Bulletproof Accessories for Bikers?

Damn guy you must be wearin one of those dinosaur jerseys.

Robert

Hi Steve, Understand your problem. If you get hit without warning, nothing will/can stop that, even
Kevlar. The best you can do is workout a system where your weapon is readily accessible, you do
have a weapon don't you, then become as proficient with it as you can. Think of it as cleaning out
the gene pool a bit. Remember, on a bike under that type of attack, you are in fear for your life.
I've only had to fire three rounds, all three were placed into the vehicle from approx 10yds, their
facial expressions, as the saying goes, were priceless. Expected follow-up problems on the
remainder of my ride, none developed from any quarter. Nothing in the papers afterwards, so my aim
was a little off. Whatever you may think of this, remember.... I DID NOT START the problem, and I
was on a bicycle.

~~ O ~\ ~~~ \_ / \ % \ ~ ( ® ) =====/ ( o )

"Steve McDonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable
for bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may
need such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

Several days ago, a rider on a small motorcycle was gunned down by a flurry of shots from
Yahoos in a high-axle, oversized pickup with a row of spotlights on top. He was riding on
McGowan Creek Rd., NE of Eugene, which has been one of my favorite places for a climbing
workout. He was struck in the shoulder, but was able to continue and evade his attackers. He
then rode home, where someone drove him to an emergency room. It's obvious that these
[censored] intended to kill him and apparently regard picking off bikers as great sport.
They're still running loose and I imagine that a bicycle rider would be just as good a target
for them.

Last Winter, a mile from home, some teenagers with a CO2-powered, semi-automatic firing BB
gun, sent about a dozen shots at me, as I rode by them at night. Only a couple BBs hit me and
just bounced off, but a hit in an eye would have been disastrous. That's when I started
wearing clear, wraparound goggles at night. The kids ran like jackrabbits up a railroad track
and were never caught. As society gets crazier, these kinds of incidents are happening more
often. It's another good argument for riding on separate bikepaths, where motorists are
absent and drugged-out psychos are less numerous.

Another recent incident involved about a dozen guys, hopped up on meth, charging out of a
house at me, as I rode my bike slowly by on the sidewalk at 2 am. They screamed and cursed at
me, saying I had no right to pass in front of their house. The head thug was about 5' 10" and
425 lbs. When he lunged at my bike, to knock me off, he tripped and fell. I almost made the
mistake of stopping, but wisely decided to keep going and left the horde behind. A friend on
foot has also been attacked by them, but ran them off with the heavy, 3-foot "death stick" he
carries. The response of the police to these incidents was to tell us to stay away from their
house. They claimed to have some surveillance on them and didn't want to make any premature
moves before a big bust sometime in the future. I've heard this same story from the cops
before. Would they really tell you, if they had such plans?

Steve McDonald

This is so unbelievable, it sounds lik a troll.

Steve McDonald said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable for
bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may need such
things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

Sorry, I can't imagine where to get that stuff.

Quoted message said:

Several days ago, a rider on a small motorcycle was gunned down by a flurry of shots from Yahoos
in a high-axle, oversized pickup with a row of spotlights on top. He was riding on McGowan Creek
Rd., NE of Eugene, which has been one of my favorite places for a climbing workout.

I just looked this up. In Oregon, then?

Quoted message said:

He was struck in the shoulder, but was able to continue and evade his attackers. He then rode
home, where someone drove him to an emergency room. It's obvious that these [censored] intended to
kill him and apparently regard picking off bikers as great sport. They're still running loose and
I imagine that a bicycle rider would be just as good a target for them.

A bicycle rider wouldn't be protected by bulletproof clothing. A high-axle, oversized pickup can't
win the race against a motorcycle, but can easily enough run you over, unless you can find some
REALLY dense forest, where the trees are too closely spaced to fit the truck but the surface is
smooth enough for your bike.

Quoted message said:

semi-automatic firing BB gun, sent about a dozen shots at me, as I rode

Quoted message said:

kinds of incidents are happening more often. It's another good argument for riding on separate
bikepaths, where motorists are absent and drugged-out psychos are less numerous.

It sounds like a good argument for carrying a loaded pistol, to me.

Quoted message said:

Another recent incident involved about a dozen guys, hopped up on meth, charging out of a house at
me, as I rode my bike slowly by on the

Okay, forget the gun. It sounds to me like you're pretty dumb to keep riding in the face of all
that danger.

