Buffalo clothing

I have a Montane mountain shirt type thing. I certainly would not want to
wear it to do anything strenuous in temperatures about 10 degrees C. They
are very very good at keeping you warm. I used to cycle in a buffalo and it
was too damn hot, great when not moving but as soon as I started it was too
warm and turned into a sweaty mess.

They get wet, you stay warm. If you wear them next to your skin and you can
even in some quite seriously cold weather then if it rains you still stay
reasonably warm....

BUT!!! That's just me, some people do not get on with them and do not feel
warm and comfy in them if it gets a bit parky. See if you can borrow
someone's and give it a go. They are cheaper than a decent shell jacket and
you may find you get on with them just fine. I like mine, I have lost a bit
of weight and am finding it a bit cooler and more comfy to wear. They are
great if you get to the top of a hill, it's bloody cold and you have sweated
on the way up. get your Montane/buffalo/snugpack out of the rucksack and
it's instant toasty warm body. Great for when you stop on the summit for a
sarnie.

--
Wales and Borders 15th Century Living History Society
www.15thcentury.co.uk
"Michael Gent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all new to the group.
New to hill walking as well.
I have been wearing:- wicking bottom layer, Rohan fleece mid layer, Parrot
cycling type jacket with hood top layer. The jacket is ripstop possibly
pertex with the webbing on the inside very light weight, great windproof,
and very waterproof, and packs down well. No complaints until it gets
dirty
and looses its beading effect when wet then it soaks through.

To counter this i washed the waterproof with soap flakes then(first
mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mine is
breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are
beading
off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it again
in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of the
garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth. This
seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then waterlogged
again. Now cheesed off.

Reading the group I see stories of the best fabrics disapointing
performance
to resisting downpoors.
The buffalow idea of get wet but stay warm, well im not convinced without
trying it.
But as a Buffalow shirt/top is a lot less expensive than a £200.00 gortex
i
have nothing to loose

But ive and idea i want to put to the group to see if any of you can give
feedback from experience.

Take for instance Kinder Scout in Autumn 10 degrees at sea level, a days
exploring on the top, I would imagine a buffalow top would do the job worn
against the skin, but pack a wicking bottom layer incase.
Whilst on the top a cold head wind blew in, would i be ok?
Whilst on the top light rain then started, would i be ok?
But then a torrential down pore, i think at this point i would be looking
for a totally waterproof garment (non breathable)
My question is the "Stormlite Monsoon Poncho" is advertised as totally
waterproof @ £29.99 is a lot cheaper than the top of the range jackets,
would it do the job of keeping me dry on the decenct back down the hill
providing im not going at it like the 75 year old fell runner i saw up
their
the other day.??

Also can you advise on any other brands of "Totally waterproof" non
breathable light weight, low cost tops.
Which of the Buffalo range would you recommend.

Sorry for being long winded and the bad spellig

micgent

"Michael Gent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all new to the group.
New to hill walking as well.
I have been wearing:- wicking bottom layer, Rohan fleece mid layer, Parrot
cycling type jacket with hood top layer. The jacket is ripstop possibly
pertex with the webbing on the inside very light weight, great windproof,
and very waterproof, and packs down well. No complaints until it gets
dirty
and looses its beading effect when wet then it soaks through.

To counter this i washed the waterproof with soap flakes then(first
mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mine is
breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are
beading
off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it again
in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of the
garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth. This
seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then waterlogged
again. Now cheesed off.

Reading the group I see stories of the best fabrics disapointing
performance
to resisting downpoors.
The buffalow idea of get wet but stay warm, well im not convinced without

Yes well I've used Buffalo for years and I think their claims that you stay
warm when wet are overstated. You simply don't! especially if you cease
activity. What they are though - and it's why I still use them, is an
excellent, hard wearing and good value mid layer

Quoted message said:

trying it.
But as a Buffalow shirt/top is a lot less expensive than a £200.00 gortex
i
have nothing to loose

But ive and idea i want to put to the group to see if any of you can give
feedback from experience.

Take for instance Kinder Scout in Autumn 10 degrees at sea level, a days
exploring on the top, I would imagine a buffalow top would do the job worn
against the skin, but pack a wicking bottom layer incase.

