Bruyneel and the Omerta

Frigo's Luggage said:

Looks like Bruyneel all but called for an omerta today in a letter to the IPCT:

"Bruyneel opened his communiqué by saying "it's a good time to get together, to reflect and discuss the current situation and future of our sport. We should stop bickering about things as this isn't a solution to anything. As long as we continue to throw accusations around in our own sport, we're not going to solve anything."

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

Anybody that hires this guy as a DS must be insane, or Astana.

Bruyneel must go. We have too many guys in this sport that grew up in the Saiz system.

If you had read the entire story, you would have seen that he was pointing out that Contador's performance in the 2007 Tour wasn't extraordinary. Bruyneel was railing against the groundless accusations made by Lavenu and Madiot.

Unless you'd prefer to let cycling be ruled by rumor instead of fact. That's sort of happening right now (witness Valverde), and cycling is so much better for it. Right?

So Bruyneel says in the letter that the IPCT should stick together. This from the same man that decided to hire Basso against the ICPT's decisions not to hire an OP implicated rider.

So only when it fits his agenda should the IPCT stick together?

I read the entire story. The guy wants people to stop accusing other people of doping and he is basically resorting to blackmail to do it. If you out my guy, I will out your guy. Yep, its an omerta.

I'm gonna check. I bet that Bruyneel is being selective in his choice of climbs for comparing VAM. I don't know for sure. But I would bet a modest amount that Cantador's climb of the Peyresourde was not his fastest of the Tour.

I also think that the Valve/Piti situation rises well above rumor.

JohnO said:

If you had read the entire story, you would have seen that he was pointing out that Contador's performance in the 2007 Tour wasn't extraordinary. Bruyneel was railing against the groundless accusations made by Lavenu and Madiot.

Unless you'd prefer to let cycling be ruled by rumor instead of fact. That's sort of happening right now (witness Valverde), and cycling is so much better for it. Right?

Here's some facts for you. Both Valverde and Contador were on teams with organized doping programs. Both appear in OP's records. Both went to teams run by managers who are unapologetic about doping in cycling. Cycling would be better off with both of them gone.

Ok. By sheer coincidence, the only independent VAM data I can find on Cantador's climb of the Peyresourde is from some guy named Michele Ferrari. He says Cantador's VAM was 1744 m/h (http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=88). If this guy Ferrari is correct, Cantador is moving considerably faster than Moreau's 1647 m/h.

I was wrong. Bruyneel didn't monkey around with the choice of climbs. He just screwed with the data. He probably screwed with Moreau's VAM data as well.

I just wish that a journalist with balls would press Bruyneel on these figures.

Bro Deal said:

Here's some facts for you. Both Valverde and Contador were on teams with organized doping programs. Both appear in OP's records. Both went to teams run by managers who are unapologetic about doping in cycling. Cycling would be better off with both of them gone.

And here is some facts for you...
Cycling in the 70's ,80's and 90's was exciting....... Cycling now is a sport only the stupid would care about.
Which would you prefer, the doping eras,or the era where everyone is outed based on just your assumptions.
So, I think cycling needs doping and Omerta.
It was better with it.

wolfix said:

And here is some facts for you...
Cycling in the 70's ,80's and 90's was exciting....... Cycling now is a sport only the stupid would care about.
Which would you prefer, the doping eras,or the era where everyone is outed based on just your assumptions.
So, I think cycling needs doping and Omerta.
It was better with it.

Put aside the obvious moral and ethical problems posed by your proposal. Put aside the fact that this doping [censored] really poses a health danger for the riders. Do you really think that cycling is more fun when people dope? From my perspective, I'd rather watch a stage race if I didn't know whether the GC leader was going to crack at any point in time. With doping, these guys just go and go and go and there is little risk that they will have a bad day because the dope makes them so good.

Also, do you really think that the 70s and 80s were dirtier than today? Its possible. But, the impact of EPO, blood doping and artificial hemogloebin is much greater than the impact of amphetamines.

I hope that you don't have to be stupid to care about cycling.

wolfix said:

And here is some facts for you...
Cycling in the 70's ,80's and 90's was exciting....... Cycling now is a sport only the stupid would care about.
Which would you prefer, the doping eras,or the era where everyone is outed based on just your assumptions.
So, I think cycling needs doping and Omerta.
It was better with it.

The above opinion is the reason why no one takes your opinions about doping seriously. We already know your feelings about omerta: Anyone who talks is a "rat."

Let me guess. You are a big fan of professional wrestling. You don't have to stop with unrestricted doping. Why don't we script entire races. That would be exciting.

have to agree with f.luggage. bruyneel seems to be trying very hard to cover for contador. having read the article cited above & given the article in cycle sport america on a.c.'s late tour & "victory" interviews where he inexpertly dodged some pointed questions concerning his involvement in operacion puerto, you'd be hard pressed to give a.c. or j.b benefit of the doubt.

and cycling is more exciting when there is the prospect of a g.c. contender blowing himself up in a stage.

Frigo's Luggage said:

Ok. By sheer coincidence, the only independent VAM data I can find on Cantador's climb of the Peyresourde is from some guy named Michele Ferrari. He says Cantador's VAM was 1744 m/h (53x12.comshowOpen ↗). If this guy Ferrari is correct, Cantador is moving considerably faster than Moreau's 1647 m/h.

