Cadence/Power or whatever.

Hi Vic, yes you will read all sorts of conflicting ideas as to what works and what doesn't. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Climbing is all about power and weight - nothing else. If your　ｗeight is already at your optimum level, then the only way you are going to improve　your climbing is to increase your power.
You will see people say just climbing hills will improve your climbing. Maybe a little but not much. I was climbing the same 15% hill week after week, year after year and wasn't getting much better - then I found this forum. Through losing nearly 15 kilos and doubling my FTP (power you can sustain for 1 hour -just!) without doing any training on the hills, my climbing ability has improved immeasurably.
You need to do structured training including 10-30 minute L4 intervals to improve your FTP. Later, some VO2Max L5 intervals say, 4x5minutes (of course at a higher wattage than the above intervals) This works on a different energy system and will help you when you have a 5 minute climb (or 5 mins left). You know you won't blow out. And finally the icing on the cake - the L6 and 7
intervals. But they come later.
Hope this helps. TYSON 😉

Sillyoldtwit said:

Hi Vic, yes you will read all sorts of conflicting ideas as to what works and what doesn't. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Climbing is all about power and weight - nothing else. If your　ｗeight is already at your optimum level, then the only way you are going to improve　your climbing is to increase your power.
You will see people say just climbing hills will improve your climbing. Maybe a little but not much. I was climbing the same 15% hill week after week, year after year and wasn't getting much better - then I found this forum. Through losing nearly 15 kilos and doubling my FTP (power you can sustain for 1 hour -just!) without doing any training on the hills, my climbing ability has improved immeasurably.
You need to structured training including 10-30 minute L4 intervals to improve your FTP. Later, some VO2Max L5 intervals say, 4x5minutes (of course at a higher wattage than the above intervals) This works on a different energy system and will help you when you have a 5 minute climb (or 5 left). You know you won't blow out. And finally the icing on the cake - the L6 and 7
intervals. But they come later.
Hope this helps. TYSON 😉

Well al this would help if I new what half the terms were.

1st. what is L4,L5,L6,L7 etc.?

2nd how do I find out what my VO2 Max

losing weight seems to be the only consistant answer to bettering my chances on the hills. When i started I weigh a good 182+ now I am 175 - my goal is 166 walking around and 163 racing weight - if that makes sense. carry on

vic32amg said:

3. And finally for someone like me who is hooked pretty badly and enjoys training but is still very early in the biking, should I even worry about this stuff.

No, not at all. My suggestion would be to search for the local riding clubs in your area and get involved in some group rides. You'll learn tons about the sport, will meet people to share the sport with, and will improve your enjoyment (and probably even help you know where you stand vs. other riders and what your strengths/weaknesses are 😉 ). All that stuff is far more important than trying to figure out what your cadence should be or what Lance did to change his. Good luck. 🙂

to be honest i'm not so concerned with what he did unless its going to help me.

I notice many on the forums talk about high cadence , that is why I mentioned it. But I have never been one to follow the herd I guess.

I mean high cadence can't be the answer for everyone right?

Even the 'normal' cadence range of ~85-95ish rpm may seem high to someone just starting out, so it might be necessary to distinguish what we're talking about when we say 'high' cadence.

The 'normal' cadence range allows one to ride comfortably for hours with less chance for pain or injury in the knees. There's a lot of debate about additional benefits (or if there are even any benefits) associated with certain, more narrow ranges, but that's the part I was suggesting you not worry about at this point (or at all, really).

The bottom line is that cadence/gearing is not a magical formula for giving you more power on hills, more speed on flats, etc. etc. as you inquired about in your original post.

frenchyge said:

Even the 'normal' cadence range of ~85-95ish rpm may seem high to someone just starting out, so it might be necessary to distinguish what we're talking about when we say 'high' cadence.

The 'normal' cadence range allows one to ride comfortably for hours with less chance for pain or injury in the knees. There's a lot of debate about additional benefits (or if there are even any benefits) associated with certain, more narrow ranges, but that's the part I was suggesting you not worry about at this point (or at all, really).

The bottom line is that cadence/gearing is not a magical formula for giving you more power on hills, more speed on flats, etc. etc. as you inquired about in your original post.

Frenchie thats exactly the answer I was looking for. But what is your opinion as to what helps improve on hills? simply weight loss and heart. i guess I fi say hills I am incorrect. what is your opinion on improving on power - ?

thanks and your response is very much appreciated.

carry on.

vic32amg said:

what helps improve on hills? simply weight loss and heart.

Tyson has it right (post #2). If you want to climb better (i.e., faster), you need to increase your power/weight ratio by either increasing the numerator or decreasing the denominator (or both, as Tyson did). Increasing power results from stressing specific systems through targeted high-intensity efforts. The best single source I have seen for understanding how to increase power is the recent book by Hunter Allen and Andy Coggan, Training and Racing with a Power Meter. Even if you don't have a power meter, you can use this book because all training levels are cross-referenced by heart rate and perceived exertion. It will likely be the best use of ~$20 + a few hours studying time you will spend on cycling. The other option is to get a coach, such as Ric Stern. Both are good options and neither approach is going to spend much time on cadence.

RapDaddyo said:

Tyson has it right (post #2). If you want to climb better (i.e., faster), you need to increase your power/weight ratio by either increasing the numerator or decreasing the denominator (or both, as Tyson did). Increasing power results from stressing specific systems through targeted high-intensity efforts. The best single source I have seen for understanding how to increase power is the recent book by Hunter Allen and Andy Coggan, Training and Racing with a Power Meter. Even if you don't have a power meter, you can use this book because all training levels are cross-referenced by heart rate and perceived exertion. It will likely be the best use of ~$20 + a few hours studying time you will spend on cycling. The other option is to get a coach, such as Ric Stern. Both are good options and neither approach is going to spend much time on cadence.

Thanks, the advice is much appreciated. Also it's nice to hear other answers other than "more cadence", I think for alot of ams/beginners , you hear alot about "Lance" and every beginner I talk to , many aburning with this idea that cadence will solve any lack there of power.

No offense to what Lance has done and it obviously works for him, but what works for him doesn't always mean it willl work for me. The answer from Ty/Rapo are exactly what I am looking for as alternative training other than this phil of cadence, cadence, cadence. ..

Of course cadence matters but if i'm spinning 150 rpms and going 6mph I think I would certainy be counter productive. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

thanks
Vic

Vic,

You'll find a post on this forum called 'It's killing me but ...'. I'd seriously advocate taking the time to read it (all of it!) - it will teach you about the terms that you've read in this thread (eg "what is L4?"😉, and how to train more effectively (eg Tyson's comment that although he trains on a trainer, his hill climbing's improved out of sight).

Personally, I'm a similar age / slightly smaller than you, and working from the knowledge I've gleaned from the thread, whilst hard at times, has had great results.

Enjoy,

Rob

RobM said:

Vic,

You'll find a post on this forum called 'It's killing me but ...'. I'd seriously advocate taking the time to read it (all of it!) - it will teach you about the terms that you've read in this thread (eg "what is L4?"😉, and how to train more effectively (eg Tyson's comment that although he trains on a trainer, his hill climbing's improved out of sight).

Personally, I'm a similar age / slightly smaller than you, and working from the knowledge I've gleaned from the thread, whilst hard at times, has had great results.

Enjoy,

Rob

will check it out for sure ( yes the whole thing )

thanks Rob

Much appreciated