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Bush to be Impeached & Convicted?

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23 December 2005
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The Hairy Hidden Hand of the White Man
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  1. Bush's impeachable offense

    Yes, the president committed a federal crime by wiretapping Americans,
    say constitutional scholars, former intelligence officers and
    politicians. What's missing is the political will to impeach him.

    By Michelle Goldberg

    Dec. 22, 2005

    On Tuesday, Dec. 20, Washington Post polling editor Richard Morin
    participated in an online chat with readers. The liberal blog MyDD
    urged its users to take part, and evidently they did. In previous days,
    legal experts had declared that Bush had committed a federal crime by
    authorizing the surveillance of American citizens without a court
    order, and Morin was grilled about the issue of impeachment.

    First, someone from Naperville, Ill., asked Morin why the Post hasn't
    polled on public support for impeaching Bush. "This question makes me
    mad," Morin replied. Someone else repeated the question and Morin
    typed, "Getting madder." It came up again, and he wrote, "Madder
    still."

    Finally, a fourth person asked it, and he answered: "[W]e do not ask
    about impeachment because it is not a serious option or a topic of
    considered discussion -- witness the fact that no member of
    congressional Democratic leadership or any of the serious Democratic
    presidential candidates in '08 are calling for Bush's impeachment. When
    it is or they are, we will ask about it in our polls."

    Morin was wrong. It may be exceedingly unlikely that President Bush
    will be impeached, but in the past few days, the I-word has become a
    topic of considered discussion among constitutional scholars, former
    intelligence officers and even a few politicians.

    "If you listen carefully, you can hear the word 'impeachment,'"
    curmudgeonly commentator Jack Cafferty said on CNN. "Two congressional
    Democrats are using it. And they're not the only ones."

    Indeed, speaking on the Diane Rehm show on public radio, Norman
    Ornstein, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute,
    said, "I think if we're going to be intellectually honest here, this
    really is the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to
    when impeachment was discussed."

    On Dec. 17, after the story of Bush's domestic spying broke in the New
    York Times, the president conceded that he had ordered the National
    Security Agency to intercept Americans' communications without seeking
    judicial approval. Unrepentant, the White House insisted that Bush had
    been granted such authority by the post-9/11 congressional resolution
    authorizing "all necessary force" in the fight against terrorism, and
    that the president would continue to order warrantless searches.

    The next day, during a public discussion with Sen. Barbara Boxer,
    D-Calif., former Nixon White House counsel John Dean called Bush "the
    first president to admit to an impeachable offense." Boxer took Dean
    seriously enough to consult four presidential scholars about
    impeachment.

    "This startling assertion by Mr. Dean is especially poignant because he
    experienced firsthand the executive abuse of power and a presidential
    scandal arising from the surveillance of American citizens," she wrote
    to them. "Given your constitutional expertise, particularly in the area
    of presidential impeachment, I am writing to ask for your comments and
    thoughts on Mr. Dean's statement."

    Boxer has not made public any of the responses yet. But other political
    scholars have weighed in. "The American public has to understand that a
    crime has been committed, a serious crime," Chris Pyle, a professor of
    politics at Mount Holyoke College and an expert on government
    surveillance of civilians, tells Salon. "Looking at this controversy
    objectively, you inevitably end up with a question of impeachment,"
    says Jonathan Turley, a professor at the George Washington University
    School of Law.

    On Dec. 18, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the highest-ranking Democrat on
    the House Judiciary Committee, released a 250-page report detailing
    Bush's misconduct and, on his Web site, called for the creation of a
    select committee to investigate "those offenses which appear to rise to
    the level of impeachment." Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a radio
    interview that he would support trying Bush. "If there is a move to
    impeach the president, I will sign that bill of impeachment," he said.

    Assessing the controversy, Newsweek columnist Jonathan Alter wrote on
    Dec. 19, "This will all play out eventually in congressional committees
    and in the United States Supreme Court. If the Democrats regain control
    of Congress, there may even be articles of impeachment introduced.
    Similar abuse of power was part of the impeachment charge brought
    against Richard Nixon in 1974."

    It was bracing to see impeachment mentioned as a possibility in the
    mainstream media. But experts say it's not unreasonable. According to
    Turley, there's little question Bush committed a federal crime by
    violating the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

    The act authorizes a secret court to issue warrants to eavesdrop on
    potential suspects, or anyone even remotely connected to them, inside
    the United States. The bar to obtain a FISA warrant is low; more than
    15,000 have been granted, with only four requests denied since 1979. In
    emergency situations, the government can even apply for FISA warrants
    retroactively. Nevertheless, Bush chose not to comply with FISA's
    minimal requirements.

    "The fact is, the federal law is perfectly clear," Turley says. "At the
    heart of this operation was a federal crime. The president has already
    conceded that he personally ordered that crime and renewed that order
    at least 30 times. This would clearly satisfy the standard of high
    crimes and misdemeanors for the purpose of an impeachment."

    Turley is no Democratic partisan; he testified to Congress in favor of
    Bill Clinton's impeachment. "Many of my Republican friends joined in
    that hearing and insisted that this was a matter of defending the rule
    of law, and had nothing to do with political antagonism," he says. "I'm
    surprised that many of those same voices are silent. The crime in this
    case was a knowing and premeditated act. This operation violated not
    just the federal statute but the United States Constitution. For
    Republicans to suggest that this is not a legitimate question of
    federal crimes makes a mockery of their position during the Clinton
    period. For Republicans, this is the ultimate test of principle."

    Of course, that may be exactly the problem. While noted experts --
    including a few Republicans -- are saying Bush should be impeached, few
    think he will be. It's not clear that the political will exists to hold
    the president to account. "We have finally reached the constitutional
    Rubicon," Turley says. "If Congress cannot stand firm against the open
    violation of federal law by the president, then we have truly become an
    autocracy."

    Similar fears are voiced by Bruce Fein, a former associate deputy
    attorney general under President Ronald Reagan. Fein is very much a
    member of the right. He once published a column arguing that "President
    George W. Bush should pack the United States Supreme Court with
    philosophical clones of Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas and
    defeated nominee Robert H. Bork."

    Suddenly, though, Fein is talking about Bush as a threat to America.
    "President Bush presents a clear and present danger to the rule of
    law," he wrote in the right-wing Washington Times on Dec. 20. "He
    cannot be trusted to conduct the war against global terrorism with a
    decent respect for civil liberties and checks against executive abuses.
    Congress should swiftly enact a code that would require Mr. Bush to
    obtain legislative consent for every counterterrorism measure that
    would materially impair individual freedoms."

    What alarms Fein is not only that Bush has broken laws but also that he
    has repeatedly shown contempt for the separation of powers. Fein wants
    to see congressional hearings that would explore whether Bush accepts
    any constitutional limitation on his own authority.

    "The most important thing to me, in terms of thinking about the issue
    of impeachment, is to recognize that the Constitution does place a
    value on continuity," Fein says. "We don't want to have a situation
    where you make a single error, and you're exposed to an impeachment
    proceeding."

    Fein says Congress should probe Bush on whether he plans to keep
    "skating the edge" of federal law by trying to concentrate power in the
    executive branch. "That's the key. It's that probing that's essential
    to knowing whether we're dealing with somebody who's really a dangerous
    guy. If he maintains this disregard or contempt for the coordinate
    branches of government, it's that conception of an omnipotent
    presidency that makes the occupant a dangerous person. We just can't
    sacrifice our liberties for ourselves and our posterity by permitting
    someone who thinks the state is him, and nobody else, to continue in
    office."

    In fact, though, that may be exactly what America is permitting Bush to
    do. "Politically, I see no possibility that impeachment will succeed,"
    says Jonathan Entin, a professor of political science and law at Case
    Western Reserve University.

    "The Democrats are a minority in both houses of Congress," Entin says.
    "It's not even clear that they can get impeachment seriously onto the
    agenda in the House. Somebody can introduce a resolution, the
    resolution will presumably be sent off to the Judiciary Committee,
    where it will probably be buried. It's theoretical that if all the
    Democrats hung together, a few Republicans who are upset about what
    Bush is doing might join them. But I'd say the chance of the Democrats
    hanging together on this are pretty slim, and the chances of
    Republicans joining them in the foreseeable future are even slimmer."

    "The only question here is the political one," says Pyle of Mount
    Holyoke College. A former military intelligence officer, Pyle blew the
    whistle on the U.S. Army's domestic spying program during the Vietnam
    War. He believes that Bush has committed an impeachable offense -- and
    that right now there's no prospect he will be impeached. "This
    president has admitted committing the crime. He just claims he's above
    the law," Pyle says. "So the issue is: Is the president above the law?"

    If so, Pyle continues, "then we need not argue over the PATRIOT Act. We
    do not need the PATRIOT Act, because the president can do anything he
    wants in time of war. He can ignore all the criminal laws of the United
    States, including the laws against indefinite detention and against
    torture. I don't think we want to go down that road."

    But aren't we already down that road? "We may be," Pyle says. "Maybe
    it's time to call a halt."

    -- By Michelle Goldberg

  2. Hey [censored], Er I mean Hank, it's not breaking the law when you change
    the law beforehand. But anyway, who wants "President [censored] Cheney"?
    Nobody...

    On 22 Dec 2005 17:01:17 -0800, "The Hairy Hidden Hand of the White

    Man said:

    Bush's impeachable offense

    Yes, the president committed a federal crime by wiretapping Americans,
    say constitutional scholars, former intelligence officers and
    politicians. What's missing is the political will to impeach him.

    By Michelle Goldberg

    Dec. 22, 2005

    On Tuesday, Dec. 20, Washington Post polling editor Richard Morin
    participated in an online chat with readers. The liberal blog MyDD
    urged its users to take part, and evidently they did. In previous days,
    legal experts had declared that Bush had committed a federal crime by
    authorizing the surveillance of American citizens without a court
    order, and Morin was grilled about the issue of impeachment.

    First, someone from Naperville, Ill., asked Morin why the Post hasn't
    polled on public support for impeaching Bush. "This question makes me
    mad," Morin replied. Someone else repeated the question and Morin
    typed, "Getting madder." It came up again, and he wrote, "Madder
    still."

    Finally, a fourth person asked it, and he answered: "[W]e do not ask
    about impeachment because it is not a serious option or a topic of
    considered discussion -- witness the fact that no member of
    congressional Democratic leadership or any of the serious Democratic
    presidential candidates in '08 are calling for Bush's impeachment. When
    it is or they are, we will ask about it in our polls."

    Morin was wrong. It may be exceedingly unlikely that President Bush
    will be impeached, but in the past few days, the I-word has become a
    topic of considered discussion among constitutional scholars, former
    intelligence officers and even a few politicians.

    "If you listen carefully, you can hear the word 'impeachment,'"
    curmudgeonly commentator Jack Cafferty said on CNN. "Two congressional
    Democrats are using it. And they're not the only ones."

    Indeed, speaking on the Diane Rehm show on public radio, Norman
    Ornstein, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute,
    said, "I think if we're going to be intellectually honest here, this
    really is the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to
    when impeachment was discussed."

    On Dec. 17, after the story of Bush's domestic spying broke in the New
    York Times, the president conceded that he had ordered the National
    Security Agency to intercept Americans' communications without seeking
    judicial approval. Unrepentant, the White House insisted that Bush had
    been granted such authority by the post-9/11 congressional resolution
    authorizing "all necessary force" in the fight against terrorism, and
    that the president would continue to order warrantless searches.

    The next day, during a public discussion with Sen. Barbara Boxer,
    D-Calif., former Nixon White House counsel John Dean called Bush "the
    first president to admit to an impeachable offense." Boxer took Dean
    seriously enough to consult four presidential scholars about
    impeachment.

    "This startling assertion by Mr. Dean is especially poignant because he
    experienced firsthand the executive abuse of power and a presidential
    scandal arising from the surveillance of American citizens," she wrote
    to them. "Given your constitutional expertise, particularly in the area
    of presidential impeachment, I am writing to ask for your comments and
    thoughts on Mr. Dean's statement."

    Boxer has not made public any of the responses yet. But other political
    scholars have weighed in. "The American public has to understand that a
    crime has been committed, a serious crime," Chris Pyle, a professor of
    politics at Mount Holyoke College and an expert on government
    surveillance of civilians, tells Salon. "Looking at this controversy
    objectively, you inevitably end up with a question of impeachment,"
    says Jonathan Turley, a professor at the George Washington University
    School of Law.

    On Dec. 18, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the highest-ranking Democrat on
    the House Judiciary Committee, released a 250-page report detailing
    Bush's misconduct and, on his Web site, called for the creation of a
    select committee to investigate "those offenses which appear to rise to
    the level of impeachment." Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a radio
    interview that he would support trying Bush. "If there is a move to
    impeach the president, I will sign that bill of impeachment," he said.

    Assessing the controversy, Newsweek columnist Jonathan Alter wrote on
    Dec. 19, "This will all play out eventually in congressional committees
    and in the United States Supreme Court. If the Democrats regain control
    of Congress, there may even be articles of impeachment introduced.
    Similar abuse of power was part of the impeachment charge brought
    against Richard Nixon in 1974."

    It was bracing to see impeachment mentioned as a possibility in the
    mainstream media. But experts say it's not unreasonable. According to
    Turley, there's little question Bush committed a federal crime by
    violating the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

    The act authorizes a secret court to issue warrants to eavesdrop on
    potential suspects, or anyone even remotely connected to them, inside
    the United States. The bar to obtain a FISA warrant is low; more than
    15,000 have been granted, with only four requests denied since 1979. In
    emergency situations, the government can even apply for FISA warrants
    retroactively. Nevertheless, Bush chose not to comply with FISA's
    minimal requirements.

    "The fact is, the federal law is perfectly clear," Turley says. "At the
    heart of this operation was a federal crime. The president has already
    conceded that he personally ordered that crime and renewed that order
    at least 30 times. This would clearly satisfy the standard of high
    crimes and misdemeanors for the purpose of an impeachment."

    Turley is no Democratic partisan; he testified to Congress in favor of
    Bill Clinton's impeachment. "Many of my Republican friends joined in
    that hearing and insisted that this was a matter of defending the rule
    of law, and had nothing to do with political antagonism," he says. "I'm
    surprised that many of those same voices are silent. The crime in this
    case was a knowing and premeditated act. This operation violated not
    just the federal statute but the United States Constitution. For
    Republicans to suggest that this is not a legitimate question of
    federal crimes makes a mockery of their position during the Clinton
    period. For Republicans, this is the ultimate test of principle."

    Of course, that may be exactly the problem. While noted experts --
    including a few Republicans -- are saying Bush should be impeached, few
    think he will be. It's not clear that the political will exists to hold
    the president to account. "We have finally reached the constitutional
    Rubicon," Turley says. "If Congress cannot stand firm against the open
    violation of federal law by the president, then we have truly become an
    autocracy."

    Similar fears are voiced by Bruce Fein, a former associate deputy
    attorney general under President Ronald Reagan. Fein is very much a
    member of the right. He once published a column arguing that "President
    George W. Bush should pack the United States Supreme Court with
    philosophical clones of Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas and
    defeated nominee Robert H. Bork."

    Suddenly, though, Fein is talking about Bush as a threat to America.
    "President Bush presents a clear and present danger to the rule of
    law," he wrote in the right-wing Washington Times on Dec. 20. "He
    cannot be trusted to conduct the war against global terrorism with a
    decent respect for civil liberties and checks against executive abuses.
    Congress should swiftly enact a code that would require Mr. Bush to
    obtain legislative consent for every counterterrorism measure that
    would materially impair individual freedoms."

    What alarms Fein is not only that Bush has broken laws but also that he
    has repeatedly shown contempt for the separation of powers. Fein wants
    to see congressional hearings that would explore whether Bush accepts
    any constitutional limitation on his own authority.

    "The most important thing to me, in terms of thinking about the issue
    of impeachment, is to recognize that the Constitution does place a
    value on continuity," Fein says. "We don't want to have a situation
    where you make a single error, and you're exposed to an impeachment
    proceeding."

    Fein says Congress should probe Bush on whether he plans to keep
    "skating the edge" of federal law by trying to concentrate power in the
    executive branch. "That's the key. It's that probing that's essential
    to knowing whether we're dealing with somebody who's really a dangerous
    guy. If he maintains this disregard or contempt for the coordinate
    branches of government, it's that conception of an omnipotent
    presidency that makes the occupant a dangerous person. We just can't
    sacrifice our liberties for ourselves and our posterity by permitting
    someone who thinks the state is him, and nobody else, to continue in
    office."

    In fact, though, that may be exactly what America is permitting Bush to
    do. "Politically, I see no possibility that impeachment will succeed,"
    says Jonathan Entin, a professor of political science and law at Case
    Western Reserve University.

    "The Democrats are a minority in both houses of Congress," Entin says.
    "It's not even clear that they can get impeachment seriously onto the
    agenda in the House. Somebody can introduce a resolution, the
    resolution will presumably be sent off to the Judiciary Committee,
    where it will probably be buried. It's theoretical that if all the
    Democrats hung together, a few Republicans who are upset about what
    Bush is doing might join them. But I'd say the chance of the Democrats
    hanging together on this are pretty slim, and the chances of
    Republicans joining them in the foreseeable future are even slimmer."

    "The only question here is the political one," says Pyle of Mount
    Holyoke College. A former military intelligence officer, Pyle blew the
    whistle on the U.S. Army's domestic spying program during the Vietnam
    War. He believes that Bush has committed an impeachable offense -- and
    that right now there's no prospect he will be impeached. "This
    president has admitted committing the crime. He just claims he's above
    the law," Pyle says. "So the issue is: Is the president above the law?"

    If so, Pyle continues, "then we need not argue over the PATRIOT Act. We
    do not need the PATRIOT Act, because the president can do anything he
    wants in time of war. He can ignore all the criminal laws of the United
    States, including the laws against indefinite detention and against
    torture. I don't think we want to go down that road."

    But aren't we already down that road? "We may be," Pyle says. "Maybe
    it's time to call a halt."

    -- By Michelle Goldberg

  3. Jockular said:

    Hey [censored], Er I mean Hank, it's not breaking the law when you change
    the law beforehand. But anyway, who wants "President [censored] Cheney"?
    Nobody...

    On 22 Dec 2005 17:01:17 -0800, "The Hairy Hidden Hand of the White

    Man said:

    Bush's impeachable offense

    Yes, the president committed a federal crime by wiretapping Americans,
    say constitutional scholars, former intelligence officers and
    politicians. What's missing is the political will to impeach him.

    By Michelle Goldberg

    Dec. 22, 2005

    On Tuesday, Dec. 20, Washington Post polling editor Richard Morin
    participated in an online chat with readers. The liberal blog MyDD
    urged its users to take part, and evidently they did. In previous days,
    legal experts had declared that Bush had committed a federal crime by
    authorizing the surveillance of American citizens without a court
    order, and Morin was grilled about the issue of impeachment.

    First, someone from Naperville, Ill., asked Morin why the Post hasn't
    polled on public support for impeaching Bush. "This question makes me
    mad," Morin replied. Someone else repeated the question and Morin
    typed, "Getting madder." It came up again, and he wrote, "Madder
    still."

    Finally, a fourth person asked it, and he answered: "[W]e do not ask
    about impeachment because it is not a serious option or a topic of
    considered discussion -- witness the fact that no member of
    congressional Democratic leadership or any of the serious Democratic
    presidential candidates in '08 are calling for Bush's impeachment. When
    it is or they are, we will ask about it in our polls."

    Morin was wrong. It may be exceedingly unlikely that President Bush
    will be impeached, but in the past few days, the I-word has become a
    topic of considered discussion among constitutional scholars, former
    intelligence officers and even a few politicians.

    "If you listen carefully, you can hear the word 'impeachment,'"
    curmudgeonly commentator Jack Cafferty said on CNN. "Two congressional
    Democrats are using it. And they're not the only ones."

    Indeed, speaking on the Diane Rehm show on public radio, Norman
    Ornstein, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute,
    said, "I think if we're going to be intellectually honest here, this
    really is the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to
    when impeachment was discussed."

    On Dec. 17, after the story of Bush's domestic spying broke in the New
    York Times, the president conceded that he had ordered the National
    Security Agency to intercept Americans' communications without seeking
    judicial approval. Unrepentant, the White House insisted that Bush had
    been granted such authority by the post-9/11 congressional resolution
    authorizing "all necessary force" in the fight against terrorism, and
    that the president would continue to order warrantless searches.

    The next day, during a public discussion with Sen. Barbara Boxer,
    D-Calif., former Nixon White House counsel John Dean called Bush "the
    first president to admit to an impeachable offense." Boxer took Dean
    seriously enough to consult four presidential scholars about
    impeachment.

    "This startling assertion by Mr. Dean is especially poignant because he
    experienced firsthand the executive abuse of power and a presidential
    scandal arising from the surveillance of American citizens," she wrote
    to them. "Given your constitutional expertise, particularly in the area
    of presidential impeachment, I am writing to ask for your comments and
    thoughts on Mr. Dean's statement."

    Boxer has not made public any of the responses yet. But other political
    scholars have weighed in. "The American public has to understand that a
    crime has been committed, a serious crime," Chris Pyle, a professor of
    politics at Mount Holyoke College and an expert on government
    surveillance of civilians, tells Salon. "Looking at this controversy
    objectively, you inevitably end up with a question of impeachment,"
    says Jonathan Turley, a professor at the George Washington University
    School of Law.

    On Dec. 18, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the highest-ranking Democrat on
    the House Judiciary Committee, released a 250-page report detailing
    Bush's misconduct and, on his Web site, called for the creation of a
    select committee to investigate "those offenses which appear to rise to
    the level of impeachment." Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a radio
    interview that he would support trying Bush. "If there is a move to
    impeach the president, I will sign that bill of impeachment," he said.

    Assessing the controversy, Newsweek columnist Jonathan Alter wrote on
    Dec. 19, "This will all play out eventually in congressional committees
    and in the United States Supreme Court. If the Democrats regain control
    of Congress, there may even be articles of impeachment introduced.
    Similar abuse of power was part of the impeachment charge brought
    against Richard Nixon in 1974."

    It was bracing to see impeachment mentioned as a possibility in the
    mainstream media. But experts say it's not unreasonable. According to
    Turley, there's little question Bush committed a federal crime by
    violating the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

    The act authorizes a secret court to issue warrants to eavesdrop on
    potential suspects, or anyone even remotely connected to them, inside
    the United States. The bar to obtain a FISA warrant is low; more than
    15,000 have been granted, with only four requests denied since 1979. In
    emergency situations, the government can even apply for FISA warrants
    retroactively. Nevertheless, Bush chose not to comply with FISA's
    minimal requirements.

    "The fact is, the federal law is perfectly clear," Turley says. "At the
    heart of this operation was a federal crime. The president has already
    conceded that he personally ordered that crime and renewed that order
    at least 30 times. This would clearly satisfy the standard of high
    crimes and misdemeanors for the purpose of an impeachment."

    Turley is no Democratic partisan; he testified to Congress in favor of
    Bill Clinton's impeachment. "Many of my Republican friends joined in
    that hearing and insisted that this was a matter of defending the rule
    of law, and had nothing to do with political antagonism," he says. "I'm
    surprised that many of those same voices are silent. The crime in this
    case was a knowing and premeditated act. This operation violated not
    just the federal statute but the United States Constitution. For
    Republicans to suggest that this is not a legitimate question of
    federal crimes makes a mockery of their position during the Clinton
    period. For Republicans, this is the ultimate test of principle."

    Of course, that may be exactly the problem. While noted experts --
    including a few Republicans -- are saying Bush should be impeached, few
    think he will be. It's not clear that the political will exists to hold
    the president to account. "We have finally reached the constitutional
    Rubicon," Turley says. "If Congress cannot stand firm against the open
    violation of federal law by the president, then we have truly become an
    autocracy."

    Similar fears are voiced by Bruce Fein, a former associate deputy
    attorney general under President Ronald Reagan. Fein is very much a
    member of the right. He once published a column arguing that "President
    George W. Bush should pack the United States Supreme Court with
    philosophical clones of Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas and
    defeated nominee Robert H. Bork."

    Suddenly, though, Fein is talking about Bush as a threat to America.
    "President Bush presents a clear and present danger to the rule of
    law," he wrote in the right-wing Washington Times on Dec. 20. "He
    cannot be trusted to conduct the war against global terrorism with a
    decent respect for civil liberties and checks against executive abuses.
    Congress should swiftly enact a code that would require Mr. Bush to
    obtain legislative consent for every counterterrorism measure that
    would materially impair individual freedoms."

    What alarms Fein is not only that Bush has broken laws but also that he
    has repeatedly shown contempt for the separation of powers. Fein wants
    to see congressional hearings that would explore whether Bush accepts
    any constitutional limitation on his own authority.

    "The most important thing to me, in terms of thinking about the issue
    of impeachment, is to recognize that the Constitution does place a
    value on continuity," Fein says. "We don't want to have a situation
    where you make a single error, and you're exposed to an impeachment
    proceeding."

    Fein says Congress should probe Bush on whether he plans to keep
    "skating the edge" of federal law by trying to concentrate power in the
    executive branch. "That's the key. It's that probing that's essential
    to knowing whether we're dealing with somebody who's really a dangerous
    guy. If he maintains this disregard or contempt for the coordinate
    branches of government, it's that conception of an omnipotent
    presidency that makes the occupant a dangerous person. We just can't
    sacrifice our liberties for ourselves and our posterity by permitting
    someone who thinks the state is him, and nobody else, to continue in
    office."

    In fact, though, that may be exactly what America is permitting Bush to
    do. "Politically, I see no possibility that impeachment will succeed,"
    says Jonathan Entin, a professor of political science and law at Case
    Western Reserve University.

    "The Democrats are a minority in both houses of Congress," Entin says.
    "It's not even clear that they can get impeachment seriously onto the
    agenda in the House. Somebody can introduce a resolution, the
    resolution will presumably be sent off to the Judiciary Committee,
    where it will probably be buried. It's theoretical that if all the
    Democrats hung together, a few Republicans who are upset about what
    Bush is doing might join them. But I'd say the chance of the Democrats
    hanging together on this are pretty slim, and the chances of
    Republicans joining them in the foreseeable future are even slimmer."

    "The only question here is the political one," says Pyle of Mount
    Holyoke College. A former military intelligence officer, Pyle blew the
    whistle on the U.S. Army's domestic spying program during the Vietnam
    War. He believes that Bush has committed an impeachable offense -- and
    that right now there's no prospect he will be impeached. "This
    president has admitted committing the crime. He just claims he's above
    the law," Pyle says. "So the issue is: Is the president above the law?"

    If so, Pyle continues, "then we need not argue over the PATRIOT Act. We
    do not need the PATRIOT Act, because the president can do anything he
    wants in time of war. He can ignore all the criminal laws of the United
    States, including the laws against indefinite detention and against
    torture. I don't think we want to go down that road."

    But aren't we already down that road? "We may be," Pyle says. "Maybe
    it's time to call a halt."

    -- By Michelle Goldberg

    *Shudders*..... eww... President Cheney? Thanks but I'll put up with
    our chimp-like prez until '08...unless Cheney's heart finally makes
    good on its promise then I'll be asking for impeachment!

  4. On 22 Dec 2005 17:34:41 -0800, "Cleopatra" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    *Shudders*..... eww... President Cheney?

    That would make a good horror movie though...

  5. Damn Pesky Constitution!

    Come On! It's not like the man lied about sex!

    "Jockular" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hey [censored], Er I mean Hank, it's not breaking the law when you change
    the law beforehand. But anyway, who wants "President [censored] Cheney"?
    Nobody...

    On 22 Dec 2005 17:01:17 -0800, "The Hairy Hidden Hand of the White

    Man said:

    Bush's impeachable offense

    Yes, the president committed a federal crime by wiretapping Americans,
    say constitutional scholars, former intelligence officers and
    politicians. What's missing is the political will to impeach him.

    By Michelle Goldberg

    Dec. 22, 2005

    On Tuesday, Dec. 20, Washington Post polling editor Richard Morin
    participated in an online chat with readers. The liberal blog MyDD
    urged its users to take part, and evidently they did. In previous days,
    legal experts had declared that Bush had committed a federal crime by
    authorizing the surveillance of American citizens without a court
    order, and Morin was grilled about the issue of impeachment.

    First, someone from Naperville, Ill., asked Morin why the Post hasn't
    polled on public support for impeaching Bush. "This question makes me
    mad," Morin replied. Someone else repeated the question and Morin
    typed, "Getting madder." It came up again, and he wrote, "Madder
    still."

    Finally, a fourth person asked it, and he answered: "[W]e do not ask
    about impeachment because it is not a serious option or a topic of
    considered discussion -- witness the fact that no member of
    congressional Democratic leadership or any of the serious Democratic
    presidential candidates in '08 are calling for Bush's impeachment. When
    it is or they are, we will ask about it in our polls."

    Morin was wrong. It may be exceedingly unlikely that President Bush
    will be impeached, but in the past few days, the I-word has become a
    topic of considered discussion among constitutional scholars, former
    intelligence officers and even a few politicians.

    "If you listen carefully, you can hear the word 'impeachment,'"
    curmudgeonly commentator Jack Cafferty said on CNN. "Two congressional
    Democrats are using it. And they're not the only ones."

    Indeed, speaking on the Diane Rehm show on public radio, Norman
    Ornstein, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute,
    said, "I think if we're going to be intellectually honest here, this
    really is the kind of thing that Alexander Hamilton was referring to
    when impeachment was discussed."

    On Dec. 17, after the story of Bush's domestic spying broke in the New
    York Times, the president conceded that he had ordered the National
    Security Agency to intercept Americans' communications without seeking
    judicial approval. Unrepentant, the White House insisted that Bush had
    been granted such authority by the post-9/11 congressional resolution
    authorizing "all necessary force" in the fight against terrorism, and
    that the president would continue to order warrantless searches.

    The next day, during a public discussion with Sen. Barbara Boxer,
    D-Calif., former Nixon White House counsel John Dean called Bush "the
    first president to admit to an impeachable offense." Boxer took Dean
    seriously enough to consult four presidential scholars about
    impeachment.

    "This startling assertion by Mr. Dean is especially poignant because he
    experienced firsthand the executive abuse of power and a presidential
    scandal arising from the surveillance of American citizens," she wrote
    to them. "Given your constitutional expertise, particularly in the area
    of presidential impeachment, I am writing to ask for your comments and
    thoughts on Mr. Dean's statement."

    Boxer has not made public any of the responses yet. But other political
    scholars have weighed in. "The American public has to understand that a
    crime has been committed, a serious crime," Chris Pyle, a professor of
    politics at Mount Holyoke College and an expert on government
    surveillance of civilians, tells Salon. "Looking at this controversy
    objectively, you inevitably end up with a question of impeachment,"
    says Jonathan Turley, a professor at the George Washington University
    School of Law.

    On Dec. 18, Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the highest-ranking Democrat on
    the House Judiciary Committee, released a 250-page report detailing
    Bush's misconduct and, on his Web site, called for the creation of a
    select committee to investigate "those offenses which appear to rise to
    the level of impeachment." Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a radio
    interview that he would support trying Bush. "If there is a move to
    impeach the president, I will sign that bill of impeachment," he said.

    Assessing the controversy, Newsweek columnist Jonathan Alter wrote on
    Dec. 19, "This will all play out eventually in congressional committees
    and in the United States Supreme Court. If the Democrats regain control
    of Congress, there may even be articles of impeachment introduced.
    Similar abuse of power was part of the impeachment charge brought
    against Richard Nixon in 1974."

    It was bracing to see impeachment mentioned as a possibility in the
    mainstream media. But experts say it's not unreasonable. According to
    Turley, there's little question Bush committed a federal crime by
    violating the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

    The act authorizes a secret court to issue warrants to eavesdrop on
    potential suspects, or anyone even remotely connected to them, inside
    the United States. The bar to obtain a FISA warrant is low; more than
    15,000 have been granted, with only four requests denied since 1979. In
    emergency situations, the government can even apply for FISA warrants
    retroactively. Nevertheless, Bush chose not to comply with FISA's
    minimal requirements.

    "The fact is, the federal law is perfectly clear," Turley says. "At the
    heart of this operation was a federal crime. The president has already
    conceded that he personally ordered that crime and renewed that order
    at least 30 times. This would clearly satisfy the standard of high
    crimes and misdemeanors for the purpose of an impeachment."

    Turley is no Democratic partisan; he testified to Congress in favor of
    Bill Clinton's impeachment. "Many of my Republican friends joined in
    that hearing and insisted that this was a matter of defending the rule
    of law, and had nothing to do with political antagonism," he says. "I'm
    surprised that many of those same voices are silent. The crime in this
    case was a knowing and premeditated act. This operation violated not
    just the federal statute but the United States Constitution. For
    Republicans to suggest that this is not a legitimate question of
    federal crimes makes a mockery of their position during the Clinton
    period. For Republicans, this is the ultimate test of principle."

    Of course, that may be exactly the problem. While noted experts --
    including a few Republicans -- are saying Bush should be impeached, few
    think he will be. It's not clear that the political will exists to hold
    the president to account. "We have finally reached the constitutional
    Rubicon," Turley says. "If Congress cannot stand firm against the open
    violation of federal law by the president, then we have truly become an
    autocracy."

    Similar fears are voiced by Bruce Fein, a former associate deputy
    attorney general under President Ronald Reagan. Fein is very much a
    member of the right. He once published a column arguing that "President
    George W. Bush should pack the United States Supreme Court with
    philosophical clones of Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas and
    defeated nominee Robert H. Bork."

    Suddenly, though, Fein is talking about Bush as a threat to America.
    "President Bush presents a clear and present danger to the rule of
    law," he wrote in the right-wing Washington Times on Dec. 20. "He
    cannot be trusted to conduct the war against global terrorism with a
    decent respect for civil liberties and checks against executive abuses.
    Congress should swiftly enact a code that would require Mr. Bush to
    obtain legislative consent for every counterterrorism measure that
    would materially impair individual freedoms."

    What alarms Fein is not only that Bush has broken laws but also that he
    has repeatedly shown contempt for the separation of powers. Fein wants
    to see congressional hearings that would explore whether Bush accepts
    any constitutional limitation on his own authority.

    "The most important thing to me, in terms of thinking about the issue
    of impeachment, is to recognize that the Constitution does place a
    value on continuity," Fein says. "We don't want to have a situation
    where you make a single error, and you're exposed to an impeachment
    proceeding."

    Fein says Congress should probe Bush on whether he plans to keep
    "skating the edge" of federal law by trying to concentrate power in the
    executive branch. "That's the key. It's that probing that's essential
    to knowing whether we're dealing with somebody who's really a dangerous
    guy. If he maintains this disregard or contempt for the coordinate
    branches of government, it's that conception of an omnipotent
    presidency that makes the occupant a dangerous person. We just can't
    sacrifice our liberties for ourselves and our posterity by permitting
    someone who thinks the state is him, and nobody else, to continue in
    office."

    In fact, though, that may be exactly what America is permitting Bush to
    do. "Politically, I see no possibility that impeachment will succeed,"
    says Jonathan Entin, a professor of political science and law at Case
    Western Reserve University.

    "The Democrats are a minority in both houses of Congress," Entin says.
    "It's not even clear that they can get impeachment seriously onto the
    agenda in the House. Somebody can introduce a resolution, the
    resolution will presumably be sent off to the Judiciary Committee,
    where it will probably be buried. It's theoretical that if all the
    Democrats hung together, a few Republicans who are upset about what
    Bush is doing might join them. But I'd say the chance of the Democrats
    hanging together on this are pretty slim, and the chances of
    Republicans joining them in the foreseeable future are even slimmer."

    "The only question here is the political one," says Pyle of Mount
    Holyoke College. A former military intelligence officer, Pyle blew the
    whistle on the U.S. Army's domestic spying program during the Vietnam
    War. He believes that Bush has committed an impeachable offense -- and
    that right now there's no prospect he will be impeached. "This
    president has admitted committing the crime. He just claims he's above
    the law," Pyle says. "So the issue is: Is the president above the law?"

    If so, Pyle continues, "then we need not argue over the PATRIOT Act. We
    do not need the PATRIOT Act, because the president can do anything he
    wants in time of war. He can ignore all the criminal laws of the United
    States, including the laws against indefinite detention and against
    torture. I don't think we want to go down that road."

    But aren't we already down that road? "We may be," Pyle says. "Maybe
    it's time to call a halt."

    -- By Michelle Goldberg


  6. "Cleopatra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Jockular said:

    Hey [censored], Er I mean Hank, it's not breaking the law when you change
    the law beforehand. But anyway, who wants "President [censored] Cheney"?
    Nobody...

    Quoted message said:

    *Shudders*..... eww... President Cheney? Thanks but I'll put up with
    our chimp-like prez until '08...unless Cheney's heart finally makes
    good on its promise then I'll be asking for impeachment!

    Cheney died years ago. This model is wound up every morning and sent on
    it's Merry Way.

  7. lol you mean he's a Stepford VP?

  8. The Hairy Hidden Hand of the White Man' withbacon aol.com said:

    Bush's impeachable offense

    Yes, the president committed a federal crime by wiretapping Americans,
    say constitutional scholars, former intelligence officers and
    politicians. What's missing is the political will to impeach him.

    Or "I saw someone commit a crime, but no one will believe me".
    It's pointless.

    Quoted message said:

    Path: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy.com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
    From: "The Hairy Hidden Hand of the White Man" <withbacon aol.com>
    Newsgroups: alt.gossip.celebrities,alt.showbiz.gossip,misc.fitness.weights,alt.politics.usa.republican
    Subject: Bush to be Impeached & Convicted?
    Date: 22 Dec 2005 17:01:17 -0800
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