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butterfly drills

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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13 September 2003
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13 September 2003
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Catherine
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  1. My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that my
    stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of the
    water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband videotaped my
    fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse (must be genetic).
    Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on re-entry, their entire bodies
    flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out there that you could point me to, so
    that we could all practice them together?

    Catherine

    --

    ~~~~~~~~~^o~~~~~~~~~~

  2. Catherine left this mess on Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:32:53 -0800 for The Way to clean up:

    Quoted message said:


    My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that my
    stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of the
    water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband videotaped my
    fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse (must be
    genetic). Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on re-entry, their
    entire bodies flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out there that you could
    point me to, so that we could all practice them together?

    (thinking)

    How late are you talking, because it doesn't seem that "shouldn't" to me?

    Your arms drop back which forces you up, you breathe and your arms continue...this is a grey area
    until you describe it further...

    Tao te Carl

  3. Catherine Here are some thoughts on Fly, taken from my book, Swimming Made Easy.

    FISHLIKE BUTTERFLY Stay long, low, and relaxed. The secret of efficient, effortless butterfly is to
    stay close to the surface at all times; don't fight gravity! Keep your head, hands, and shoulders as
    close to the surface as possible on the stroke and recovery. Imagine you are swimming under a very
    low ceiling. Breathe forward, not up, keeping your head in a neutral position. Sweep the arms (on
    recovery), and land forward (after recovery). The deeper you dive on the re-entry, the shorter will
    be your body-line and the steeper you will have to climb back out Next in importance is to keep your
    head aligned with your spine and to look down slightly throughout the stroke. Breathe without
    raising or jutting your chin; breathe inside the line of the stroke. Drill and swim with little or
    no overt kick. Your legs should be driven by body movement -- chest pulses -- not by thigh muscles.
    Bottom line: Swim butterfly with your body, not with your arms and legs.

    How to Know if You've Got It Right Body/Head Position · Maintain a long, balanced, supple bodyline.
    · Swim as close to the surface - both above and below - as possible; channel your energy forward,
    not up and down. · Keep your head as close as possible to a neutral position at all times; use a
    "sneaky breath." Legs · Minimize overt kicking and leg bend; let the legs follow core-body
    undulation. Arms · Land forward on entry; don't hammer down or dive down after recovery. · Anchor
    hands at corners then move your body over your hands. · Sweep the hands in high on your chin, then
    immediately flare them out for a "karate-chop" exit. · Recover the arms in a relaxed, sweeping
    motion. Breathing · Breathe early in the pull, without raising or jutting the chin. · Look down
    slightly ("sneaky" breath).

    You can find info on our video of Butterfly drills at www.totalimmersion.net

  4. I would suggest you to get the DVD from USA Swimming featuring Michaeel Phelp. I have seen Phelp
    swim in persons for several years at Eastern Classic and always amazed by how at ease when he swim
    the fly. The DVD shows several drills that may help to establish the proper body undulation for fly.

    Catherine <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that my
    stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of the
    water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband videotaped my
    fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse (must be
    genetic). Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on re-entry, their
    entire bodies flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out there that you could
    point me to, so that we could all practice them together?

    Catherine

  5. [email hidden] left this mess on 05 Mar 2003 22:37:30 GMT for The Way to clean up:

    Quoted message said:


    FISHLIKE BUTTERFLY Stay long, low, and relaxed. The secret of efficient, effortless butterfly is to
    stay close to the surface at all times; don't fight gravity!

    Terry, not for nothing, but this is a logical non-sequitor. Don't you mean, "don't fight buoyancy"?

    Tao te Carl

  6. de Valois said:

    Catherine left this mess on Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:32:53 -0800 for The Way to clean up:

    Quoted message said:


    My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that
    my stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of
    the water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband
    videotaped my fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse
    (must be genetic). Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on re-entry,
    their entire bodies flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out there that
    you could point me to, so that we could all practice them together?

    (thinking)

    How late are you talking, because it doesn't seem that "shouldn't" to me?

    Your arms drop back which forces you up, you breathe and your arms continue...this is a grey area
    until you describe it further...

    Tao te Carl

    I know how it's *supposed* to look, and thought I was doing it that way but the videotape showed me
    that I wasn't.

    The way I do fly, my arms drop back under water forcing my head up for a breathe but then my head
    doesn't go down fast enough so that as my arms swing forward my head enters the water only slightly
    before my hands do. (I should admit that I haven't been swimming that much lately, about only once
    per week. I think I do fly better when I'm in better shape but maybe I'm only flattering myself)

    The way my kids do fly is to have their arms come out of the water at the back end of the stroke
    slightly before the head comes up. Their tilted body position brings them almost to a dead stop
    before the head and hands enter the water simultaneously. If you've ever seen little kids learning
    fly, this is how so many of them do it. My son is 9 so he has an excuse, but my daughter is 13 and
    ought to be a little more coordinated by this age.

    Catherine

    --

    ~~~~~~~~~^o~~~~~~~~~~

  7. Totalswimm said:

    Catherine Here are some thoughts on Fly, taken from my book, Swimming Made Easy.

    FISHLIKE BUTTERFLY (snip)

    Quoted message said:

    Next in importance is to keep your head aligned with your spine and to look down slightly
    throughout the stroke. Breathe without raising or jutting your chin; breathe inside the line of
    the stroke. Drill and swim with little or no overt kick. Your legs should be driven by body
    movement -- chest pulses -- not by thigh muscles. Bottom line: Swim butterfly with your body, not
    with your arms and legs.

    I guess my head alignment is the real problem. I do pop it up (jut my chin, that is) to take a
    breathe. Now I'll just have to get the strength back to propel myself forward hard enough to be
    able to do "sneaky breathing". I don't think this is something that can be done at the slow pace
    I'm going.

    Quoted message said:

    Breathing · Breathe early in the pull, without raising or jutting the chin. · Look down slightly
    ("sneaky" breath).

    Catherine

    --

    ~~~~~~~~~^o~~~~~~~~~~

  8. Quoted message said:

    FISHLIKE BUTTERFLY Stay long, low, and relaxed. The secret of efficient, effortless butterfly is
    to stay close to the surface at all times; don't fight gravity! Keep your head, hands, and
    shoulders as close to the surface as possible on the stroke and recovery.

    Seeing that you're advocating low undulation in butterfly, I'm curious to hear what you think of the
    rare breed of butterfly side breathers like Mel Stewart. If you've got the side to side neck
    flexibility, and could do it without twisting the rest of the spine, it seems like it would be
    easier to stay flatter breathing that way.

    Though I suppose there's a reason why the only side breathing flyer anyone can think of is Stewart.

    Jill [email hidden]

  9. de Valois <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] left this mess on 05 Mar 2003 22:37:30 GMT for The Way to clean up:

    Quoted message said:


    FISHLIKE BUTTERFLY Stay long, low, and relaxed. The secret of efficient, effortless butterfly is
    to stay close to the surface at all times; don't fight gravity!

    Terry, not for nothing, but this is a logical non-sequitor. Don't you mean, "don't fight
    buoyancy"?

    It can mean both, since he is talking about staying close to the surface on both the stroke and
    the recovery. It is not at all uncommon to see butterfliers really popping up high out of the
    water, and that means they're expending a significant amount of energy fighting gravity instead of
    moving forward!

    Bob

  10. "Jill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    FISHLIKE BUTTERFLY Stay long, low, and relaxed. The secret of efficient, effortless


    butterfly is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to stay close to the surface at all times; don't fight gravity! Keep


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    head, hands, and shoulders as close to the surface as possible on the


    stroke

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and recovery.

    Seeing that you're advocating low undulation in butterfly, I'm curious to hear what you think of
    the rare breed of butterfly side breathers like Mel Stewart. If you've got the side to side neck
    flexibility, and could do it without twisting the rest of the spine, it seems like it would be
    easier to stay flatter breathing that way.

    Though I suppose there's a reason why the only side breathing flyer anyone can think of is
    Stewart.

    I don't think there are many coaches out there who would coach their swimmers to breathe to the side
    but I think you are right to suggest that it allows for a more streamlined body position. The only
    two swimmers I know who breathe to the side in fly are two age groupers and they do it very
    effectively, with an appearance of effortlessness. They decided to do it because they said it felt
    more natural to breathe that way.

    Paul

  11. Try single arm fly drills (4 right/4 left/4 both arms or variation) accenting the dolphin action
    thru the water and concentating on the timing. Remember, in fly timing is everything. Also core body
    strength may also be part of the problem. Fly depends on it more than the other strokes & this
    "could" be the genetic link you joke about.

    Ultimately fly will be corrected far fasted by swim coaches, drills and even watching competitive
    swimmers than it will be watchiung videos of mum perform the stroke.

    Best of luck Lee www.bigdag.com.au

    "Catherine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that my
    stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of the
    water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband videotaped my
    fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse (must be
    genetic). Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on re-entry, their
    entire bodies flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out there that you could
    point me to, so that we could all practice them together?

    Catherine

    --

    ~~~~~~~~~^o~~~~~~~~~~

  12. I just have a quick tip on a few drills that I found really helpful...

    One arm fly...but instead of breathing to the side here- continuing breathing to the front. Its
    harder, but definately works on timing.

    Also...and you may do it...but do combos of breathing rotations...every 2/3/5/7, etc.

    And...do 2 kicks 1 arm as well as 2 arms 1 kick

    all would help with timing I think..but I a not a coach or anything...just going from why my coaches
    told me...

    [email hidden] (F.J.) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I would suggest you to get the DVD from USA Swimming featuring Michaeel Phelp. I have seen Phelp
    swim in persons for several years at Eastern Classic and always amazed by how at ease when he
    swim the fly. The DVD shows several drills that may help to establish the proper body undulation
    for fly.

    Catherine <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that
    my stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of
    the water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband
    videotaped my fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse
    (must be genetic). Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on
    re-entry, their entire bodies flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out
    there that you could point me to, so that we could all practice them together?

    Catherine

  13. My observations of age groupers suggest that single arm fly drill seems to do more harm to fly
    timing. For proper fly timing, head needs to "lead the arm". One arm fly drill seems to reenforce
    the habit of sticking up head while the hand makes the entry into water.

    iPrimus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Try single arm fly drills (4 right/4 left/4 both arms or variation) accenting the dolphin action
    thru the water and concentating on the timing. Remember, in fly timing is everything. Also core
    body strength may also be part of the problem. Fly depends on it more than the other strokes &
    this "could" be the genetic link you joke about.

    Ultimately fly will be corrected far fasted by swim coaches, drills and even watching competitive
    swimmers than it will be watchiung videos of mum perform the stroke.

    Best of luck Lee www.bigdag.com.au

    "Catherine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My husband videotaped me doing fly a little while ago, and to my astonishment, I found out that
    my stroke is not perfect! I breathe a little too late in my stroke so that my head comes out of
    the water only a little before my arms do. Unfortunately, one of the reasons my husband
    videotaped my fly was to show my kids how it *should* be done. Their fly strokes are even worse
    (must be genetic). Their arms and head come out of the water simultaneously, so that on
    re-entry, their entire bodies flop into the water. Very inefficient. Are there any drills out
    there that you could point me to, so that we could all practice them together?

    Catherine

    --

    ~~~~~~~~~^o~~~~~~~~~~

  14. Liled27 said:

    I just have a quick tip on a few drills that I found really helpful...

    One arm fly...but instead of breathing to the side here- continuing breathing to the front. Its
    harder, but definately works on timing.

    Also...and you may do it...but do combos of breathing rotations...every 2/3/5/7, etc.

    And...do 2 kicks 1 arm as well as 2 arms 1 kick

    all would help with timing I think..but I a not a coach or anything...just going from why my
    coaches told me...

    mmmm, drills are often useless if they aren't done with a particular goal in mind. A favourite
    example of mine is one arm fly - there's many ways to do it which all look, superficialy, the same
    but have rather different goals. It really can help to have a good coach handy to give some
    feedback. That being said, a few of my favourite drills:

    -One arm fly breathing forward, as mentioned above just try to also keep the arm close to the
    surface. This drill shouldn't feel balanced, or particularily 'good', you're just trying to
    literally watch the timing on the entry.

    -One arm fly with a 'twist', basically one arm fly (one hand up) with very little attention paid to
    the top or middle of the pull. Here the goal is to time the kick with the extension of the pull. If
    both are done in synch (andhard enough) the action should roll you right on your side. Sometimes
    it's easier to learn this timing if you do the drill with fins & paddles

    -Br/Fly drill, one stroke breast (with breast kick) one stroke fly (with dolphin kick) repeat. The
    goal here being to have no gliding or pausing phases. If you've already got half decent br rhythm
    this drill help to time the breath and avoid crashing (and the subsequent gliding) at the top of
    the stroke

    -Dolphin kick on your back, with or without fins the toes should exit the water and there should be
    little knee bend. IMHO 'fly is much more kick dominated then is often given credit for and none of
    my younger kids even start learning butterfly drills untill they can kick well. You'll also notice
    if the abs are a little weak as the kick will be hard to hold for more then a length or too.... 😉.
    A note: a dolphin kick should engage the abs at all times, but this often doesn't occur resulting in
    an excessive arching of the back at the top of the kick (feet behind you). This is especially true
    when kicking on your back so it's a good idea to keep the kick fairly small, the abs tight, and
    focus on the down beat which in this case is 'up' as your toes push past the knees and a little out
    of the water.

    -Simplfy the pull, not really a drill per say but sometimes just changing one's expectation for the
    shape of the pull can help. Often you see little kids learning fly told to pull like a giant key
    hole - big sweeps out, in and out again. While a good fly pull does have a little curve in it the
    last two aren't very big and the first should be nonexistant. Enter with the hands a little wider
    then shoulder width apart, pull the hands in together asap, pull/pussh straight down as far as
    possible, pull the elbows out (letting the hands follow) at the bottom. More a 'Y' then a keyhole.
    Even if the strength or technical proffeciency don't allow this never, _never_ enter with the hands
    together & pull out. Not only is this action useless, propulsion wise, but it's just asking for a
    shoulder injury.

    Theres all sorts of other drills to try but I think that if you can kick, breath reasonably early,
    and keep your elbows (as opposed to your hands) moving in the approximate arcs you'd like there
    really isn't much else to worry about. For the most part everything else is cosmetic.

    GL Mike

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