Bush Plans Iran Invasion

Carrera said:

It's also predicted that resistance in Iran will be far more stubborn than in Iraq and may well become a bloodbath.

Iran is 4 times bigger that Iraq and has 3 times the population...

look how difficult the war was in Iraq....i doubt there will be as many allies this time around either and support in the US will be at an all time low.

the US couldnt sink any lower in the estimation of the rest of the world, what have they got to lose...

i personally dont think that they will chance a war with Iran..

Carrera said:

Intelligence reports now suggest the Bush Administration is planning military action against Iran. It may well be the case that Colin Powell made his decision to resign from the Administration, some weeks back, when he became aware of that fact. And let's not forget Israel's secret services managed to steal some documents that concerned Bush's planned invasion some weeks ago and know what has been put on the agenda.
The pretext for the planned invasion is that Iran harbours weapons of mass destruction and poses a threat to its neighbours.
Some analysts suspect the goal of the Administration is to take control of all oilfields in the Middle East in order to try to keep the U.S. economy from falling behind China. It's also predicted that resistance in Iran will be far more stubborn than in Iraq and may well become a bloodbath.

I think that Bush might make a lot of noise about Iran but I don't think that even he is that stupid to invade Iran.

I think the issue of the US economy is central to all Bush's actions in the Middle East.
Their US economy is screwed, and I mean royally screwed.

I don't want to take away from your topic Carrera, but it is worth pointing out some things about their economy that, I believe, has influenced US actions in the Middle East.
When you hit economic problems, there are a series of steps that you take to try to overcome those issues.
You try to make your economy more productive and competitive by investment.
Bush has failed in this.

If these solutions don't work, you then start reaching for more "macro" solutions.
Tax cuts, borrowing money, are politicians favourites to get an economy going.
Bush tried both and still the US economy hasn't sparked.
1.4m jobs were lost to China - US companies have relocated to territory outside the USA, people in the USA prefer to by product from abroad rather
than supporting their home economy.

Desperation sets in.
Bush has gone to the cupboard and now finds that he has few options left to spark the economy.
So he uses up one of his last resorts - allows his country's currency to depreciate.
This dollar depreciation started 12 months ago - and still the US economy hasn't sparked.
Trade deficit continues to grow, job creation is sluggish.
Budget deficit is still too high.

What keeps the US economy going ? Oil.
Thus the Middle East, through no fault of it's own, has risen in profile because
a Moron happens to be dwelling in the White House and has neither the mental capacity or the ability to manage his economy.

Europe has made progress with Iran through the IAEA.
I don't think that Bush would have any support, from anywhere, for an invasion of Iran.
I would go further, I think that if he did invade Iran - more fronts would open up against the USA which could include Europe.
US companies based abroad - would the become legitimate targets for retaliation.
US people living abroad would be targetted and rightly targetted.

The international community were lied to once - they won't tolerate being lied to again.

That may be the case. But there's a risk of underestimating Bush and his Administration. As one French journalist pointed out on breakfast TV, you could reason with politicians such as Reagan since that administration was rational. However, reasoning with Bush and his advisers is a different kettle of fish entirely as they are not rational people.
The current evidence points to the fact Bush is certainly planning to invade Iran. Maybe it will be an air-campaign as opposed to actually sending in any ground troops as they did in Iraq.

MountainPro said:

Iran is 4 times bigger that Iraq and has 3 times the population...

look how difficult the war was in Iraq....i doubt there will be as many allies this time around either and support in the US will be at an all time low.

the US couldnt sink any lower in the estimation of the rest of the world, what have they got to lose...

i personally dont think that they will chance a war with Iran..

Carrera said:

That may be the case. But there's a risk of underestimating Bush and his Administration. As one French journalist pointed out on breakfast TV, you could reason with politicians such as Reagan since that administration was rational. However, reasoning with Bush and his advisers is a different kettle of fish entirely as they are not rational people.
The current evidence points to the fact Bush is certainly planning to invade Iran. Maybe it will be an air-campaign as opposed to actually sending in any ground troops as they did in Iraq.

It would be fatal move on Bush's part, I think.
I think even his own people realise they have a clown in office.
If he tried that, the Yanks themselves would take action against him.

He is on shaky ground at present in Iraq - domestically.

Sure, my own sentiment is that Bush's final downfall will come from within the U.S. itself. As Madonna stated, when she visits the U.S. she finds that people genuinely believe Iraq was behind 9/11 and that Bush's invasion of Iraq was a positive step towards their own security. So, Bush conned a very nervous electorate. But at some point, people will begin to ask a lot more questions and criticize Bush more and more.
What would happen in the U.S. if Bush invaded Iran (probably an air campaign)? States such as New York would see large street protests but other states like Texas would probably back the president. Clearly the U.K. would probably abstain and Europe would be outraged. Russia would be critical but would probably feel closer to the Administration than Europe, seeing as Russia has a terrorist problem within its borders. China wouldn't be too concerned I imagine.
Myself, I believe it's genuinely on the cards and I think it will involve some kind of air campaign to try and destabilise the regime within Iran.

limerickman said:

It would be fatal move on Bush's part, I think.
I think even his own people realise they have a clown in office.
If he tried that, the Yanks themselves would take action against him.

He is on shaky ground at present in Iraq - domestically.

This is bad, real bad. We need to get this man out of office. What if he re-enstates the draft?🙁 From the way things look, if iran & syria are next, a draft is possible. I am now 14, & 4 years...............

limerickman said:

It would be fatal move on Bush's part, I think.
I think even his own people realise they have a clown in office.
If he tried that, the Yanks themselves would take action against him.

He is on shaky ground at present in Iraq - domestically.

It would be terminal for Merkia, not Bush. Conscription, and volunteers would be needed, you know, like General White Feather and Marion Wayneker. They can't fight the flab, never mind a war. On the other hand they could all do a Muhammed Ali and refuse as conscientious objectors. It seems to me that that nice Condi Rice is now officially Bush's PR person, 'cos he's blown his chips in the world poker game, and she's going to charm them with a piano recital, a free programme, and a glass of white wine.
Please request your odds for the game, I'll see what I can do.

Here's what Seymour Hersh wrote:

"'The planning for Iran is going ahead even though Iraq is a mess," Hersh said. "I think they really think there's a chance to do something in Iran, perhaps by summer, to get the intelligence on the sites'.
He added, 'The guys on the inside really want to do this.'"

And again according to a report by CNN:

"Hersh said U.S. officials believe that a U.S. attack on Iran might provoke an uprising by Iranians against the hard-line religious leaders who run the government. Similar arguments were made ahead of the invasion of Iraq, when administration officials predicted U.S. troops would be welcomed as liberators."

Donald Rumsfeld was quoted as saying:

'Let me run this war, not the CIA. We can do it better. We'll send our boys in. We don't have to tell their local military commanders. We don't have to tell the ambassadors. We don't have to tell the CIA station chiefs in various countries. Let's go in and work with the bad guys and see what we can find out.'"

The full article can be found on the CNN page below:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/hersh.iran/

To try and grasp the current mentality, you have to consider the whole perspective. Firstly, Iran is very close to attaining nuclear weapons - something Israel can't tolerate (a bit like the fear seen in the U.S. when missiles were based on Cuba). So, it would seem U.S. policy is closely linked to Israeli security concerns. Plus the Bush Administration is reckless and somewhat fanatical, which inspires little confidence the mess in the Middle East won't become an even bigger mess.

Countries such as Russia are also probably wary of a nuclear armed Iran and the possible threat that could imply, should a mad mullah get his proverbial finger on the button, so to speak. But obviously Europe considers any military option to be too dangerous to consider. Certainly one mistake the Europeans have made here is to alienate Russia by interfering in the Ukraine and attempting to lure the Ukraine into the European sphere. That has really [censored] Putin off big time. It may well mean there will be less diplomatic pressure on the Administration not to invade Iran if Russia decides not to side with Europe diplomatically. In fact, Putin now seems to prefer Bush to Europe given some European countries have held meetings with representatives of Chechnyan separatists.

China is probably not really interested in U.S. Middle Eastern policy since it doesn't really effect China.

ryan_velo. said:

This is bad, real bad. We need to get this man out of office. What if he re-enstates the draft?🙁 From the way things look, if iran & syria are next, a draft is possible. I am now 14, & 4 years...............

FredC said:

It would be terminal for Merkia, not Bush. Conscription, and volunteers would be needed, you know, like General White Feather and Marion Wayneker. They can't fight the flab, never mind a war. On the other hand they could all do a Muhammed Ali and refuse as conscientious objectors. It seems to me that that nice Condi Rice is now officially Bush's PR person, 'cos he's blown his chips in the world poker game, and she's going to charm them with a piano recital, a free programme, and a glass of white wine.
Please request your odds for the game, I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for the promotion but I suspect its only in jest. "fight the flab"? I have never had a weight problem. In fact, I am only ~5 pounds (2.2 kg) heavier now than when I got out of the US Army. Still far under the maximum weight allowed. The DA still knows where I live if they need me.

Now Iran would be hard pressed to raise an army which is exactly why they are going non-conventional. They know their large youth population (70% under the age of 20) is yearning for an end of the fundamentalist regime. Just like East Germany. Just like China. Just like the FSU. East Germany is gone. China adopted capitalism. The FSU is gone.

While the current Regular Army, Reserve Army and Nation Guard units are heavily tasked due to Iraq and Afghanistan, the retention rates have never been higher. Couple in the draw downs in Korea and Europe and there is no need for a draft, unless you are Charlie Rangel.

Weisse Luft said:

Thanks for the promotion but I suspect its only in jest. "fight the flab"? I have never had a weight problem. In fact, I am only ~5 pounds (2.2 kg) heavier now than when I got out of the US Army. Still far under the maximum weight allowed. The DA still knows where I live if they need me.

Now Iran would be hard pressed to raise an army which is exactly why they are going non-conventional. They know their large youth population (70% under the age of 20) is yearning for an end of the fundamentalist regime. Just like East Germany. Just like China. Just like the FSU. East Germany is gone. China adopted capitalism. The FSU is gone.

While the current Regular Army, Reserve Army and Nation Guard units are heavily tasked due to Iraq and Afghanistan, the retention rates have never been higher. Couple in the draw downs in Korea and Europe and there is no need for a draft, unless you are Charlie Rangel.

And here endeth the latest Radio Israel Propoganda Transmission.
This special broadcast was proudly sponsored by NM Rothschild and Marks and Spencer, Steven Spielberg.

(Caveat : all information contained in this transmission is selective on the basis of which way the wind is blowing, the value of the Shekel.......continued on page 1,157).

limerickman said:

And here endeth the latest Radio Israel Propoganda Transmission.
This special broadcast was proudly sponsored by NM Rothschild and Marks and Spencer, Steven Spielberg.

(Caveat : all information contained in this transmission is selective on the basis of which way the wind is blowing, the value of the Shekel.......continued on page 1,157).

The producer of the above reply is none other than Mary Mapes.

Lim, crawl back into your bottle of whisky. I have never been to nor do I ever want to go to Israel.

Weisse Luft said:

Thanks for the promotion but I suspect its only in jest. "fight the flab"? I have never had a weight problem. In fact, I am only ~5 pounds (2.2 kg) heavier now than when I got out of the US Army. Still far under the maximum weight allowed. The DA still knows where I live if they need me.

Now Iran would be hard pressed to raise an army which is exactly why they are going non-conventional. They know their large youth population (70% under the age of 20) is yearning for an end of the fundamentalist regime. Just like East Germany. Just like China. Just like the FSU. East Germany is gone. China adopted capitalism. The FSU is gone.

While the current Regular Army, Reserve Army and Nation Guard units are heavily tasked due to Iraq and Afghanistan, the retention rates have never been higher. Couple in the draw downs in Korea and Europe and there is no need for a draft, unless you are Charlie Rangel.

At least I know you ride your bike quite a bit. A bit of promotion does no harm here and there, especially with the state of the game at the moment. I know roor old Regan degenerated in later life, but Bush is showing serious symptons of meglomania right now. America will get no help from the rest of the world this time. What baffles me is that Merkia wants the Sunni's (Hussein) out of control, and wants the Shia's in charge. The Iranians are in general Shia's, so why threaten them as religious zealots and inhuman maniacs.
So in this case tell me if the Shia's are so morally incomplete and backward, why do they allow males and females to have sex change operations and act in their new roles as full citizens without hinderance. Homosexuality is still an offence.
Join the army, see interesting places, and kill people.
On the other hand, weren't you a pencil pusher, and why didn't you join the Israeli army. If you were top grade, it doesn't bode well for todays lot. At least you can ride your bike under the influence of alcohol.

FredC said:

At least I know you ride your bike quite a bit. A bit of promotion does no harm here and there, especially with the state of the game at the moment. I know roor old Regan degenerated in later life, but Bush is showing serious symptons of meglomania right now. America will get no help from the rest of the world this time. What baffles me is that Merkia wants the Sunni's (Hussein) out of control, and wants the Shia's in charge. The Iranians are in general Shia's, so why threaten them as religious zealots and inhuman maniacs.
So in this case tell me if the Shia's are so morally incomplete and backward, why do they allow males and females to have sex change operations and act in their new roles as full citizens without hinderance. Homosexuality is still an offence.
Join the army, see interesting places, and kill people.
On the other hand, weren't you a pencil pusher, and why didn't you join the Israeli army. If you were top grade, it doesn't bode well for todays lot. At least you can ride your bike under the influence of alcohol.

Is it coincidence that Fred brings up sex change operations?

Weisse Luft said:

The producer of the above reply is none other than Mary Mapes.

Lim, crawl back into your bottle of whisky. I have never been to nor do I ever want to go to Israel.

I didn't know that you didn't want to go to Israel, I thought that you had already been. I am sympathetic to you that your antecedents and their families withhold information from you from the genealogy aspect, when you only want to connect with paper construction. The only conclusion is that you are now a 'mischlinge', and not a thoroughbred. I'm surprised by this.

Weisse Luft said:

The producer of the above reply is none other than Mary Mapes.

Lim, crawl back into your bottle of whisky. I have never been to nor do I ever want to go to Israel.

If this is the case - that you have never been to nor do you ever want to go to Israel - how come you said that you intended to travel to Israel in a post last year ?

You remember that, don't ya ?

Do I have to get the link where you posted that intention ?

Squirmy Returns said:

Is it coincidence that Fred brings up sex change operations?

I'm so sorry squirter that you cannot last long before being reminded of your cottaging absent father. May I suggest that you read up on the Claudius Complex. I always knew that there was some vestige of hope for you, because you were one of the few Merkians who has worked out to use the spell-checker.
When did Bush have his op. in trying to turn him into a man?
Why didn't you post properly in the first place, instead of supping hilly billy hooch?

FredC said:

At least I know you ride your bike quite a bit. A bit of promotion does no harm here and there, especially with the state of the game at the moment. I know roor old Regan degenerated in later life, but Bush is showing serious symptons of meglomania right now. America will get no help from the rest of the world this time. What baffles me is that Merkia wants the Sunni's (Hussein) out of control, and wants the Shia's in charge. The Iranians are in general Shia's, so why threaten them as religious zealots and inhuman maniacs.
So in this case tell me if the Shia's are so morally incomplete and backward, why do they allow males and females to have sex change operations and act in their new roles as full citizens without hinderance. Homosexuality is still an offence.
Join the army, see interesting places, and kill people.
On the other hand, weren't you a pencil pusher, and why didn't you join the Israeli army. If you were top grade, it doesn't bode well for todays lot. At least you can ride your bike under the influence of alcohol.

Pencil pusher? Not quite. That would be non-ops in the AF. The only graphite jockeys in the Army work in offices with five walls. More times than not, my office had fabric walls and horrible HVAC.

Now, on Iraq. Its called federalism. Where multiple factions can iron out their differences without literal bloodshed. But this would be a strange concept to Euros until recently. Look of it as establishing a Kurd state, a Shia state and a Sunni state. Sure, the Sunni's have a hatred for the Shia but its nothing different than the differences between the United State's "big state/small state" debate. And federalism was sufficiently robust to survive a war between the states, emerging only stronger.

limerickman said:

If this is the case - that you have never been to nor do you ever want to go to Israel - how come you said that you intended to travel to Israel in a post last year ?

You remember that, don't ya ?

Do I have to get the link where you posted that intention ?

I have my reasons.

Weisse Luft said:

I have my reasons.

Yeah I remember it now - I think you were "meeting" some female here on the message board, and you said that you were intending to travel to the land of milk and honey.
T'was before X-Mas.

But today, you say you never want to go to Israel.
I can agree with that sentiment.

But I am curious - you say one thing, at one time and then you contradict it at
another time.
I know this is a trait with you.

It's called duplicity.
And thus, people can never trust youse.