cadence on the trainer

OzCableguy said:

Is it normal to have a much higher cadence on a trainer than on the road?
On the road I seem to average around 75-85 rpm on a given route while on the
trainer I'll naturally spin at 100-110. The truly weird thing is if I try
that on the road I'll be bouncing in the saddle unless it's during a sprint
or powering up a hill.

I seriously doubt you're getting 110 rpm cadence up a hill. Check again.

Quoted message said:

Trying to get my cadence up has been a sticking point for me. I seem to have
a major problem with dropping down a gear or two... but I must say the
(HIIT) work on the trainer is starting to pay off in that regard and even my
average speeds are starting to rise as a result as well. :-)

Try doing a cadence of 90 where possible for short periods, then drop back
down. Work to extend this to a minute at a time. From there it will be
easier.

Second, spin up in a lower gear to 95, then gear up one and maintain. Do
this when you have to slow, say making a U-turn or after turning a corner.

BTW, I doubt you're getting 110 routinely on a trainer. Check again.

One way to work on higher cadence on the trainer is to watch a bike race on
your TV or PC and try to match their cadence. You'll always be a little
faster, maybe 5-10rpm than on the road.

HJJ said:

OzCableguy said:

Is it normal to have a much higher cadence on a trainer than on the road?
On the road I seem to average around 75-85 rpm on a given route while on the
trainer I'll naturally spin at 100-110. The truly weird thing is if I try
that on the road I'll be bouncing in the saddle unless it's during a sprint
or powering up a hill.

I seriously doubt you're getting 110 rpm cadence up a hill. Check again.

Why? I'm near enough always 100+ when climbing a hill. That's what
gears are for.
--
Cheers
Euan

Euan said:

Why? I'm near enough always 100+ when climbing a hill. That's what
gears are for.

That's nothing! Everyone who has ever done a BR with TimC will confirm he hits 350rpm when throwing the chain down a few rings... 😉

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:26:12 -0500

HJJ said:

I seriously doubt you're getting 110 rpm cadence up a hill. Check again.

I get 100-120 up a hill especially if I get a running start. I can't
maintain it for long because I run out of puff, but I do it
consistently up a couple of hills on the way to work.

Zebee

gplama said:

Euan said:

Why? I'm near enough always 100+ when climbing a hill. That's what
gears are for.

That's nothing! Everyone who has ever done a BR with TimC will confirm
he hits 350rpm when throwing the chain down a few rings... 😉

That can't be confirmed, his legs are moving faster than any cadence
metre could track.

DaveB

HJJ said:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:59:26 GMT, "OzCableguy"

Quoted message said:

Is it normal to have a much higher cadence on a trainer than on the road?
On the road I seem to average around 75-85 rpm on a given route while on the
trainer I'll naturally spin at 100-110. The truly weird thing is if I try
that on the road I'll be bouncing in the saddle unless it's during a sprint
or powering up a hill.

I seriously doubt you're getting 110 rpm cadence up a hill. Check again.

Quoted message said:

Trying to get my cadence up has been a sticking point for me. I seem to have
a major problem with dropping down a gear or two... but I must say the
(HIIT) work on the trainer is starting to pay off in that regard and even my
average speeds are starting to rise as a result as well. :-)

Try doing a cadence of 90 where possible for short periods, then drop back
down. Work to extend this to a minute at a time. From there it will be
easier.

Second, spin up in a lower gear to 95, then gear up one and maintain. Do
this when you have to slow, say making a U-turn or after turning a corner.

BTW, I doubt you're getting 110 routinely on a trainer. Check again.

One way to work on higher cadence on the trainer is to watch a bike race on
your TV or PC and try to match their cadence. You'll always be a little
faster, maybe 5-10rpm than on the road.

not getting 110 routinely on a trainer - easy stuff! You must have your trainer cranked up to the max plus wedged against a brick, brakes rubbing the rim and on the biggest gear on the bike HJJ.

"HJJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:59:26 GMT, "OzCableguy"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
BTW, I doubt you're getting 110 routinely on a trainer. Check again.

Yep, checked and confirmed. I go around 120 in the sprint intervals (Max.
hits 150+ during the final), my recovery intervals are in the mid 90's but
in the lead up intervals I'm definitely in the 100-110 range.
On the road I found out fairly early on that spinning up hills was way
easier than stomping away in too high a gear so I guess I've just got used
to doing it under those conditions.

Thanks for the advice about doing a cadence of 90 for short periods then
dropping back down. I'll definitely give that a go. I need to reduce the
anaerobic intensity of my road cycling so I can go for longer, burn fat more
efficiently and recover faster (so I can do it more often to supplement my
other training without burning out). Being a big bloke that isn't always
easy as the temptation is to maintain speed which will quite often mean
using my leg power instead of my lungs.

While there's less resistance on the trainer without head wind etc I'm not
sure that that's a factor because I can always drop down a few gears to
reduce resistance on the road. However, doing that still doesn't seem to get
me spinning at the same rates as easily and naturally as I do on the
trainer. I'm guessing it must have something to do with my size and weight?
(120kg @ 18% bf)

--
www.ozcableguy.com
www.oztechnologies.com

OzCableguy said:

"HJJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:59:26 GMT, "OzCableguy"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
BTW, I doubt you're getting 110 routinely on a trainer. Check again.

Yep, checked and confirmed. I go around 120 in the sprint intervals (Max.
hits 150+ during the final), my recovery intervals are in the mid 90's but
in the lead up intervals I'm definitely in the 100-110 range.
On the road I found out fairly early on that spinning up hills was way
easier than stomping away in too high a gear so I guess I've just got used
to doing it under those conditions.

I have my trainer cranked about two turns past snug and you can't really
turn the pedals in x13 with your hand. I routinely get 20-21mph for 45 min,
top speed for one minute of 37mph. However I have trouble maintaining over
100 cadence for more than five minutes. Normally I ride at 85-90.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the advice about doing a cadence of 90 for short periods then
dropping back down. I'll definitely give that a go.

Think of it as 'spinning up'. Downshift until you get the cadence about
90-95 and then upshift to the next harder gear and maintain. Some rides
I'll focus entirely on high cadence and ignore the mph. It's difficult,
since my route is hilly.

Quoted message said:

I need to reduce the anaerobic intensity of my road cycling so I can go for
longer,

Same here.

Quoted message said:

burn fat more efficiently and recover faster (so I can do it more often to
supplement my other training without burning out).

Well you're always burning some fat, some glucose - the energy systems
don't suddenly start and stop.

Quoted message said:

Being a big bloke that isn't always easy as the temptation is to maintain
speed which will quite often mean using my leg power instead of my lungs.

I'm continually surprised as how much cycling develops the legs. I have
much more development from riding than I ever got from years of squatting.
Wish I'd have known then how good biking was for that, heh.

Quoted message said:

While there's less resistance on the trainer without head wind etc I'm not
sure that that's a factor because I can always drop down a few gears to
reduce resistance on the road. However, doing that still doesn't seem to get
me spinning at the same rates as easily and naturally as I do on the
trainer. I'm guessing it must have something to do with my size and weight?
(120kg @ 18% bf)

I'm surprised you have no trouble spinning over 100 on hills and can't
maintain >90 elsewhere.

Good luck and good training to you.

HJJ said:

OzCableguy said:

"HJJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:59:26 GMT, "OzCableguy"
<[email hidden]> wrote:
BTW, I doubt you're getting 110 routinely on a trainer. Check again.

Yep, checked and confirmed. I go around 120 in the sprint intervals (Max.
hits 150+ during the final), my recovery intervals are in the mid 90's but
in the lead up intervals I'm definitely in the 100-110 range.
On the road I found out fairly early on that spinning up hills was way
easier than stomping away in too high a gear so I guess I've just got used
to doing it under those conditions.

I have my trainer cranked about two turns past snug and you can't really
turn the pedals in x13 with your hand. I routinely get 20-21mph for 45 min,
top speed for one minute of 37mph. However I have trouble maintaining over
100 cadence for more than five minutes. Normally I ride at 85-90.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the advice about doing a cadence of 90 for short periods then
dropping back down. I'll definitely give that a go.

Think of it as 'spinning up'. Downshift until you get the cadence about
90-95 and then upshift to the next harder gear and maintain. Some rides
I'll focus entirely on high cadence and ignore the mph. It's difficult,
since my route is hilly.

Quoted message said:

I need to reduce the anaerobic intensity of my road cycling so I can go for
longer,

Same here.

Quoted message said:

burn fat more efficiently and recover faster (so I can do it more often to
supplement my other training without burning out).

Well you're always burning some fat, some glucose - the energy systems
don't suddenly start and stop.

Quoted message said:

Being a big bloke that isn't always easy as the temptation is to maintain
speed which will quite often mean using my leg power instead of my lungs.

I'm continually surprised as how much cycling develops the legs. I have
much more development from riding than I ever got from years of squatting.
Wish I'd have known then how good biking was for that, heh.

Quoted message said:

While there's less resistance on the trainer without head wind etc I'm not
sure that that's a factor because I can always drop down a few gears to
reduce resistance on the road. However, doing that still doesn't seem to get
me spinning at the same rates as easily and naturally as I do on the
trainer. I'm guessing it must have something to do with my size and weight?
(120kg @ 18% bf)

I'm surprised you have no trouble spinning over 100 on hills and can't
maintain >90 elsewhere.

It depends on the duration of the hillclimb. Untrained legs will not
be able to spin high cadences for a long time, but can do so for short
intervals, which is what you do more on a spinner, or a short hill
effort, than on a general road ride. I can hold 204rpm on 172.5mm
cranks for around 10 seconds, and 267rpm on 105mm(!) cranks, but I
generally ride around at 85-95 rpm on longer rides and around 95 during
a criterium, depending on the race scenario.

Spinning >90rpm may not be ideal anyway, there's no such thing as "the"
ideal cadence, different bodies work better at different rpm's. It's
nigh-on impossible to know what one's ideal cadence is, even with power
testing, as your responses change according to training and adaptation,
you can't isolate the variables enough to know for sure.

Moderately high cadence intervals may well be a benefit - I'm not sure
of the response this would elicit, but maybe 95rpm for 10, then 15,
then 20 mins (increasing every week, 2 or three sessions a week) may be
worth a try to drive up adaptation to higher cadences, it's not just
muscular, training nerves to fire at that speed for a long time has to
occur.

(*still* waiting for the powertap to arrive .. it's been on backorder
for MONTHS!)

"HJJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:28:44 GMT, "OzCableguy"

Quoted message said:

I have my trainer cranked about two turns past snug and you can't really
turn the pedals in x13 with your hand. I routinely get 20-21mph for 45
min,
top speed for one minute of 37mph.

That'd be one factor. My trainer is a non-adjustable cheapie and doesn't
have a huge amount of resistence. But by duplicating that resistence by
using a lower gear on the road, what I find is if I try to spin at 100+ rpm
on the road I'll be accelerating. If I continue I'll need to change up. If I
back off to maintain that speed I'll start bouncing in the saddle. For some
reason the trainer (well this one at least) keeps me in that zone where I'm
able to maintain a high rpm without accelerating.
I might try a couple of extra turns on the roller to see what happens...

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can hold 204rpm on 172.5mm
cranks for around 10 seconds, and 267rpm on 105mm(!) cranks,

Crikey!

OzCableguy said:

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can hold 204rpm on 172.5mm
cranks for around 10 seconds, and 267rpm on 105mm(!) cranks,

Crikey!

That's not as impressive (or useful!) as it seems. 105mm cranks are
very small, and that was done on a 'bent on a spin trainer while
warming
up at an HPV race whilst bored 🙂

The 204 rpm also, isn't that impressive, it's done on a slight downhill
or with a tailwind (or leadout ....) in a stupidly easy gear. We do a
drill sometimes at a training session I run called "stupid high
cadence" where we race a lap of a velodrone in a 39:25. 5-10 second
bursts and then 5-10 seconds of recovery to try and keep speed up. Not
very useful, but quite a lot of fun!

Bleve said:

OzCableguy said:

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can hold 204rpm on 172.5mm
cranks for around 10 seconds, and 267rpm on 105mm(!) cranks,

Crikey!

That's not as impressive (or useful!) as it seems. 105mm cranks are
very small, and that was done on a 'bent on a spin trainer while
warming
up at an HPV race whilst bored 🙂

The 204 rpm also, isn't that impressive, it's done on a slight downhill
or with a tailwind (or leadout ....) in a stupidly easy gear. We do a
drill sometimes at a training session I run called "stupid high
cadence" where we race a lap of a velodrone in a 39:25. 5-10 second
bursts and then 5-10 seconds of recovery to try and keep speed up. Not
very useful, but quite a lot of fun!

Still seems impressive to me. I changed the top gear (small cog) on my
cassette from the 13 it came with back to a 12 tooth because I was bouncing
around so much when I hit about 100 rpm on a downhill slope.

So 204 rpm sounds bloody amazing. (Do we get any free coaching on the
internet?)

Cheers,

Vince

Vincent Patrick said:

Bleve wrote:

Quoted message said:

So 204 rpm sounds bloody amazing. (Do we get any free coaching on the
internet?)

There's loads of free stuff on my website 🙂

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(*still* waiting for the powertap to arrive .. it's been on backorder
for MONTHS!)

I have been using a Powertap for the past two and a half weeks with this lab
trial that I am participating in and I have to say that I am pretty
impressed with it. I like the fact that you have three lines on the display
and you can select what you want to look at.....I generally have Watts,
Cadence, Heart Rate for the constant power sessions and Watts, Cadence, Time
for the intervals sessions. I haven't really been using the speed or
distance functions as I don't see them as being relevant for wind trainer
work.

It has been pretty interesting to be able to track and compare the sessions
that I am doing and see how the sessions I am doing now compare to the ones
I was doing 2.5 weeks ago. For example, in the first interval session that
I did on 30 Nov (8 x 5min intervals with 1 min rest between) I was averaging
about 315W for the 5 min intervals and on the same session that I did today
I averaged a bit over 340W.

I was also interested to see that my heart rate was very similar for the two
sessions.....got up to about 150bpm on first interval then down to about 115
for recovery.....for each subsequent interval it got up to about 4bpm higher
for each interval, peaking at 175bpm on the second last interval and only
recovering back to 150bpm before the last one.

Lab trial finishes on Tuesday (only 2 biopsies to go).....can't wait to stop
eating so many carbs and to be able to get the new track bike out for a
ride.

Gags

Gags said:

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(*still* waiting for the powertap to arrive .. it's been on backorder
for MONTHS!)

I have been using a Powertap for the past two and a half weeks with this lab
trial that I am participating in and I have to say that I am pretty
impressed with it. I like the fact that you have three lines on the display
and you can select what you want to look at.....I generally have Watts,
Cadence, Heart Rate for the constant power sessions and Watts, Cadence, Time
for the intervals sessions. I haven't really been using the speed or
distance functions as I don't see them as being relevant for wind trainer
work.

The one I'm getting is the SL 2.4 (fully wireless), this is so I can
swap it between bikes quickly and safely. I'll be using it on a lot of
my riders, and hiring it out. Saris have been *very* slow in
delivering, and I have one on order (Trek are the Aust distributor,
took over from BI recently when BI got out of bike bits)