Maybe you should find a different place to ride.

How can you stand to live in such an area? And without your own handgun, and a permit to carry it
(if required)?

Quoted message said:

The response of the police to these incidents was to tell us to stay away from their house. They
claimed to have some surveillance on them and didn't want to make any premature moves before a big
bust sometime in the future. I've heard this same story from the cops before. Would they really
tell you, if they had such plans?

Maybe. If they don't take action soon, you might try writing a letter or an article for your local
newspaper. Let the whole community know!

Of course, then you'll be subject to harassment by the cops.

Quoted message said:

Steve McDonald

--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

This is so unbelievable, it sounds like a troll. How can you stand to live in such a place? You
need to find a different place to ride. Etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a link to the article about the motorcyclist being shot, from our local newspaper.
Scroll down to the middle of the text in this "Briefly" section for the unheadlined beginning
of the story. registerguard.comd3.cr.digest.0903.htmlOpen ↗

As for these incidents I described, I don't think things around here are any worse or different
than in other parts of the country or the world. We generally have a low level of violent crime
here, but as overpopulation and its conflicts sweep over us all, our region suffers along with
everywhere else.

I do ride many other places, but thugs like those in that pickup
"gunship" may be anyplace I could go. In fact, I wouldn't expect that
bunch to return to that road soon, but to go hunting some distance away.

As for arming myself, it would be futile in avoiding random and unexpected assaults from
passing vehicles. When I went through a police academy, I tied another cadet for the highest
score in pistol shooting, but I'd likely accomplish nothing but getting myself in deep trouble
if I tried to use that ability on the road. A friend who takes long hikes on the local roads
and trails every day, has carried a concealed pistol for 10 years. He has never had occasion to
draw it, which is to his credit. However, he says the first day he left it behind, would be
when he would need it. Its value to him is that it makes him feel more secure. If I packed one,
I'd feel less secure, knowing what I might be goaded into doing with it. I'd like to think my
self-control would win out, but who knows what could happen? After all, I have been known to
ride a mountain bike, on occasion.

The threat of having a gun to use is much more effective than in actually using it. But, if
it's concealed, how would it have any value to ward off assaults? Only if people knew you had a
hidden weapon, would it be a deterent and then someone might pick you off with a sucker shot.

In 3 years as a policeman, I drew my .45 just 3 times, never firing
it. I was shot only once, by "friendly" fire from another officer, who should neither have drawn
nor fired his weapon at an undetermined target, not considering that I was in the line of fire,
some distance away. Most often, when people fire guns at others, much more trouble is
generated, than is solved. I've never yet encountered a threat against which I might have
effectively used a gun, that I wasn't able to either avoid or resolve without firing one.
Obviously, my military service came in peacetime. If we get invaded by an armed enemy,
everything I just stated is suspended.

Steve McDonald

Quoted message said:

If we get invaded by an armed enemy, everything I just stated is suspended.

Some would say that our enemy is here, and armed with cars. I wouldn't completely disagree
with that.

Peter

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Steve McDonald)

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Several days ago, a rider on a small motorcycle was gunned down by a flurry of shots from Yahoos in
a high-axle, oversized pickup with a row of spotlights on top. He was riding on McGowan Creek Rd.,
NE of Eugene, which has been one of my favorite places for a climbing workout. He was struck in the
shoulder, but was able to continue and evade his attackers. He then rode home, where someone drove
him to an emergency room. It's obvious that these [censored] intended to kill him and apparently
regard picking off bikers as great sport. They're still running loose and I imagine that a bicycle
rider would be just as good a target for them.

Don't believe everything you read and when you do read something try reading carefully. I read the
article and it turns out that your "flurry of shots" was one shot and far from being "gunned down"
the wounded person *drove home* and called the police. He didn't drive to the hospital or the police
station. He went home. This gave him time to think up a story, one the police couldn't easily
disprove and one likely to be much better for him than the truth would be. IOW, he *lied* so you can
rest easy. Nobody's gunning for you.

Regards, Bob Hunt

Bob Hunt said:

Don't believe everything you read------

--------------------------------------------------------------

Well, you didn't read either my message or the linked article as carefully as you might have.
The article stated that the victim said he heard several shots at the time he was hit in the
shoulder. I included in my posting a reference about how he had ridden home after the incident.

Your presumption that this biker was lying and fabricated the incident is unfounded. No
evidence of this has been presented and unless you have a secret line of information, you
couldn't know one way or the other. I believe you mentioned once that you are a police officer.
It's not encouraging that a policeman would be that cynical and disbelieving of a claim made
about a potentially deadly assault, without any more knowledge of it than this.

Steve McDonald

When the police come to talk to women here about protecting themselves they always say - "if someone
has a gun on you run like hell, its hard to hit a moving target"

so ride your bike as fast and as far away as you can.

The odds are still with you. I think you have more of a chance of being hit by 2000 pound bullet
than a 1/2 oz one.

take care Liz

Hey! Look what [email hidden] (Steve McDonald) wrote :

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable for
bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may need
such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

Several days ago, a rider on a small motorcycle was gunned down by a flurry of shots from
Yahoos in a high-axle, oversized pickup with a row of spotlights on top. He was riding on
McGowan Creek Rd., NE of Eugene, which has been one of my favorite places for a climbing
workout. He was struck in the shoulder, but was able to continue and evade his attackers. He
then rode home, where someone drove him to an emergency room. It's obvious that these [censored]
intended to kill him and apparently regard picking off bikers as great sport. They're still
running loose and I imagine that a bicycle rider would be just as good a target for them.

Last Winter, a mile from home, some teenagers with a CO2-powered, semi-automatic firing BB
gun, sent about a dozen shots at me, as I rode by them at night. Only a couple BBs hit me and
just bounced off, but a hit in an eye would have been disastrous. That's when I started
wearing clear, wraparound goggles at night. The kids ran like jackrabbits up a railroad track
and were never caught. As society gets crazier, these kinds of incidents are happening more
often. It's another good argument for riding on separate bikepaths, where motorists are absent
and drugged-out psychos are less numerous.

Another recent incident involved about a dozen guys, hopped up on meth, charging out of a
house at me, as I rode my bike slowly by on the sidewalk at 2 am. They screamed and cursed at
me, saying I had no right to pass in front of their house. The head thug was about 5' 10" and
425 lbs. When he lunged at my bike, to knock me off, he tripped and fell. I almost made the
mistake of stopping, but wisely decided to keep going and left the horde behind. A friend on
foot has also been attacked by them, but ran them off with the heavy, 3-foot "death stick" he
carries. The response of the police to these incidents was to tell us to stay away from their
house. They claimed to have some surveillance on them and didn't want to make any premature
moves before a big bust sometime in the future. I've heard this same story from the cops
before. Would they really tell you, if they had such plans?

Steve McDonald

Steve McDonald said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable
for bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may
need such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

** amazing stories snipped **

Sweet Jesus, I'd consider moving before buying Kevlar. It sounds like where you live is Freaking
Thunderdome.

I live in Beaverton, Oregon and I can gladly say in my 3 years commuting in Beaverton, Portland and
other parts of the metro area I've never had a single object thrown at me, much less been shot at.

Preston

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve McDonald said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable
for bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may
need such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

** amazing stories snipped **

Sweet Jesus, I'd consider moving before buying Kevlar. It sounds like where you live is Freaking
Thunderdome.

I live in Beaverton, Oregon and I can gladly say in my 3 years commuting in Beaverton, Portland
and other parts of the metro area I've never had a single object thrown at me, much less been
shot at.

I've had things thrown at me in the Bay Area, and NOT East Palo Alto or Hunters Point, but in
Cupertino and Dublin. I'm no NRA nut, but I'm considering arming myself if I keep commuting
by bicycle.

In San Francisco, probably 10 years or so ago, some punk tried to knock a guy off his bike,
presumably to steal it. The bicyclist shot and killed him and took off. They never found the
bicyclist, but I doubt if they spent a lot of time looking either.

x-no-archive:yes

Quoted message said:

Sweet Jesus, I'd consider moving before buying Kevlar. It sounds like where you live is Freaking
Thunderdome.

I live in Beaverton, Oregon and I can gladly say in my 3 years commuting in Beaverton, Portland
and other parts of the metro area I've never had a single object thrown at me, much less been
shot at.

Preston

But, you know what? I bet you never ride in a likely drug neighborhood at 2
a.m., either, as the OP did. There is such a thing as common sense....

Pat in TX who has never been shot at, either.

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve McDonald said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable
for bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may
need such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

** amazing stories snipped **

Sweet Jesus, I'd consider moving before buying Kevlar. It sounds like where you live is Freaking
Thunderdome.

Indeed. I live in redneck Florida and haven't heard anything close to what the OP describes. I've
have a couple of half full beer cans tossed at me, and a few "nice shorts" comments, but no
serious violence. Big problem here is pit bulls. Jesus, do they issue a pit bull with purchase of
a mobile home? On my regular commuting route I usually encounter three aggressive pit bulls.
Sometimes the owners have the gates closed, and sometimes they don't. It makes the ride
interesting, to say the least.

"Slider2699" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve McDonald said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable
for bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may
need such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

** amazing stories snipped **

Sweet Jesus, I'd consider moving before buying Kevlar. It sounds like where you live is Freaking
Thunderdome.

Indeed. I live in redneck Florida and haven't heard anything close to what the OP describes. I've
have a couple of half full beer cans tossed at me, and a few "nice shorts" comments, but no
serious violence. Big problem here is pit bulls. Jesus, do they issue a pit bull with purchase of
a mobile home? On my regular commuting route I usually encounter three aggressive pit bulls.
Sometimes the owners have the gates closed, and sometimes they don't. It makes the ride
interesting, to say the least.

Sounds like a chance for good sprint training. The serious ones don't bark or growl, they just try
to circle around you.

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Steve McDonald)

Quoted message said:

Well, you didn't read either my message or the linked article as carefully as you might have. The
article stated that the victim said he heard several shots at the time he was hit in the
shoulder. I included in my posting a reference about how he had ridden home after the incident.

Your presumption that this biker was lying and fabricated the incident is unfounded. No
evidence of this has been presented and unless you have a secret line of information, you
couldn't know one way or the other. I believe you mentioned once that you are a police
officer. It's not encouraging that a policeman would be that cynical and disbelieving of a
claim made about a potentially deadly assault, without any more knowledge of it than this.

Steve McDonald

Yes, I read both your post and the linked article. That article does indeed say that the alleged
victim claimed that he heard several shots but he was only *hit* once. I interpreted literally your
statement that he "was gunned down by a flurry of shots". I assume that you see the difference
between hearing several gunshots and being struck once and "being gunned down by a flurry of shots".
The latter at least implies being hit numerous times. As for what you term my cynicism, it's a
product of hearing all kinds of these stories (on average, one or two a month) and finding out that
the "victim" is lying about everything except his wound. It's also just commonsense. Think about the
circumstances. This poor innocent was just riding along minding his own business when he was
intentionally shot for no apparent reason by someone he didn't know. He saw his alleged attackers
and hence could conceivably identify them so what did those bloodthirsty thrillseekers do? They
drove off. I can only imagine the conversation in the alleged offenders' vehicle.

Bad guy driver- "There's someone. Shoot him." BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!!! First bad guy-
"Hey, cool! We hit him!" Second bad guy- "Let me finish him off." Bad guy driver- "Oh no, we'll
*wound* total strangers for no other reason than it's fun but we don't want to *kill* them.
Besides, it'll be lots more fun if we let him drive off so he can describe us and our truck to the
police later."

The alleged victim then drove not to the nearest phone or the police station or a hospital but to
his home. Is that what *you* would do if some stranger in a easily identifiable vehicle in a remote
(remote meaning that there aren't that many vehicles around anyway, let alone ones so easily
spotted) area shot *you* for no reason at all?

Regards, Bob Hunt

(Steve McDonald) said:

Does anyone know of a good source of Kevlar or other types of bulletproof vests, suitable for
bicyclists? How about helmets and fairings that would deflect bullets? I think I may need
such things if I'm going to continue riding on remote roads in my area.

Kevlar soft body armour ("bullet proof" is a misnomer, no manufacturer calls it that) is typically
sold by police supply houses, but...
a) few reputable ones will sell to civilians
b) its heavier than it looks
c) be prepared to spend a minimum of $800

(Hunrobe) said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Steve McDonald)

Quoted message said:

Well, you didn't read either my message or the linked article as carefully as you might have.
The article stated that the victim said he heard several shots at the time he was hit in the
shoulder. I included in my posting a reference about how he had ridden home after the incident.

Your presumption that this biker was lying and fabricated the incident is unfounded. No
evidence of this has been presented and unless you have a secret line of information, you
couldn't know one way or the other. I believe you mentioned once that you are a police
officer. It's not encouraging that a policeman would be that cynical and disbelieving of a
claim made about a potentially deadly assault, without any more knowledge of it than this.

Steve McDonald

Yes, I read both your post and the linked article. That article does indeed say that the alleged
victim claimed that he heard several shots but he was only *hit* once. I interpreted literally your
statement that he "was gunned down by a flurry of shots". I assume that you see the difference
between hearing several gunshots and being struck once and "being gunned down by a flurry of
shots". The latter at least implies being hit numerous times. As for what you term my cynicism,
it's a product of hearing all kinds of these stories (on average, one or two a month) and finding
out that the "victim" is lying about everything except his wound. It's also just commonsense. Think
about the circumstances. This poor innocent was just riding along minding his own business when he
was intentionally shot for no apparent reason by someone he didn't know. He saw his alleged
attackers and hence could conceivably identify them so what did those bloodthirsty thrillseekers
do? They drove off. I can only imagine the conversation in the alleged offenders' vehicle.

Bad guy driver- "There's someone. Shoot him." BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!!! BANG!!!! First bad guy-
"Hey, cool! We hit him!" Second bad guy- "Let me finish him off." Bad guy driver- "Oh no, we'll
*wound* total strangers for no other reason than it's fun but we don't want to *kill* them.
Besides, it'll be lots more fun if we let him drive off so he can describe us and our truck to the
police later."

The alleged victim then drove not to the nearest phone or the police station or a hospital but to
his home. Is that what *you* would do if some stranger in a easily identifiable vehicle in a remote
(remote meaning that there aren't that many vehicles around anyway, let alone ones so easily
spotted) area shot *you* for no reason at all?

Regards, Bob Hunt

Bingo!

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... [...]

Quoted message said:

As for what you term my cynicism, it's a product of hearing all kinds of

these

Quoted message said:

stories (on average, one or two a month) and finding out that the "victim"

is

Quoted message said:

lying about everything except his wound. It's also just commonsense. Think about the
circumstances. This poor innocent was just riding along minding

his

Quoted message said:

own business when he was intentionally shot for no apparent reason by

someone

Quoted message said:

he didn't know.

Ever hear of road rage? I'm sure you're cycnical for good reason. But can't you allow for the
_possibility_ that the guy is an innocent bystander?

But I do understand the cynicism. A while back I saw an segment on 'Cops' where the to John Q.'s
answer a call from a white California surfer dude type. It seems a couple of big black gangbangers
had stolen his motorcycle. It seemed rather sraight forward to me but the cops said: wait a minute.
They were suspicious of what surfer dude was doing in that area. They got him to admit he was
trying to score some bud and the dealers had taken his bike. I never thought along those lines,
watching the show but the police were right to be suspicious given the neighbourhood [i.e. white
surfer dude in a poor black area]. But what really depressed me was the thought that the good ol'
Ewe Ess uv Eh is so unofficially segregated by race and wealth that public areas are unofficially
off-limits based on race and class.

Still why couldn't the original story be as reported? An LE should be suspicious but not paranoid.
It could have been a road rage and the cyclist went home instead of to a hospital because: He
didn't realize he was shot, didn't know what to do, was in shock, confused.

[...] He saw his alleged attackers and hence could conceivably

Quoted message said:

identify them so what did those bloodthirsty thrillseekers do? They drove

off.

Quoted message said:

I can only imagine the conversation in the alleged offenders' vehicle.

A couple of rednecks letting off a few rounds then hightailing it without knowing whether they
actually hit anyone or whether they're dead? I can believe that. [...]

Quoted message said:

The alleged victim then drove not to the nearest phone or the police

station or

Quoted message said:

a hospital but to his home. Is that what *you* would do if some stranger

in a

Quoted message said:

easily identifiable vehicle in a remote (remote meaning that there aren't

that

Quoted message said:

many vehicles around anyway, let alone ones so easily spotted) area shot

*you*

Quoted message said:

for no reason at all?

I repeat: Road rage. It's been in all papers.

--
'Sell your sin Just cash in' -Jewell

Steve McDonald said:

As for these incidents I described, I don't think things around here are any worse or different
than in other parts of the country or the world. We generally have a low level of violent crime
here, but as overpopulation and its conflicts sweep over us all, our region suffers along with
everywhere else.

Well, come to Rhode Island. The crime and thuggery happens in the form of governemnt corruption,
rather than personal danger...unless you venture into the, er, lower-class urban areas.

Quoted message said:

I do ride many other places, but thugs like those in that pickup "gunship" may be anyplace I could
go. In fact, I wouldn't expect that bunch to return to that road soon, but to go hunting some
distance away.

I can't say as I recall anything like that ever happening around here.

Quoted message said:

As for arming myself, it would be futile in avoiding random and unexpected assaults from passing
vehicles. When I went through a police

No, it wouldn't be futile. You will either kill the offenders, or discourage them from doing it
again. Either way, the good guys win.

Of course, if you kill one of them, you end up in trouble, but if I lived somewhere where I had that
kind of stuff to fear, and was unwilling to move far away, I'd certainly put my clean record on the
line for the greater good.

Heheh..easier said than done, I bet. We'll see if I ever get a chance to put my money where
my mouth is.

Quoted message said:

packed one, I'd feel less secure, knowing what I might be goaded into doing with it. I'd like to
think my self-control would win out, but who

Maybe, god forbid, you would do away with some of our societal garbage. How do we benefit from
having thugs who shoot random road users? Are they otherwise nice people, volunteering to help
disabled war veterans or something?

Quoted message said:

knows what could happen? After all, I have been known to ride a mountain bike, on occasion.

Bah! You die-hard roadies are all the same.

Road and mountain biking are complimentary excersizes. Doing both improves both more than the sum of
doing each individually. This, from experience.

Quoted message said:

The threat of having a gun to use is much more effective than in actually using it. But, if it's
concealed, how would it have any value

Actually using it is rather effective; a dead [censored] can't shoot another defenseless rider.

Quoted message said:

to ward off assaults? Only if people knew you had a hidden weapon, would it be a deterent

Don't conceal it; show it off, if you want a deterrant.

Quoted message said:

and then someone might pick you off with a sucker shot.

As opposed to the way it is for you now? They are already picking people off with sucker shots.

Quoted message said:

In 3 years as a policeman, I drew my .45 just 3 times, never firing

Great record, especially given the crime you must have dealt with (unless you didn't do it in the
area where you now ride).

Quoted message said:

it. I was shot only once, by "friendly" fire from another officer, who should neither have drawn
nor fired his weapon at an undetermined target, not considering that I was in the line of
fire, some distance

How bad was it? I hope you weren't too badly injured.

OTOH, here in RI, we had a standoff situation, at 3am on a saturday night or some such, in a dense
urban area at a diner; then, an off-duty officer, dressed like a scumbag, rushed out of the diner
with his weapon raised and did not identify himself after being repeated commanded to do so,
resulting in his being killed by the on-duty officers responding to the original event. I hope you
never make that mistake.

I hope nobody ever makes that mistake, because it is fatal. Strangely, or maybe not so strange,
people turned it into a racial issue, saying that the guy was shot because he was black, and his
mother sued the police department, etc...

Quoted message said:

away. Most often, when people fire guns at others, much more trouble is generated, than is solved.
I've never yet encountered a threat against which I might have effectively used a gun, that I
wasn't able to either avoid or resolve without firing one. Obviously, my military service came in
peacetime. If we get invaded by an armed enemy, everything I just stated is suspended.

The situation you live in is not peace, it IS war. Just because it's against the individuals that
make up the dregs of our society, does not mean that force is inappropriate. They will continue as
long as they can force you to wear a bulletproof vest and helmet while bicycling.

Once they find their lives are in as much danger, it will no longer be worth continuing; and those
who do continue will become extinct.

In suggesting carrying guns, I've often cited a statistic I read that Vermont had the second lowest
violent, non-violent, and combined crime rates (second only to North Dakota, whose residents are
primarily cows); and noted that Vermont legislates only that it's own towns may not make any gun
laws -- so anybody is allowed to have, carry, and/or conceal any weapon as allowed by federal law.

I just googled it up, and found that while it's not always exactly 2nd lowest, it is within the best
6 for most of the ways you can view the statistics at
disastercenter.comvtcrime.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Steve McDonald

--
Rick Onanian

bgaudet0801 said:

Still why couldn't the original story be as reported? An LE should be suspicious but not paranoid.
It could have been a road rage and the cyclist went home instead of to a hospital because: He
didn't realize he was shot, didn't know what to do, was in shock, confused.

...or he was hurt, closer to home than a hospital, and went the first place he could think of to
call for help.

--
Rick Onanian