Buytl vs. Latex

Bob said:

(note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)

It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
quality of butyl ?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
invalid test on my part?

No.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Schwalbe offers an explanation of the phenomenen

http://www.schwalbe.com/index.pl?modus=lang&punkt=267&abstract=1171&bereich=&einsatzbereich=&produktgruppe=

Ivar

Bob said:

(note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)

It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
quality of butyl ? Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
invalid test on my part?

Thanks,

No, you are correct. latex bleed about 20 psi per day, butyl much
slower.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Bob said:

(note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)

It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
quality of butyl ? Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
invalid test on my part?

Thanks,

No, you are correct. latex bleed about 20 psi per day, butyl much
slower.

Thanks. After posting I did the thing I should have done before
posting and googled it.

As a follow-on... some folks claim that you can feel the difference
between a latex tubular and a butyl tubie. Concurrently, expensive
tubies seem to use latex tubes. I know latex is a little lighter...
but is there any truth to the latex based tubie ridding that much
better than a butyl tubie? Wouldn't it be the better tire's casing be
more the reason than the type of tube?

I know latex has pinch advantages... I'm not really interested in that
point or starting a new clincher vs. tubie thread. Just looking to
explore butyl vs. latex in a tubie.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Bob said:

(note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)

It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
quality of butyl ? Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
invalid test on my part?

No, you are correct. latex bleed about 20 psi per day, butyl much
slower.

I've always wondered how short/hilly a ride has to be for the weight
savings of latex tubes to be a performance enhancement. If you're
doing a flat century, the extra couple ounces would save you almost no
time, but finishing with 3-4psi less in your tires would cost you time
(not a huge amount, but this is a newsgroup, so I'm gettin' all
theoretical on y'all).

A criterium? No doubt, latex would be an enhancement (though again, a
very, very tiny one).

Hill climb? Yep, they'd help, at least until the pressure loss
increased the rolling resistance enough to offset the weight savings.

I'm sure there is someone out there who'd done some modeling to come
up with a profile that tells 'em when to use latex and when to use
butyl... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hill climb? Yep, they'd help, at least until the pressure loss
increased the rolling resistance enough to offset the weight savings.

Presumably at some point the climb is steep enough that the pressure drop
from the tyre is matched by the atmospheric drop, making the tyre behave as
if at the original pressure... No, I'm not really being serious. Yes, I do
think latex is a silly material for use in inner tubes and tubs.

Skippy

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Bob said:

(note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)

It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
quality of butyl ? Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
invalid test on my part?

No, you are correct. latex bleed about 20 psi per day, butyl much
slower.

I've always wondered how short/hilly a ride has to be for the weight
savings of latex tubes to be a performance enhancement. If you're
doing a flat century, the extra couple ounces would save you almost no
time, but finishing with 3-4psi less in your tires would cost you time
(not a huge amount, but this is a newsgroup, so I'm gettin' all
theoretical on y'all).

Since Jobst points out that the magic of latex is a certain resistance
to pinch flats (basically because it is willing to stretch more before
it breaks), I've seriously considered running latex tubes in clincher
cyclocross tires, solely so I can run lower pressures without pinch
flats.

In response to the question "why not just run tubies?" well, I have
clincher rims, and I have clincher tires, and this is my ghettocross
project:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/tags/motobecane/

Is that crazy? Anyone?

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Bob said:

...
I know latex has pinch advantages... I'm not really interested in that
point or starting a new clincher vs. tubie thread. Just looking to
explore butyl vs. latex in a tubie.

We could always review the discussion about what quantity of petroleum
based lubricants will reach the tube and will the lower resistance of
latex tubes to petroleum solvents be a detriment.

--
Tom Sherman

Bob said:

Just looking to explore butyl vs. latex in a tubie.

Family newsgroup, Bob.

Bill "for the Squidster" S.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Bob wrote:
> (note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)
>
> It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
> quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
> quality of butyl ? Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
> invalid test on my part?

No, you are correct. latex bleed about 20 psi per day, butyl much
slower.

I've always wondered how short/hilly a ride has to be for the weight
savings of latex tubes to be a performance enhancement. If you're
doing a flat century, the extra couple ounces would save you almost no
time, but finishing with 3-4psi less in your tires would cost you time
(not a huge amount, but this is a newsgroup, so I'm gettin' all
theoretical on y'all).

Since Jobst points out that the magic of latex is a certain resistance
to pinch flats (basically because it is willing to stretch more before
it breaks), I've seriously considered running latex tubes in clincher
cyclocross tires, solely so I can run lower pressures without pinch
flats.

