Building your own bike

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am considering building my next bike myself. I don't know if anyone
sells plans, people design their own, no one ever bothers to do this,
or even if there might be common kits out there. I am open to all
types of bikes. Just interested in finding out what options might be
out there from people that have done it.

"building" meaning assembling the components on a purchased frame or
attempting to weld a frame yourself?

If the former, not really a big deal with a number of hand tools. If the
latter, you're into some fairly complex matters requiring some fairly heavy
equipment to do this properly. There is (or at least used to be) a
framebuilder's email list, with some fairly good info. ...but you're
speaking about either a lathe or vertical mill and some way to hold tubes to
cut and miter at precise angles. ...or cutting and filing by hand, and that
takes much time and practice. ...and then a tig welder with some specialized
set-ups. ...unless you want to do an older-type brazed joint and then you
will need a torch. ...and an expensive frame jig to hold everything in
place (although I have seen some homemade inexpensive wooden jigs). ...and
then some specialized cycle reamers to face the bottom-bracket and
head-tubes, and some alignment tools for the rear derailleurs and to clean
up the inside of the seat tube after welding. ...figure about 500-$1000 for
the hand tools alone.

....but if you have access to a machine shop and want to custom make some of
your own jigs, you can get tubes and all other necessary supplies from
on-line sources.

I've listed a few sites below. ...and if you're serious, I may have a
number of the high-quality frame building tools that are necessary that I've
considered selling. ...not so sure that I want to part with them, however.

Jeff

http://www.timpaterek.com/

http://www.henryjames.com/

http://www.anvilbikes.com/

http://www.bikeschool.com/store/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

I just recently got back into biking. As a kid, I practically lived
on a old beat up 10 speed. How it took the abuse I gave it was
amazing.

I just bought a Schwinn Rocket mountain bike. I am having a blast,
but I am hardly in the shape I once was, but that happens when you are
near 50. From what I am reading here, it is an entry level. Yet it
is the nicest shifting bike I have ever owned.

I am considering building my next bike myself. I don't know if anyone
sells plans, people design their own, no one ever bothers to do this,
or even if there might be common kits out there. I am open to all
types of bikes. Just interested in finding out what options might be
out there from people that have done it.

If you know how to weld or braze steel, the parts can be purchased, but
it is a pretty advanced project. You could also mold your own frame from
carbon fibre, which is a surprisingly common technique for hobbyists:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/

Read all the stuff in the "Carbon Fibre" section.

If you're just building up a cruiser or hacked-up bike, you can use
simpler, heavier steels, which are even easier to weld:

http://dclxvi.org/chunk/meet/index.html

Note that any bike you build yourself, even out of carbon fibre, is
likely to be so much heavier than commercial offerings, and take so long
to build, that you would be better off taking a night job at 7-11 and
buying a nice bike once you had saved up enough of your salary.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

I just recently got back into biking. As a kid, I practically lived
on a old beat up 10 speed. How it took the abuse I gave it was
amazing.

Quoted message said:

I just bought a Schwinn Rocket mountain bike. I am having a blast,
but I am hardly in the shape I once was, but that happens when you are
near 50. From what I am reading here, it is an entry level. Yet it
is the nicest shifting bike I have ever owned.

Quoted message said:

I am considering building my next bike myself. I don't know if anyone
sells plans, people design their own, no one ever bothers to do this,
or even if there might be common kits out there. I am open to all
types of bikes. Just interested in finding out what options might be
out there from people that have done it.

If you know how to weld or braze steel, the parts can be purchased, but
it is a pretty advanced project. You could also mold your own frame from
carbon fibre, which is a surprisingly common technique for hobbyists:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/

Read all the stuff in the "Carbon Fibre" section.

If you're just building up a cruiser or hacked-up bike, you can use
simpler, heavier steels, which are even easier to weld:

http://dclxvi.org/chunk/meet/index.html

Note that any bike you build yourself, even out of carbon fibre, is
likely to be so much heavier than commercial offerings, and take so long
to build, that you would be better off taking a night job at 7-11 and
buying a nice bike once you had saved up enough of your salary.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
cared for it could last a long time as well.

Now welding is new to me, but I have sweated more copper plumbing pipe
than I have ever wanted to do. I soldered a lot of brass musical
instruments many years ago, once building my own.

Thanks for the ideas.

Mark

"Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sep 24, 11:22 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Now welding is new to me, but I have sweated more copper plumbing pipe
than I have ever wanted to do. I soldered a lot of brass musical
instruments many years ago, once building my own.

Thanks for the ideas.

Mark

Then look into a brazed-lugged frame. It isn't all that much different from
soldering copper pipe. ...much hotter, of course, but very similar.

....but for a frame of some quality, you will still need specialized reamers
and facers as I mentioned before. ...and someway to hold the frame in
alignment as you work.

....might be able to get away without precisely facing the BB and headtube,
but you'll end up with scale and other junk inside of the seat tube to the
point that you won't be able to insert a seattube without properly cleaning
it out with a quality seat-tube reamer. I bought a used one years ago from
ebay and had a friend who was both a frame-builder and an instructor at a
machine-shop in a community college modify the thing (using a very large CNC
machine) so that it was perfect for a 27.2mm seattube. ...cost me all of $20
when they would normally be well over $100 for that one reamer alone.

tig welding takes much time to learn. I've practiced for days and am plenty
good enought to weld thick pipe, but no where near good enough to work with
thin bike tubing.

j

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

I just recently got back into biking. As a kid, I practically lived
on a old beat up 10 speed. How it took the abuse I gave it was
amazing.

Quoted message said:

I just bought a Schwinn Rocket mountain bike. I am having a blast,
but I am hardly in the shape I once was, but that happens when you are
near 50. From what I am reading here, it is an entry level. Yet it
is the nicest shifting bike I have ever owned.

Quoted message said:

I am considering building my next bike myself. I don't know if anyone
sells plans, people design their own, no one ever bothers to do this,
or even if there might be common kits out there. I am open to all
types of bikes. Just interested in finding out what options might be
out there from people that have done it.

If you know how to weld or braze steel, the parts can be purchased, but
it is a pretty advanced project. You could also mold your own frame from
carbon fibre, which is a surprisingly common technique for hobbyists:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/

Read all the stuff in the "Carbon Fibre" section.

If you're just building up a cruiser or hacked-up bike, you can use
simpler, heavier steels, which are even easier to weld:

http://dclxvi.org/chunk/meet/index.html

Note that any bike you build yourself, even out of carbon fibre, is
likely to be so much heavier than commercial offerings, and take so long
to build, that you would be better off taking a night job at 7-11 and
buying a nice bike once you had saved up enough of your salary.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
cared for it could last a long time as well.

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

Everything else is the hard part,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:40:53 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

Everything else is the hard part,

Dear Ryan,

"Bamboo frames.--From the discussion on the frame (chap. xxiii.) it
will be seen that when the frame is properly barced, and its members
so arranged that the stresses on them are along their axes, the
maximum tensile or compressive stress on the material is small. If a
steel tube were made as light as possible, with merely sufficient
sectional area to resist these principal stresses, it would be so thin
that it would be unable to resist rough handling, and would speedily
become indented locally. A lighter material with greater thickness,
though of less strength, would resist these local forces better. The
bamboo frame (fig. 262) is an effort in this direction, the bamboo
tubes being stronger locally than steel tubes of equal weight and
external diameter."

--Sharp, "Bicycles & Tricycles," 1896, p.286-7

Wooden and bamboo bicycles were built by several companies and ridden
by ordinary riders, but they offered no real advantages and were
expensive for mass production.

As far as I can tell, wood and bamboo were abandoned except for
novelty items because steel is hard to beat for price and overall
durability.

1897 wood frame lady's bike:

http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/Bike25a.html

Lady's bentwood bicycle:

http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/Bike31a.html

The bamboo bike that Andrew Muzi isn't talking about:

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wlhba/articleView.asp?pg=1&id=10367&pn=0

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/search.asp?id=1130

***

My theory about steel versus bamboo is supported by this page:

"The Bamboo Cycle Company of Holbourne, London, had its works in Petit
Street, off Pountney Street, Wolverhampton. Their machines initially
had frames made of bamboo because it was very strong, lightweight and
free from corrosion. In practice steel proved to be a much better
material for the purpose and so only a few real bamboo bikes were
made."

"Later models were made of steel that was disguised to look like
bamboo. The bicycles were fitted with the patent 'Doolittle' back
pedalling brake and an automatically adjustable handlebar. The
machines were only in production for a few years and it is thought
that only small numbers were made. The company also had premises in
Thomas Street."

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Bamboo.htm

The site above has pictures, but whether the bikes are made of real or
fake bamboo is hard to tell.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

In article <[email hidden]>, Ryan

Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
cared for it could last a long time as well.

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
one training trip to Ghana.

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
ojectid=598

http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html

http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

Dan

Doug Fattic in Niles, Michigan offers frame building courses, where the
student gets to make their own frame.

Probably a great way to spend your vacation.

Doug is one of the best frame makers in the US.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/fattic_doug.htm

Marcus

Marcus Coles said:

Doug Fattic in Niles, Michigan offers frame building courses, where the
student gets to make their own frame.

Probably a great way to spend your vacation.

Doug is one of the best frame makers in the US.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/fattic_doug.htm

Marcus

I just took one of Doug's courses and would recommend it highly. Doug
charges quite a bit less than UBI as well.

Gary Young said:

Marcus Coles said:

Doug Fattic in Niles, Michigan offers frame building courses, where the
student gets to make their own frame.

Quoted message said:

Probably a great way to spend your vacation.

Quoted message said:

Doug is one of the best frame makers in the US.

Quoted message said:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/fattic_doug.htm

Quoted message said:

Marcus

I just took one of Doug's courses and would recommend it highly. Doug
charges quite a bit less than UBI as well.

What's the deal with this? How much does he charge? Is there lodging
available nearby? Specific dates or days? Groups? That would be a
cool vaca!

Quoted message said:

Gary Young said:

Marcus Coles said:

Doug Fattic in Niles, Michigan offers frame building courses, where the
student gets to make their own frame.

Quoted message said:

Probably a great way to spend your vacation.

Quoted message said:

Doug is one of the best frame makers in the US.

Quoted message said:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/fattic_doug.htm

Quoted message said:

Marcus

I just took one of Doug's courses and would recommend it highly. Doug
charges quite a bit less than UBI as well.

What's the deal with this? How much does he charge? Is there lodging
available nearby? Specific dates or days? Groups? That would be a
cool vaca!

I don't think Doug's website is up and running at the moment, but he
usually announces his classes on the framebuilder's mailing list. For
instance, here's an announcement from earlier this year, which should give
you an idea of his fees:

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=framebuilders.10702.0163.eml

I think he has a class coming up in October, but it may already be full.
Send him an email. Cheap lodging is available nearby.

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.
Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.
Everything else is the hard part,

Quoted message said:

"Bamboo frames.--From the discussion on the frame (chap. xxiii.) it
will be seen that when the frame is properly barced, and its members
so arranged that the stresses on them are along their axes, the
maximum tensile or compressive stress on the material is small. If a
steel tube were made as light as possible, with merely sufficient
sectional area to resist these principal stresses, it would be so thin
that it would be unable to resist rough handling, and would speedily
become indented locally. A lighter material with greater thickness,
though of less strength, would resist these local forces better. The
bamboo frame (fig. 262) is an effort in this direction, the bamboo
tubes being stronger locally than steel tubes of equal weight and
external diameter."

--Sharp, "Bicycles & Tricycles," 1896, p.286-7

Wooden and bamboo bicycles were built by several companies and ridden
by ordinary riders, but they offered no real advantages and were
expensive for mass production.

As far as I can tell, wood and bamboo were abandoned except for
novelty items because steel is hard to beat for price and overall
durability.

1897 wood frame lady's bike:

http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/Bike25a.html

Lady's bentwood bicycle:

http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/Bike31a.html

The bamboo bike that Andrew Muzi isn't talking about:

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wlhba/articleView.asp?pg=1&id=10367&pn=0

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/search.asp?id=1130

***

My theory about steel versus bamboo is supported by this page:

"The Bamboo Cycle Company of Holbourne, London, had its works in Petit
Street, off Pountney Street, Wolverhampton. Their machines initially
had frames made of bamboo because it was very strong, lightweight and
free from corrosion. In practice steel proved to be a much better
material for the purpose and so only a few real bamboo bikes were
made."