I would always wear a thermal base layer. What happens if you get too hot
and want to take your Buffalo off?

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top a cold head wind blew in, would i be ok?

Probably, if you were dry and working reasonably hard.

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top light rain then started, would i be ok?

If you keep moving yes.

Quoted message said:

But then a torrential down pore, i think at this point i would be looking
for a totally waterproof garment (non breathable)

Defenately.

Quoted message said:

My question is the "Stormlite Monsoon Poncho" is advertised as totally
waterproof @ £29.99 is a lot cheaper than the top of the range jackets,
would it do the job of keeping me dry on the decenct back down the hill
providing im not going at it like the 75 year old fell runner i saw up
their
the other day.??

Don't know sorry. No experience of this waterproof

Quoted message said:

Also can you advise on any other brands of "Totally waterproof" non
breathable light weight, low cost tops.
Which of the Buffalo range would you recommend.

I've always had mountain shirts. I had trousers too but they get to heavy if
wet. Great for uprating a sleeping bag though. On the subject I finf Buffalo
sleeping bags too heavy and bulky

Quoted message said:

Sorry for being long winded and the bad spellig

micgent

"bob watkinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Michael Gent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all new to the group.
New to hill walking as well.
I have been wearing:- wicking bottom layer, Rohan fleece mid layer,

Parrot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cycling type jacket with hood top layer. The jacket is ripstop possibly
pertex with the webbing on the inside very light weight, great

windproof,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and very waterproof, and packs down well. No complaints until it gets
dirty
and looses its beading effect when wet then it soaks through.

To counter this i washed the waterproof with soap flakes then(first
mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mine

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are
beading
off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it

again

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of the
garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth.

This

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then

waterlogged

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

again. Now cheesed off.

Reading the group I see stories of the best fabrics disapointing
performance
to resisting downpoors.
The buffalow idea of get wet but stay warm, well im not convinced

without

Quoted message said:

Yes well I've used Buffalo for years and I think their claims that you

stay

Quoted message said:

warm when wet are overstated. You simply don't! especially if you cease
activity. What they are though - and it's why I still use them, is an
excellent, hard wearing and good value mid layer

Quoted message said:

trying it.
But as a Buffalow shirt/top is a lot less expensive than a £200.00

gortex

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i
have nothing to loose

But ive and idea i want to put to the group to see if any of you can

give

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

feedback from experience.

Take for instance Kinder Scout in Autumn 10 degrees at sea level, a days
exploring on the top, I would imagine a buffalow top would do the job

worn

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

against the skin, but pack a wicking bottom layer incase.

I would always wear a thermal base layer. What happens if you get too hot
and want to take your Buffalo off?

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top a cold head wind blew in, would i be ok?

Probably, if you were dry and working reasonably hard.

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top light rain then started, would i be ok?

If you keep moving yes.

Quoted message said:

But then a torrential down pore, i think at this point i would be

looking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for a totally waterproof garment (non breathable)

Defenately.

Quoted message said:

My question is the "Stormlite Monsoon Poncho" is advertised as totally
waterproof @ £29.99 is a lot cheaper than the top of the range jackets,
would it do the job of keeping me dry on the decenct back down the hill
providing im not going at it like the 75 year old fell runner i saw up
their
the other day.??

Don't know sorry. No experience of this waterproof

Quoted message said:

Also can you advise on any other brands of "Totally waterproof" non
breathable light weight, low cost tops.
Which of the Buffalo range would you recommend.

I've always had mountain shirts. I had trousers too but they get to heavy

if

Quoted message said:

wet. Great for uprating a sleeping bag though. On the subject I finf

Buffalo

Quoted message said:

sleeping bags too heavy and bulky

Quoted message said:

Sorry for being long winded and the bad spellig

micgent

Thanks for the quick reply, plenty of pondering to be done.
But it wont spoil this weekend around Kinder again.
Weather permitting

micgent

"Michael Gent" > wrote

Quoted message said:

I have been wearing:- wicking bottom layer, Rohan fleece mid layer, Parrot
cycling type jacket with hood top layer. The jacket is ripstop possibly
pertex with the webbing on the inside very light weight, great windproof,
and very waterproof, and packs down well. No complaints until it gets
dirty
and looses its beading effect when wet then it soaks through.

To counter this i washed the waterproof with soap flakes then(first
mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mine is
breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are
beading
off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it again
in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of the
garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth. This
seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then waterlogged
again. Now cheesed off.

Perhaps it's the soap flakes causing the problem, if you leave any soap on
the garment at all you will have the problem you describe.
Use the special Nikwaz tech washing liquid then treat and see what happens.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Bob Hobden" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Michael Gent" > wrote

Quoted message said:

I have been wearing:- wicking bottom layer, Rohan fleece mid layer,

Parrot

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cycling type jacket with hood top layer. The jacket is ripstop possibly
pertex with the webbing on the inside very light weight, great

windproof,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and very waterproof, and packs down well. No complaints until it gets
dirty
and looses its beading effect when wet then it soaks through.

To counter this i washed the waterproof with soap flakes then(first
mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mine

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are
beading
off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it

again

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of the
garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth.

This

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then

waterlogged

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

again. Now cheesed off.

Perhaps it's the soap flakes causing the problem, if you leave any soap on
the garment at all you will have the problem you describe.
Use the special Nikwaz tech washing liquid then treat and see what

happens.

Quoted message said:

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Oops, sorry Bob forgot to mention that the very first time we tried it, it
was in fact the nicwax wash stuff we used we bought them together. I have
heard other people have similar problems, they have then sent the garrment
to nicwax who have treated the garment propery which brings the
waterproofness back to how it should be. So I can beleive im doing something
wrong, its just the whole waterproof clothing subject is seive like :-)

thanks

micgent

"Michael Gent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The buffalow idea of get wet but stay warm, well im not convinced without
trying it.
But as a Buffalow shirt/top is a lot less expensive than a £200.00 gortex
i
have nothing to loose

But ive and idea i want to put to the group to see if any of you can give
feedback from experience.

Take for instance Kinder Scout in Autumn 10 degrees at sea level, a days
exploring on the top, I would imagine a buffalow top would do the job worn
against the skin, but pack a wicking bottom layer incase.
Whilst on the top a cold head wind blew in, would i be ok?
Whilst on the top light rain then started, would i be ok?

I find the Buffalo jacket to be great in the right conditions. For me, this
means winter, preferably frosty. Thing is, they really are incredibly warm,
For that reason, you need to trust the advice and wear nothing underneath.
It seems a bit strange the first time you open one of the side zips and feel
the icy blast - but it actually works, If a wicking layer becomes damp
(through perspiration or seepage) under your buffalo, it seems to take ages
to dry whereas the buffalo seems to dry itself much quicker. I also find
that I stay comfortably warm as long as I exercise. For this reason, I
always take a Paclite jacket and will put that on if I stop for any length
of time. This jacket also serves as an additional shell if get looks
particularly wet.

druidh

bob watkinson said:

Yes well I've used Buffalo for years and I think their claims that you stay
warm when wet are overstated. You simply don't! especially if you cease
activity. What they are though - and it's why I still use them, is an
excellent, hard wearing and good value mid layer

<snip>
I think there is frequently a problem in cooler conditions with any
clothing system when you stop. After 10 minutes or so you will feel
cold, presuming you were comfortable whilst active. In which case you
need to add clothing, or move around a bit. I don't think Buffalo is
any different in this respect to a conventional Goretex layering
system.

"Chris" <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bob watkinson said:

Yes well I've used Buffalo for years and I think their claims that you
stay
warm when wet are overstated. You simply don't! especially if you cease
activity. What they are though - and it's why I still use them, is an
excellent, hard wearing and good value mid layer

<snip>
I think there is frequently a problem in cooler conditions with any
clothing system when you stop. After 10 minutes or so you will feel
cold, presuming you were comfortable whilst active. In which case you
need to add clothing, or move around a bit. I don't think Buffalo is
any different in this respect to a conventional Goretex layering
system.

Quite right, but I know I'd rather be dry and warm rather than wet and warm.

bob watkinson said:

Quite right, but I know I'd rather be dry and warm rather than wet and warm.

Agreed, but in reality the only way that happens is if we don't move
around much 😉 With any exercise we are rarely dry, but with care
we can feel dry, (or rather, damp and warm). If we feel wet and warm,
or wet and cold, then I think we've got the clothing wrong.

Michael Gent said:

mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mineis
breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are beading
off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it again
in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of the
garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth. This
seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then waterlogged
again. Now cheesed off.

1 hour beading isn't bad. These coatings are for repellency, not formal
waterproofing. Anything will wet out in time.

Quoted message said:

Reading the group I see stories of the best fabrics disapointing performance
to resisting downpoors.
The buffalow idea of get wet but stay warm, well im not convinced without
trying it.
But as a Buffalow shirt/top is a lot less expensive than a £200.00 gortex i
have nothing to loose

If you're like me you'll melt in it, so you'll have wasted about £70. I
don't rate that as "nothing"!
Paramo's stuff is still too warm for me, but not as warm as a Buffalo
and it will keep you dry too.

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top a cold head wind blew in, would i be ok?

The Pertex outer is basically windproof, so the windchill is hugely
reduced, so you'd be fine.

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top light rain then started, would i be ok?

The Pertex outer is basically showerproof, so yes.

Quoted message said:

But then a torrential down pore, i think at this point i would be looking
for a totally waterproof garment (non breathable)

Why non-breathable?

Quoted message said:

My question is the "Stormlite Monsoon Poncho" is advertised as totally
waterproof @ £29.99 is a lot cheaper than the top of the range jackets,
would it do the job of keeping me dry on the decenct back down the hill
providing im not going at it like the 75 year old fell runner i saw up their
the other day.??

No. If you sit still in a non-breathable garment you'll find that
you're continuously putting out moisture through your skin. Also the
case that if you get it into that wind driven gale it will be no fun at all.

Quoted message said:

Also can you advise on any other brands of "Totally waterproof" non
breathable light weight, low cost tops.

They're for emergencies only, I wouldn't bother myself. Low cost will
almost always mean a lousy hood.

Quoted message said:

Which of the Buffalo range would you recommend.

Depends how hot you run.
I'd have a very serious look at Paramo is you want to stay dry and are
fed up with face fabrics wetting out and stopping breathability. But
they're not cheap, and they're a bit warm IME (but fine for many people).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Chris" <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bob watkinson said:

Quite right, but I know I'd rather be dry and warm rather than wet and
warm.

Agreed, but in reality the only way that happens is if we don't move
around much 😉 With any exercise we are rarely dry, but with care
we can feel dry, (or rather, damp and warm). If we feel wet and warm,
or wet and cold, then I think we've got the clothing wrong.

But you have to consider the elements, not just exercise induced dampness.
If you only have Buffalo you will get wet if it rains and not just damp.
Then if you are forced to stop exercising (injury) I thing your predicament
would be worse than if you had not got soaked to begin with

bob watkinson said:

But you have to consider the elements, not just exercise induced dampness.
If you only have Buffalo you will get wet if it rains and not just damp.
Then if you are forced to stop exercising (injury) I thing your predicament
would be worse than if you had not got soaked to begin with

Yes, but OTOH if you're carring more stuff to avoid this problem then
that might slow you down enough to cause other problems and so on.

Buffalo stuff does work and we know it does because there are people out
there using it. It's a valid approach for some so possibly worth trying
if what's a valid approach for others isn't cutting the mustard for you.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Michael Gent said:

mistake ) used the wash in nicwax (meant for non breathable wereas mine

is

Quoted message said:

breathable). Next outing in the rain and it works the rain drops are be

ading

Quoted message said:

off great. 1 hout later the material is water logged. So i washed it ag

ain

Quoted message said:

in soap flakes, then diluted the remains of the nicwax with hot water
dipensed it into a hand spray bottle and treated just the outside of th

e

Quoted message said:

garment, rubbing the wax into the material with a wax drenched cloth. T

his

Quoted message said:

seemed to work great. But again 1 hour of beading water, then waterlogg

ed

Quoted message said:

again. Now cheesed off.

1 hour beading isn't bad. These coatings are for repellency, not formal

waterproofing. Anything will wet out in time.

Quoted message said:

Reading the group I see stories of the best fabrics disapointing perfor

mance

Quoted message said:

to resisting downpoors.
The buffalow idea of get wet but stay warm, well im not convinced witho

ut

Quoted message said:

trying it.
But as a Buffalow shirt/top is a lot less expensive than a 200.00 go

rtex i

Quoted message said:

have nothing to loose

If you're like me you'll melt in it, so you'll have wasted about 70.
I
don't rate that as "nothing"!
Paramo's stuff is still too warm for me, but not as warm as a Buffalo
and it will keep you dry too.

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top a cold head wind blew in, would i be ok?

The Pertex outer is basically windproof, so the windchill is hugely
reduced, so you'd be fine.

Quoted message said:

Whilst on the top light rain then started, would i be ok?

The Pertex outer is basically showerproof, so yes.

Quoted message said:

But then a torrential down pore, i think at this point i would be looki

ng

Quoted message said:

for a totally waterproof garment (non breathable)

Why non-breathable?

Quoted message said:

My question is the "Stormlite Monsoon Poncho" is advertised as totally
waterproof @ 29.99 is a lot cheaper than the top of the range jacket

s,

Quoted message said:

would it do the job of keeping me dry on the decenct back down the hill

Quoted message said:

providing im not going at it like the 75 year old fell runner i saw up

their

Quoted message said:

the other day.??

No. If you sit still in a non-breathable garment you'll find that
you're continuously putting out moisture through your skin. Also the
case that if you get it into that wind driven gale it will be no fun at a
ll.

Quoted message said:

Also can you advise on any other brands of "Totally waterproof" non
breathable light weight, low cost tops.

They're for emergencies only, I wouldn't bother myself. Low cost will
almost always mean a lousy hood.

Quoted message said:

Which of the Buffalo range would you recommend.

Depends how hot you run.
I'd have a very serious look at Paramo is you want to stay dry and are
fed up with face fabrics wetting out and stopping breathability. But
they're not cheap, and they're a bit warm IME (but fine for many people).

Pete.

First off thanks for the advice.
Ive just been to Hitch n Hike and purchased the Paramo Velez. I then
went straight up a hill, got all sweaty, opened the vents and cooled
off,went down the hill in the rain, got back to the car dry.
considering its a mild not to cold day im happy, i bought this for
winter, I can still put a fleece on underneath if it gets even colder.

Some of you may have been into the shop at Hope, ITS VERY WELL STOCKED
good assistance and was able to see all the technical jackets side by
side. I was imedietly sold with the paramo their is a lot of thought
gone into the design of the hood and ventilation. Up til now which is
only 1 walk and 4 hours of use its perfectly fantasic, well happy.

I bought the paramo gaiters as well i was impressed with those as
well.

Thanks again

mic gent

Best bit of gear I have ever bought, and pretty well lives up to the fairly
bold claims made by the maker. That said...

If it's really really raining, or likely to continue wet all day I do tend
to put a proper anorak on top. That's not to say the buff-jacket won't do on
it's own if you don't mind the cold much, but since you'll probably want to
be carrying some spare clothing it might as well be an anorak. I don't
normally carry any extra spare clothing at all (Scotland in winter).

I also wear a thermal vest underneath for two reasons - it stops being too
draughty when you open the side zips to cool down. And most importantly, if
you get hot, you can then take the buffalo jacket off without being naked
underneath.

I bought the lighter weight of the two shirts, (still the fleece one, but
thiner outer fabric). This is much more robust than it looks, but finally
ruined it by stupidly wearing it on a long caving trip (carried as a spare
rather than planned). I then bought the heavy duty one (special 6 shirt ?),
but actually think the normal weight is better.

I've not tried the trousers / salopettes, nor the special matching
shreddies, which is going a bit far in my view.

The only real downside is that you do look a nonce if you wear it to the
shops, unlike a more trendy fleece.

Good kit - buy one !

Hywel