In response to the question "why not just run tubies?" well, I have
clincher rims, and I have clincher tires, and this is my ghettocross
project:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/tags/motobecane/

Is that crazy? Anyone?

Is it crazy enough? Follow your star.

--
Michael Press

-snip-

Ryan Cousineau said:

Since Jobst points out that the magic of latex is a certain resistance
to pinch flats (basically because it is willing to stretch more before
it breaks), I've seriously considered running latex tubes in clincher
cyclocross tires, solely so I can run lower pressures without pinch
flats.
In response to the question "why not just run tubies?" well, I have
clincher rims, and I have clincher tires, and this is my ghettocross
project:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/tags/motobecane/
Is that crazy? Anyone?

Cute Motobécane Gran Touring. 1971? 72?

Sure, you're an observant rider. I for one, look forward to
your report after changing to latex tubes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Bob wrote:
> (note up front that I'm somewhat tire ignorant)
>
> It seems to me the all the butyl tubed tubulars I've had bleed air
> quite a bit slower than the latex tubulars. Is this an inherent
> quality of butyl ? Or just incorrect observation of a statistically
> invalid test on my part?

No, you are correct. latex bleed about 20 psi per day, butyl much
slower.

I've always wondered how short/hilly a ride has to be for the weight
savings of latex tubes to be a performance enhancement. If you're
doing a flat century, the extra couple ounces would save you almost no
time, but finishing with 3-4psi less in your tires would cost you time
(not a huge amount, but this is a newsgroup, so I'm gettin' all
theoretical on y'all).

Since Jobst points out that the magic of latex is a certain resistance
to pinch flats (basically because it is willing to stretch more before
it breaks), I've seriously considered running latex tubes in clincher
cyclocross tires, solely so I can run lower pressures without pinch
flats.

In response to the question "why not just run tubies?" well, I have
clincher rims, and I have clincher tires, and this is my ghettocross
project:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/tags/motobecane/

Is that crazy? Anyone?

As in crazier than that bike already is? Dude follow your vision.

As for the sewup rims you don't have, keep an eye out, it's just sick how cheap
you can buy wheelsets that aren't fashionable enough for the yuppy freds and
tri's.

Ron

In article <[email hidden]>,

A Muzi said:

-snip-

Ryan Cousineau said:

Since Jobst points out that the magic of latex is a certain resistance
to pinch flats (basically because it is willing to stretch more before
it breaks), I've seriously considered running latex tubes in clincher
cyclocross tires, solely so I can run lower pressures without pinch
flats.
In response to the question "why not just run tubies?" well, I have
clincher rims, and I have clincher tires, and this is my ghettocross
project:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/tags/motobecane/
Is that crazy? Anyone?

Cute Motobécane Gran Touring. 1971? 72?

Good catch. You probably know the year better than I, though the guesses
you have sound like what my research uncovered.

When I bought the bike, it had a french drivetrain, which I believe is a
strong indicator it's early 70s. Do you know what year Motobecane
started using Suntour? I understand it was mid/late 70s.

This was a garage sale find in 2004. It was in rough shape when I bought
it, and it got turned into a 'cross bike by virtue of its good frame
clearance (32 mm knobbies fit without a problem, though fenders+32 would
be tricky).

Scary, but I'm going to upgrade it to 9-speed (it's Sora 8 right now),
simply because I got a good deal on a shifter.

Quoted message said:

Sure, you're an observant rider. I for one, look forward to
your report after changing to latex tubes.

The fun part should be finding a local source for 32mm latex tubes.
Let's see if anyone has 'em in stock. I'm not worried about being
observant: the latex will be a race setup, so I'll just inflate them
when I get to the race, and they only have to last two hours.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article <[email hidden]>,

RonSonic said:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 02:19:56 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since Jobst points out that the magic of latex is a certain resistance
to pinch flats (basically because it is willing to stretch more before
it breaks), I've seriously considered running latex tubes in clincher
cyclocross tires, solely so I can run lower pressures without pinch
flats.

In response to the question "why not just run tubies?" well, I have
clincher rims, and I have clincher tires, and this is my ghettocross
project:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/tags/motobecane/

Is that crazy? Anyone?

As in crazier than that bike already is? Dude follow your vision.

As for the sewup rims you don't have, keep an eye out, it's just sick how
cheap
you can buy wheelsets that aren't fashionable enough for the yuppy freds and
tri's.

Ron

Quite so. It's the cost of tubular 'cross tires (probably more than a
tubular wheelset) that scares me off.

I have a tubular-loving friend, and I believe his current cutoff for
buying used tubular wheelsets is about $50. He does not go home
empty-handed.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos