Can it be done twice?

Hi,

Orit said:

Greetings, all.

In the first seven months of 1999 I lowcarbed my way down from about
155 lbs to about 105, pretty easily, doing Atkins.

Snip

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to believe this, and of course it's undermining my
willpower.

So, please, tell me stories of people who've done it twice,
successfully.

Wow, yours is a name I haven't seen in a dog's age! Welcome back.
:-)

Google has examples of two or more timers as far as lowcarbing goes,
so no need to worry that it won't work now.
The real question is can *you* work it now. It'll work if you stay on
it. You have to find your supply of "I wanna". <G>

Again, welcome back. You'll find it a bit wilder and woolier than
years ago, but the support is still here if you can hang.

Take care,
Carmen

In article <[email hidden]>, Alice

Faber said:

[...] In the meantime, if
any other aspect of low carbing makes you feel better (as is the case
for a lot of us), try not thinking about the weight as much.

BINGO! Afaic, that's an extremely important aspect of low carbing.

Mele Kalikimaka...Sue

Orit said:

Than I got pregnant, let myself be convinced to go off the WOE

(ketosis

Quoted message said:

not being good for the baby, you know, even Atkins in his book says
this), and, well, gained way too much weight

There's a HUGE difference between getting out of ketosis and quitting
Atkins. Atkins is a 4 phase process and only the first 2 phases have
you in ketosis.

Is it possible you staying on Induction and never found your CCLL by
dropping out of ketosis for a week? If you'd followed the directions
and
done that you would have had an exact count of carb grams to kick
you out of ketosis. VERY different from quitting and regaining, and
no unknown risk.

Quoted message said:

Since then I've tried several times to get back to lowcarb, but I

keep

Quoted message said:

failing. <insert long whiney explanation of why I fail>.

Loss the first time was so easy many get spoiled and are no longer
willing to put in the time and effort to go through the process again.
That appears to be happening to you. You simply have to do it the
way it is written.

Quoted message said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the
WOE for a significant amount of time, you can never go back
successfully.

It's a load of [censored] used as an excuse. The initial large loss of
Induction includes some amount of water loss when the liver is
drainined of its stored carbs and the water it was stored in. Some
people adjust to storing their carbs-plus-water all over the body
so they never get that water drop except the first time. Now here
comes the tough part: Atkins is a fat loss plan not a water loss
plan. That initial water drop is irrelevant in the long run. So what
if it never happens again, the fat loss does.

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to believe this, and of course it's undermining my

willpower.

Sure. Decide to be defeated and you are defeated.

As to quitting, ya wanna know the biggest open secret there is?
The folks who are the most successfull for the longest time are
the ones who, drum roll please Maestro, don't quit. It is so simple
it sounds stupid, but it is far from stupid. Once you start, don't
quit. If you start a second time, learn from the mistake of quitting
the first time and don' quit. If you gradually lose track and end up
off the plan without ever deciding to quit, learn from that mistake,
get back on plan and don't quit.

Orit said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the WOE
for a significant amount of time, you can never go back successfully.

you only need to apply the tiniest bit of logic to this in order to see
that it's absolute [censored].

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to believe this, and of course it's undermining my
willpower.

butch up.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

So, please, tell me stories of people who've done it twice, successfully.

Thanks,

Orit

Hi Orit, welcome back to the group! I didn't know you before, but I see
from Google that you were a regular here. I've been low-carb for 18
months, so I can't speak to the second time around factor, but I wanted
to say hi!

--
Saffire
205/147/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, all.

Quoted message said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the
WOE for a significant amount of time, you can never go back successfully.

That's sophistry -- false logic. The same thing may be said of any weight
reduction plan; it's a psychological mindset, with no physiological basis.
If you believe you can't succeed, then you're already condemned to fail.

Peter

Doug Freyburger said:

Orit said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the
WOE for a significant amount of time, you can never go back
successfully.

It's a load of [censored] used as an excuse. The initial large loss of
Induction includes some amount of water loss when the liver is
drainined of its stored carbs and the water it was stored in. Some
people adjust to storing their carbs-plus-water all over the body
so they never get that water drop except the first time. Now here
comes the tough part: Atkins is a fat loss plan not a water loss
plan. That initial water drop is irrelevant in the long run. So what
if it never happens again, the fat loss does.

Where did I write that I keep failing because I'm disappointed in the
rate of loss? I keep failing because I can't resist carby food. It has
nothing to do with how well my renewed Induction is going. (In fact, if
I manage to lose quickly, I end up "celebrating" with carbs, then
binging, then...)

Remember, I did do Atkins for the better part of a year. I lost 50 lbs
of actual fat, not water, on it. I'm not a newbie who's upset that
she's not losing as fast as she did during Induction. Give me a little
credit, OK?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to believe this, and of course it's undermining my willpower.

Sure. Decide to be defeated and you are defeated.

Well, I hadn't decided to be defeated the first time I tried. Nor the
second. Nor the third. I was certain it would be as easy as it was
back in 1999. Not in terms of how fast the weight would come off, but
of how much mental effort would be required to stick to the WOE.
But after several failures, I got to wondering.

Quoted message said:

As to quitting, ya wanna know the biggest open secret there is?
The folks who are the most successfull for the longest time are
the ones who, drum roll please Maestro, don't quit. It is so simple
it sounds stupid, but it is far from stupid. Once you start, don't
quit. If you start a second time, learn from the mistake of quitting
the first time and don' quit. If you gradually lose track and end up
off the plan without ever deciding to quit, learn from that mistake,
get back on plan and don't quit.

Thank you, Doug.

Unfortunately, having misplaced my time-machine, I'm unable to implement
your excellent advice to not have quit in the first place.

I know I need to get back on plan and not quit. I know what I "should"
do. I've tried to do it. I've failed.
Now, I'm asking for something to boost my confidence. Proof that it can
be done. Not lectures.

Thanks,

Orit

arengo said:

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, all.

Quoted message said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the
WOE for a significant amount of time, you can never go back successfully.

That's sophistry -- false logic. The same thing may be said of any weight
reduction plan; it's a psychological mindset, with no physiological basis.

I don't much care whether it's physiological or psychological. I want
to know whether anyone has overcome the hurdle, regardless of its nature.

Quoted message said:

If you believe you can't succeed, then you're already condemned to fail.

I didn't start believing it until I failed half a dozen times.
Now I need someone to prove to me that it's possible (physically and
mentally) to not fail.

Thanks,

Orit

Many athletes (weight lifters, bodybuilders, wrestlers, boxers, etc.) have
used low carb to lose weight over and over. I've gone through several cycles
successfully.

Now quit making excuses.

--
You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

arengo said:

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, all.

Quoted message said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the
WOE for a significant amount of time, you can never go back successfully.

That's sophistry -- false logic. The same thing may be said of any
weight
reduction plan; it's a psychological mindset, with no physiological
basis.

I don't much care whether it's physiological or psychological. I want to
know whether anyone has overcome the hurdle, regardless of its nature.

Quoted message said:

If you believe you can't succeed, then you're already condemned to fail.

I didn't start believing it until I failed half a dozen times.
Now I need someone to prove to me that it's possible (physically and
mentally) to not fail.

Thanks,

Orit

Orit said:

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the
WOE for a significant amount of time, you can never go back successfully.

I'm beginning to believe this, and of course it's undermining my willpower.

So, please, tell me stories of people who've done it twice, successfully.

Thanks,

Orit

Orit,

You probably remember me from years ago on this newsgroup. I was stuck
in the permanent stall at 150 lbs after a couple years of low carbing.
I ended up going off plan and gaining back all the weight I'd lost in 2001.

I currently weigh 140 lbs. So yes, my second stint of low carbing was
MORE successful than the first.

HOWEVER, in order to lose weight the second time I had to address a
physiological problem which what had been stalling me before: Insulin
Resistance. I did not lose weight low carbing the second time until I
started taking a blood sugar medication, Diovan, that apparently reduces
insulin resistance. Then the weight quite literally "melted off" for a
few months and then after that, with judicious calorie and protein
limitation, I got the rest off.

This past winter, after almost a year of maintaining, I started gaining
weight again for no reason (I was logging food intake). I went to an
endocrinologist who found that my insulin resistance had gotten a lot
worse and put me on Metformin. I got back to my goal weight effortlessly
and am still at it, despite eating more carbs and slightly more food.

So I'd suggest that you might want to visit a doctor and get your
fasting insulin level tested (or have a Glucose Tolerance Test to look
for Pre-diabetes.) If there's any question of high insulin levels, I'd
suggest trying Metformin at the same time you go back onto low carb.

I'd be willing to bet it ISN'T a character flaw. It's a metabolic
imbalance that is keeping you from being able to lose weight.

Hang in there!!!!!

--Jenny Type 2 diabetes since 1998. Hba1c 5.7%
Low Carbing for 5 years. 140 lbs (goal)

Cut the "carbs" to respond to my email address.
-----------------------------------------------------
What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes Web Site
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures site
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Where did I write that I keep failing because I'm disappointed in the rate
of loss? I keep failing because I can't resist carby food. It has
nothing to do with how well my renewed Induction is going. (In fact, if I
manage to lose quickly, I end up "celebrating" with carbs, then binging,
then...)

Ouch. All carby food, or have you managed to identify particular problems to
avoid? I'd be tempted to look for noncarby treats to celebrate with - smoked
salmon would do it for me, or a small piece of really good choc?

Nicky.

--
HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/79/72
1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

Orit said:

I don't much care whether it's physiological or psychological. I want
to know whether anyone has overcome the hurdle, regardless of its nature.

if you're not losing weight, there's about a 99% chance that you're
either eating too much or not exercising enough. stop making excuses.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Orit said:

Where did I write that I keep failing because I'm disappointed in the
rate of loss? I keep failing because I can't resist carby food. It has
nothing to do with how well my renewed Induction is going. (In fact, if
I manage to lose quickly, I end up "celebrating" with carbs, then
binging, then...)

Aha! You've identified the problem right there. Same thing happens to me
with quitting smoking. After a few months I think "Ok, I have this beat
for the long term, but right now I really want a cigarette, so I'll just
have one and that will be it." Haha, yeah, right.

Carby foods cause an unhealthy reaction for you: binging. If you were
allergic to a food that caused an unhealthy reaction like breaking out in
hives, you'd never eat it to "celebrate" right? Some people would say food
should never be used to celebrate at all, but I think it's ok every once in
a while if it's not an unhealthy food. When I treat myself, it's something
low-carb, tasty, and maybe a bit more expensive than what I usually buy.
Like king crab legs, a lobster tail, a really good steak, etc. There are
those with the philosophy that enjoying food is what makes us fat, but I
think that's [censored] since I know plenty of thin people who enjoy food. The
cool thing about low-carb, which you probably already know, is that it's a
way to lose weight that lets you enjoy food, since protein is satisfying
and fat is tasty.

When I crave something carby, it helps me to look at it and think of the
negative reaction my body will have, instead of the taste of the carby
food. It may taste good, but it won't make me feel good. If I ate it I'd
be like a dog licking a puddle of antifreeze just because it's sweet.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings, all.

In the first seven months of 1999 I lowcarbed my way down from about 155
lbs to about 105, pretty easily, doing Atkins.

Than I got pregnant, let myself be convinced to go off the WOE (ketosis
not being good for the baby, you know, even Atkins in his book says this),
and, well, gained way too much weight, which didn't come off at birth.

Since then I've tried several times to get back to lowcarb, but I keep
failing. <insert long whiney explanation of why I fail>. With every
effort I manage to stick to it about long enough to lose 5lbs, then fall
off and gain 10. Just this past year I've gained a net total of 20 lbs.
That's not funny. I'm at my highest-ever weight again (155) and I don't
know what to do.

I remember reading once that you can only LC successfully once in a
lifetime. You can stay LC forever, of course - but if you go off the WOE
for a significant amount of time, you can never go back successfully.

I'm beginning to believe this, and of course it's undermining my
willpower.

So, please, tell me stories of people who've done it twice, successfully.

Thanks,

Orit

Look.

There's nothing magical about low-carbing. It's a food plan that is based
on the way the human body uses food for energy. If it worked once, it will
work again. The same way. But you have to do it.

Sometimes I like to go and get peanuts or candy or ice cream, and I know
that these things are more or less going to affect my weight in the long
run. That's fine. I just don't do them very often. Once a month or so.
And I keep losing weight.

The science here is not complex, don't let it confuse you. Choose the
lifestyle that suits you best, and if you can find one that allows you to
lose weight and enjoy life, that would be the best thing, don't you think?

In article <[email hidden]>, Nicky
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where did I write that I keep failing because I'm disappointed in the rate
of loss? I keep failing because I can't resist carby food. It has
nothing to do with how well my renewed Induction is going. (In fact, if I
manage to lose quickly, I end up "celebrating" with carbs, then binging,
then...)

Well, God knows I'm probably about to lapse over Christmas, and then go
back on induction on 6 January, but here are some ideas:

- try actually throwing out the carby 'treats' so you can't eat them.
If you tend to stop at Starbucks for a nice muffin or frappucino, walk
to work a different route. Lead yourself not into temptation!

- is this actually a problem with portion control? One square of dark
chocolate won't knock most of us out of ketosis.

- what about a different kind of treat? Steak and bearnaise sauce?
Grilled salmon and butter? Good cheese? A low-carb sweet thang - I
make a great cheesecake with Splenda, as do many here.
--
Jane Lumley

Jane Lumley said:

- try actually throwing out the carby 'treats' so you can't eat them.
If you tend to stop at Starbucks for a nice muffin or frappucino, walk
to work a different route. Lead yourself not into temptation!

Trouble is, I have children. Which means there are carbs in the kitchen...
Not talking about junk - just normal food like bread or fruit are enough
to do me in.

Quoted message said:

- is this actually a problem with portion control? One square of dark
chocolate won't knock most of us out of ketosis.

Probably. It usually starts by eating too much of the marginally-legal
stuff (like dark chocolate, almonds, strawberries, or low-carb bread).
And then away I go.
I've tried to tell myself, "OK, so I'm doing Protein Power instead of
Atkins, that's no reason to binge on carbs", but that doesn't seem to
work.

Quoted message said:

- what about a different kind of treat? Steak and bearnaise sauce?
Grilled salmon and butter? Good cheese? A low-carb sweet thang - I
make a great cheesecake with Splenda, as do many here.

I make a great cheesecake, too. Just one gram of carb in a 1-oz piece.
And various other treats for the "sweet" or "chocolate" tooth. But I
overdo them, too.

I need to do a proper Induction, no treats. Or maybe I should go on a
meat fast. But I can't psyche myself up to that.

Thanks for your advice, Jane.

Orit

"Orit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jane Lumley said:

- try actually throwing out the carby 'treats' so you can't eat them.
If you tend to stop at Starbucks for a nice muffin or frappucino, walk
to work a different route. Lead yourself not into temptation!

Trouble is, I have children. Which means there are carbs in the

kitchen...

Quoted message said:

Not talking about junk - just normal food like bread or fruit are enough
to do me in.

Quoted message said:

- is this actually a problem with portion control? One square of dark
chocolate won't knock most of us out of ketosis.

Probably. It usually starts by eating too much of the marginally-legal
stuff (like dark chocolate, almonds, strawberries, or low-carb bread).
And then away I go.
I've tried to tell myself, "OK, so I'm doing Protein Power instead of
Atkins, that's no reason to binge on carbs", but that doesn't seem to
work.

Quoted message said:

- what about a different kind of treat? Steak and bearnaise sauce?
Grilled salmon and butter? Good cheese? A low-carb sweet thang - I
make a great cheesecake with Splenda, as do many here.

I make a great cheesecake, too. Just one gram of carb in a 1-oz piece.
And various other treats for the "sweet" or "chocolate" tooth. But I
overdo them, too.

I need to do a proper Induction, no treats. Or maybe I should go on a
meat fast. But I can't psyche myself up to that.

Thanks for your advice, Jane.

No one here is going to be able to tell you what to do you make dieting work
for you a second time. You're simply going to have to find the
determination to make it work. Think of the reasons why you need to do this
and focus in on making it work for you. There's a brain in your head, so
figure out what you need to do and DO IT. If one thing doesn't work, try
something else.

In article <[email hidden]>, Orit
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- try actually throwing out the carby 'treats' so you can't eat them.
If you tend to stop at Starbucks for a nice muffin or frappucino, walk
to work a different route. Lead yourself not into temptation!

Trouble is, I have children. Which means there are carbs in the kitchen...
Not talking about junk - just normal food like bread or fruit are enough to do
me in.

I sympathise; I have children too and I also do all the baking for them.
I do think planned treats help me here. I can have one piece of lowcarb
bread as a reward for baking four batches of bread, cookies etc, or six
nuts or whatever.

Thing is that as I well know, you can actually psyche yourself into
eating by giving yourself food as 'rewards'. Try giving yourself a non-
food reward - yes, why not? Like a new book or a new dress or a trip or
a solitary walk.... whatever you love that isn't food.
--
Jane Lumley