I was wrong. Bruyneel didn't monkey around with the choice of climbs. He just screwed with the data. He probably screwed with Moreau's VAM data as well.

I just wish that a journalist with balls would press Bruyneel on these figures.

There is good reason why Bruyneel brings this up (whilst fudging the facts).... Kid Contador can't find a team ! He's on the street !

I have an article on Contador climbing..... I'll cut and paste tonight when home...... the Kid is out of control the plasma......

slovakguy said:

have to agree with f.luggage. bruyneel seems to be trying very hard to cover for contador. having read the article cited above & given the article in cycle sport america on a.c.'s late tour & "victory" interviews where he inexpertly dodged some pointed questions concerning his involvement in operacion puerto, you'd be hard pressed to give a.c. or j.b benefit of the doubt.

and cycling is more exciting when there is the prospect of a g.c. contender blowing himself up in a stage.

Watching the Vuelta on Monday you'll see this........ 3 guys vomitted over the line.... one guy had to be carried off his bike...... thats what it is...... a farking hard sport...... we can't have guys attacking 28 times up a mountain to then take a mobile call as soon as they cross the line ala Contador !

too right. i'd take roche sucking in an entire oxygen tank and communicating by blinking just so he could stay in touch with delgado in preparation for the time trial any day.

whiteboytrash said:

Watching the Vuelta on Monday you'll see this........ 3 guys vomitted over the line.... one guy had to be carried off his bike...... thats what it is...... a farking hard sport...... we can't have guys attacking 28 times up a mountain to then take a mobile call as soon as they cross the line ala Contador !

Agreed.
Makes a change to see riders at the finish of a stage - who are actually tired.

wolfix said:

And here is some facts for you...
Cycling in the 70's ,80's and 90's was exciting....... Cycling now is a sport only the stupid would care about.
Which would you prefer, the doping eras,or the era where everyone is outed based on just your assumptions.
So, I think cycling needs doping and Omerta.
It was better with it.

If the only concern was cycling as entertainment, a la pro wrestling, then I might agree with you. But to still call it a "sport" with doping and omerta intact would be ridiculous - it would no longer be a sport whatsoever. If that's what you prefer, so be it. Most of us would disagree, I think, as we'd like to watch cycling as a real sport, not a farcical parody of one.

wolfix said:

Cycling now is a sport only the stupid would care about.....

I think cycling needs doping and Omerta.
It was better with it.

I wouldn't dream of calling you stupid, but i guess i won't have to as you pretty much accuse yourself here...

Now even if we put to one side the issue of winning a cycling race purely because you happen to respond better to doping then everyone else, don't you care about the long term health implications of repeated epo, testosterone, steriod abuse, etc?

Don't you think its a pretty nasty situation where people have to put their lives in danger just to be able to be competative in a cycling race? I mean christ it's just a sport at the end of the day.

whiteboytrash said:

Watching the Vuelta on Monday you'll see this........ 3 guys vomitted over the line.... one guy had to be carried off his bike...... thats what it is...... a farking hard sport...... we can't have guys attacking 28 times up a mountain to then take a mobile call as soon as they cross the line ala Contador !

limerickman said:

Agreed.
Makes a change to see riders at the finish of a stage - who are actually tired.

Totally agree with both of you, one of the most frustrating images in my mind from this year's tour de france was seeing Alpuerto attacking Rasmussen again and again on one of the alpine stages, sprinting towards the end, winning and not even looking remotely tired. I consider cycling one of the most physically and mentally demanding sports in the world (which is a large part of its appeal for me).

I have huge admiration for athletes who push themselves to the edge of exhaustion. However, the above episode with Contador really made a mockery of all this. At the end of that stage i just thought what is the [censored] point in watching this.

Bro Deal said:

Here's some facts for you. Both Valverde and Contador were on teams with organized doping programs. Both appear in OP's records. Both went to teams run by managers who are unapologetic about doping in cycling. Cycling would be better off with both of them gone.

Actually, what cycling would be better off without is fans like you who continue to [censored] all over it. "Organized doping programs"? Prove it, sniveling rumormonger.

yeloooooo said:

Don't you think its a pretty nasty situation where people have to put their lives in danger just to be able to be competative in a cycling race?

Yes, those precarious descents should be abolished, or at least some speed limits imposed. And while we're at it, I think the pelotons should be a thing of the past as well. All those life-threatening crashes with all those cyclists packed so dangerously close together. Make them go single file on tricycles, and we can be certain that the sport will be safe and pleasant for all concerned.

IH8LANCE said:

Actually, what cycling would be better off without is fans like you who continue to [censored] all over it. "Organized doping programs"? Prove it, sniveling rumormonger.

I guess your nose was too far up Armstrong's butt to notice the team manager of Liberty Seguros getting busted or Jesus Manzano spilling the beans about Kelme.
Asshats like you who deny the facts are what is harming cycling.

IH8Lance - it is not rumour, there is so much substantiated fact throughout the last 15 years to be rightfully suspicious of nearly every major contender.
If you think different then alas ....

atleast your choice of location : La La Land ....... is accurate

It is evident now that over the last 15 years doping in cycling has reached ridiculous heights.

It is now time to make a choice, either allow doping a la 'World's Strongest Man' or eradicate it through proper organised intelligence.

The sport is very close to becoming a joke and alienating it's long term fans let alone attract new ones.