"Later models were made of steel that was disguised to look like
bamboo. The bicycles were fitted with the patent 'Doolittle' back
pedalling brake and an automatically adjustable handlebar. The
machines were only in production for a few years and it is thought
that only small numbers were made. The company also had premises in
Thomas Street."

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Bamboo.htm

The site above has pictures, but whether the bikes are made of real or
fake bamboo is hard to tell.

There's a relatively current (?) outfit called Bamboo Bike Co which
paints frame tubes to look like bamboo. Occasional artistic efforts
include wrapping a string on a tube, smearing bondo, then removing the
string before airbrushing to a nice effect.

Our local bike factory 2 blocks up (a hundred or so years ago) used
maple, which like our shop floors, was chosen because they just had a
lot of it.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Gary Young said:

Quoted message said:

Gary Young said:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:06:40 -0400, Marcus Coles wrote:
> Doug Fattic in Niles, Michigan offers frame building courses, where the
> student gets to make their own frame.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Probably a great way to spend your vacation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Doug is one of the best frame makers in the US.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/fattic_doug.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Marcus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just took one of Doug's courses and would recommend it highly. Doug
charges quite a bit less than UBI as well.

Quoted message said:

What's the deal with this? How much does he charge? Is there lodging
available nearby? Specific dates or days? Groups? That would be a
cool vaca!

I don't think Doug's website is up and running at the moment, but he
usually announces his classes on the framebuilder's mailing list. For
instance, here's an announcement from earlier this year, which should give
you an idea of his fees:

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=framebuilders.10702.01...

I think he has a class coming up in October, but it may already be full.
Send him an email. Cheap lodging is available nearby.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Awesome, thanks. I won't make October, but I will have to look into
future classes.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
cared for it could last a long time as well.

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

I don't know, bamboo seems pretty strong for its weight and it grows
like a weed. In Hong Kong pretty much all construction scaffolding I've
noticed is bamboo, I've never seen steel scaffolding, and this includes the
scaffolding on buildings that are well over 50 floors. I assume
the cost of the material is the benefit since it looks like more work
to erect the scaffolding.

Calfee will build you a bamboo frame pretty routinely if you pay for
it, though I don't think cost minimization is the object of their
particular offering.

Dennis Ferguson

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:40:53 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Quoted message said:

As far as I can tell, wood and bamboo were abandoned except for
novelty items because steel is hard to beat for price and overall
durability.

1897 wood frame lady's bike:

http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/Bike25a.html

Lady's bentwood bicycle:

http://www.metzbicyclemuseum.com/Bike31a.html

The bamboo bike that Andrew Muzi isn't talking about:

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wlhba/articleView.asp?pg=1&id=10367&pn=0

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/search.asp?id=1130

Her's the modern version:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

--

John ([email hidden])

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Becker said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ryan

Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark said:

It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
cared for it could last a long time as well.

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
one training trip to Ghana.

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
ojectid=598

http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html

http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

Dan

Huh. It's clear I underestimated bamboo. Notably, Calfee says that a
built frame weighs about 4 pounds, which is lighter than I would have
guessed.

Reading the bamboobike.org/Blog leads me to believe that my guess about
the frame not being the problem was not that far off the mark. That
said, the prototype is a semi-longbike design (basically, a lot like the
Kona Ute, which is in turn a rendition-as-frame of the BikeXtra longbike
kit. Kona aren't the only company doing a longbike this year: Surly is
about to sell the Big Dummy), which seems like a practical design for
the local market.

But basically, the blog says that they're looking into the local Ghanian
parts market, and you can either start with cheap and crappy new
imported parts (cheap and crappy parts being all that the local market
could afford, of course), or you can start from complete donor-bikes,
which generally have a better parts mix, but also, ahem, include a frame.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:45:32 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Becker said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ryan

Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Mark <[email hidden]> wrote:

> It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
> self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
> heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
> how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
> intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
> it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
> bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
> finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
> cared for it could last a long time as well.

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
one training trip to Ghana.

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
ojectid=598

http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html

http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

Dan

Huh. It's clear I underestimated bamboo. Notably, Calfee says that a
built frame weighs about 4 pounds, which is lighter than I would have
guessed.

Reading the bamboobike.org/Blog leads me to believe that my guess about
the frame not being the problem was not that far off the mark. That
said, the prototype is a semi-longbike design (basically, a lot like the
Kona Ute, which is in turn a rendition-as-frame of the BikeXtra longbike
kit. Kona aren't the only company doing a longbike this year: Surly is
about to sell the Big Dummy), which seems like a practical design for
the local market.

But basically, the blog says that they're looking into the local Ghanian
parts market, and you can either start with cheap and crappy new
imported parts (cheap and crappy parts being all that the local market
could afford, of course), or you can start from complete donor-bikes,
which generally have a better parts mix, but also, ahem, include a frame.

Which could be a broken, bent, or otherwise unuseable frame. Lots of
THEM in Africa. (but then, a lot of them are the flimsy "flying
pigeons" and their ilk from China - and their components may not be
worth scavenging.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Becker said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ryan
Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Mark <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
> self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
> heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
> how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
> intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
> it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
> bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
> finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
> cared for it could last a long time as well.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

Quoted message said:

The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
one training trip to Ghana.

Quoted message said:

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
ojectid=598

Quoted message said:

http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html

Quoted message said:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

Quoted message said:

Dan

Huh. It's clear I underestimated bamboo. Notably, Calfee says that a
built frame weighs about 4 pounds, which is lighter than I would have
guessed.

Reading the bamboobike.org/Blog leads me to believe that my guess about
the frame not being the problem was not that far off the mark. That
said, the prototype is a semi-longbike design (basically, a lot like the
Kona Ute, which is in turn a rendition-as-frame of the BikeXtra longbike
kit. Kona aren't the only company doing a longbike this year: Surly is
about to sell the Big Dummy), which seems like a practical design for
the local market.

But basically, the blog says that they're looking into the local Ghanian
parts market, and you can either start with cheap and crappy new
imported parts (cheap and crappy parts being all that the local market
could afford, of course), or you can start from complete donor-bikes,
which generally have a better parts mix, but also, ahem, include a frame.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Yea but I don't have to build the rest of the bike with lousy parts.
If I can talk the wife into it, when the time comes I can get what I
need to have an effective bike either from a quality bike that I can
part out locally or with new parts. It would also open up many
options to customize to my riding needs.

In article <[email hidden]>,

clare at snyder.on.ca said:

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:45:32 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Becker said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ryan
Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Mark <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
> > self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
> > heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
> > how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
> > intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
> > it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
> > bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
> > finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
> > cared for it could last a long time as well.
>
> Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
> be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.
>
> Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
> scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
> specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.

The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
one training trip to Ghana.

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
ojectid=598

http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html

http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm

Dan

Huh. It's clear I underestimated bamboo. Notably, Calfee says that a
built frame weighs about 4 pounds, which is lighter than I would have
guessed.

Reading the bamboobike.org/Blog leads me to believe that my guess about
the frame not being the problem was not that far off the mark. That
said, the prototype is a semi-longbike design (basically, a lot like the
Kona Ute, which is in turn a rendition-as-frame of the BikeXtra longbike
kit. Kona aren't the only company doing a longbike this year: Surly is
about to sell the Big Dummy), which seems like a practical design for
the local market.

But basically, the blog says that they're looking into the local Ghanian
parts market, and you can either start with cheap and crappy new
imported parts (cheap and crappy parts being all that the local market
could afford, of course), or you can start from complete donor-bikes,
which generally have a better parts mix, but also, ahem, include a frame.

Which could be a broken, bent, or otherwise unuseable frame. Lots of
THEM in Africa. (but then, a lot of them are the flimsy "flying
pigeons" and their ilk from China - and their components may not be
worth scavenging.

Possibly, but I'm pretty sure most of the donor-bikes start with useable
frames. If they didn't, it would be a waste of space to ship them.

Well, maybe not. The article mentions local Ghanian import duties which
cause complete bikes to be cheaper to import than parts. Nonetheless,
that's an artifact of the local tax system, not an inherent problem.

What I'm getting at is there's a large chance that by revolutionizing
the bicycle frame, they're solving the non-problem.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos