Brooks premature sag

I think your photos look quite similar to the way my saddles look but mine have several hundred
miles on them.

Dubbin used to be the treatment of choice for footballs, when I was a kid in England, back in the
40's but I somehow doubt that it would be the best thing for a Brooks saddle. Brooks wants people to
use their ' Proofide ', so thats what I use and I think that it doesn't soften the leather quite as
aggressively as some other leather treatment products.

Have you tried adjusting the tension nut, to take out some of the sag?

Lewis.

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"Baka Dasai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here a couple of photos of my Brooks saddle:

geocities.jpbrooks01.JPGOpen ↗ geocities.jpbrooks02.JPGOpen ↗

These were taken after the saddle had undergone approximately 30 minutes of riding. As you can
(hopefully) see, there are some fairly serious depressions made by my sit bones. The only
treatment I used on the saddle was to lightly rub it with Dubbin (a waxy-looking leather
treatment).

It's now 5 months (about 1,250 km) since those photos, and the depressions are much much deeper,
and the high ridge along the centre of the saddle is getting uncomfortable. The saddle has never
gotten wet. From the way the saddle sagged so quickly, I guess the Dubbin was a mistake.

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Anybody seen anything like this with a Brooks?
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Baka Dasai <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Here a couple of photos of my Brooks saddle:

: geocities.jpbrooks01.JPGOpen ↗ geocities.jpbrooks02.JPGOpen ↗

I think that looks like the classic Jobst Brandt Ass Hatchet brand of Brooks saddles.

The saddle is way to saggy in that period of time. Must be the stuff you put on it just softened the
hell out of it.

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R: people who complain about Top-posters.

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Baka Dasai said:

Here a couple of photos of my Brooks saddle:

geocities.jpbrooks01.JPGOpen ↗ geocities.jpbrooks02.JPGOpen ↗

These were taken after the saddle had undergone approximately 30 minutes of riding. As you can
(hopefully) see, there are some fairly serious depressions made by my sit bones. The only
treatment I used on the saddle was to lightly rub it with Dubbin (a waxy-looking leather
treatment).

It's now 5 months (about 1,250 km) since those photos, and the depressions are much much deeper,
and the high ridge along the centre of the saddle is getting uncomfortable. The saddle has never
gotten wet. From the way the saddle sagged so quickly, I guess the Dubbin was a mistake.

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Anybody seen anything like this with a Brooks?

I put neatsfoot oil on mine and it never sagged. It's a different model though.

Baka Dasai said:

Here a couple of photos of my Brooks saddle:

geocities.jpbrooks01.JPGOpen ↗ geocities.jpbrooks02.JPGOpen ↗

These were taken after the saddle had undergone approximately 30 minutes of riding. As you can
(hopefully) see, there are some fairly serious depressions made by my sit bones. The only treatment
I used on the saddle was to lightly rub it with Dubbin (a waxy-looking leather treatment).

It's now 5 months (about 1,250 km) since those photos, and the depressions are much much deeper,
and the high ridge along the centre of the saddle is getting uncomfortable. The saddle has never
gotten wet. From the way the saddle sagged so quickly, I guess the Dubbin was a mistake.

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Anybody seen anything like this with a Brooks?

Yes. My Brooks looks exactly the same, quite large, sagging 'depressions', although I have a few
more miles accumulated than you -say about 200. I bought and used the recommended proofide as
supplied by Brooks, although now I'm wondering if I maybe used too much [can't remember to be
precise]. Either way, I'm not happy with it at all, and find the experience of riding with this
saddle to be just plain uncomfortable. It's now lying with my 'spare bits', wondering what will
become of itself. Looks like it might be heading towards Ebay, if it's worth the trip.

Shame, I was looking forward to being a Brooks advocate, but I have to remain silent on those
recommendations for now.

But like I said, the only thing I can think of that may have caused this 'shape change' is 'too
much' proofide, but I don't really recall giving it large on that front, so I'm really not sure...

Garryb
[210lb]

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Baka Dasai said:

Here a couple of photos of my Brooks saddle:

geocities.jpbrooks01.JPGOpen ↗ geocities.jpbrooks02.JPGOpen ↗

These were taken after the saddle had undergone approximately 30 minutes of riding. As you can
(hopefully) see, there are some fairly serious depressions made by my sit bones. The only
treatment I used on the saddle was to lightly rub it with Dubbin (a waxy-looking leather
treatment).

It's now 5 months (about 1,250 km) since those photos, and the depressions are much much deeper,
and the high ridge along the centre of the saddle is getting uncomfortable. The saddle has never
gotten wet. From the way the saddle sagged so quickly, I guess the Dubbin was a mistake.

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Anybody seen anything like this with a Brooks?

Yes. My Brooks looks exactly the same, quite large, sagging 'depressions', although I have a few
more miles accumulated than you -say about 200. I bought and used the recommended proofide as
supplied by Brooks, although now I'm wondering if I maybe used too much [can't remember to be
precise]. Either way, I'm not happy with it at all, and find the experience of riding with this
saddle to be just plain uncomfortable. It's now lying with my 'spare bits', wondering what will
become of itself. Looks like it might be heading towards Ebay, if it's worth the trip.

Shame, I was looking forward to being a Brooks advocate, but I have to remain silent on those
recommendations for now.

But like I said, the only thing I can think of that may have caused this 'shape change' is 'too
much' proofide, but I don't really recall giving it large on that front, so I'm really not sure...

Garryb
[210lb]

I've had a Brooks (team professional) for three years and a couple of thousand miles. It has been
Proofided several times and I really sloshed it on (the underside and the top) and then melted it in
with a hair dryer. The saddle is still quite firm, although I can cause slight depressions by
pushing hard with my thumbs so it's got some give in it. I certainly haven't had to touch the
tension nut!

Paul.

RE/

Quoted message said:

These were taken after the saddle had undergone approximately 30 minutes of riding. As you can
(hopefully) see, there are some fairly serious depressions made by my sit bones.

Looks like mine after a couple thou miles.

I always thought that was the way it was supposed to look...

I do know that there's a significant issue around what kind of goop is put on
it. Brooks "Proofide" is strictly a surface treatement - no penetration. Stuff that penetrates
supposedly can damage the saddle.
--
PeteCresswell

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:34:56 -0500, Lewis Campbell said (and I quote):

Quoted message said:

I think your photos look quite similar to the way my saddles look but mine have several hundred
miles on them.

Dubbin used to be the treatment of choice for footballs, when I was a kid in England, back in the
40's but I somehow doubt that it would be the best thing for a Brooks saddle. Brooks wants people
to use their ' Proofide ', so thats what I use and I think that it doesn't soften the leather
quite as aggressively as some other leather treatment products.

Have you tried adjusting the tension nut, to take out some of the sag?

There's no sag from front-to-back, so this wouldn't work. The sag is all localised under the sit
bones, and it's quite extreme now.
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Baka Dasai said:

It's now 5 months (about 1,250 km) since those photos, and the depressions are much much deeper,
and the high ridge along the centre of the saddle is getting uncomfortable. The saddle has never
gotten wet. From the way the saddle sagged so quickly, I guess the Dubbin was a mistake.

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Anybody seen anything like this with a Brooks?

Baka,

I have two Brooks B17 saddles with a couple of thousand miles on them. One's still incredibly
comfortable (and barely looks broken in), while the other one has the "ass hatchet" profile you've
noted in yours--and acquired it pretty quickly in its service life. Both were treated per Brooks'
spec with Proofide, covered in wet weather, and used on fendered bikes.

Why the different wear patterns? They're leather saddles, subject to the variability of any natural
product, and some leathers seem to be thinner / weaker than others. The next time I get a Brooks,
I'm going to plunk down the extra mool for one of the B17 "Champion Special" models, which are
apparently made with thicker leather.

If I didn't find them to be the most comfortable saddles I've ever used, I wouldn't dream of getting
another one.

Trent

Quoted message said:

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Saw a pic of someone who put a row of holes I think ten on each side close to the bottom and laces
the sides together. this made it stiffer for him.

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knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For prices and ordering instructions.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:27:02 -0700, trent gregory hill said (and I quote):

Quoted message said:

Why the different wear patterns? They're leather saddles, subject to the variability of any
natural product, and some leathers seem to be thinner / weaker than others. The next time I get a
Brooks, I'm going to plunk down the extra mool for one of the B17 "Champion Special" models, which
are apparently made with thicker leather.

Thicker leather sounds like it might be the ticket. The B17 seems to fit me out of the box, so i'm
not too concerned about the break-in period.

A small amount of web research finds many "Champion Specials" for sale, but there is no mention
anywhere of them having thicker leather, just different rivets, and chamfered edges.

Are you sure about the "thicker leather" part?
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I understand that very old Brooks saddles were made with holes for lacing up in this manner. Saw one
of these on Ebay recently. It sounds like a good idea to try if the saddle sags too much. My own
B-17 has about 800 miles on it and does not sag as much as shown in the photos. Though it is a
little tricky to judge the sag by looking at the images. I applied a thin coating of Proofide maybe
6 or 7 times, including the underside.

r.b.

Steve Knight <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

Saw a pic of someone who put a row of holes I think ten on each side close to the bottom and laces
the sides together. this made it stiffer for him.

Is this a troll post?

That's not "sag", it's supposed to look like that. The depressions under your sit bones means that
the saddle is nicely molding itself to your anatomy. Relax and enjoy the newfound comfort.

When the saddle does start to sag (actually, the leather stretches), it will develop a hammock like
appearance from front to back, visible when viewed from the side. Tighten the bolt under the nose
until it is straight again.

If it is a B17, Champion Flyer, or other "touring" type saddle, it comes pretty soft from the
factory. No treatment is needed in the beginning. Apply a little Proofide every six months or so to
keep it from drying out. You _don't_ have to slath it on, apply a good coat, let dry, then polish
the saddle with a dry cloth and it will give you years of comfortable miles.

The Team Pro I had years ago came to me rather hard. If they still do, they can be helped along by
rubbing in a generous amount of Proofide on the underside in the area of the sit bones and left
there. Care for the top as perscribed.

Chris "Give me leather or give me death" Zacho

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills!"

See you on the road. Chris Chris'Z Corner geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Baka Dasai

Quoted message said:

These were taken after the saddle had undergone approximately 30 minutes of riding. As you can
(hopefully) see, there are some fairly serious depressions made by my sit bones. The only treatment
I used on the saddle was to lightly rub it with Dubbin (a waxy-looking leather treatment).

It's now 5 months (about 1,250 km) since those photos, and the depressions are much much deeper,
and the high ridge along the centre of the saddle is getting uncomfortable. The saddle has never
gotten wet. From the way the saddle sagged so quickly, I guess the Dubbin was a mistake.

Other than this, the Brooks has been far and away the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. I
want to buy another one, but I'm concerned that the same thing will happen.

My current (also my second) Brooks B-17 was softer at first than I remember the first one being. I
had to tighten the adjuster to make it the way it want.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:56:00 -0400 (EDT), Chris Zacho "The Wheelman" said (and I quote):

Quoted message said:

Is this a troll post?

No.

Quoted message said:

That's not "sag", it's supposed to look like that. The depressions under your sit bones means that
the saddle is nicely molding itself to your anatomy. Relax and enjoy the newfound comfort.

The sag shown in the photo came from a grand total of 30 minutes of riding. The sag is now much more
pronounced - so much so that the saddle has a high ridge along its centre that presses on bits that
are not meant to be pressed on.

Quoted message said:

When the saddle does start to sag (actually, the leather stretches), it will develop a hammock
like appearance from front to back, visible when viewed from the side. Tighten the bolt under the
nose until it is straight again.

There is zero sag from front to back. Tightening the bolt would do nothing. The two sag points are
completely localised under the sit bones, but they are now ridiculously deep.

Quoted message said:

Chris "Give me leather or give me death" Zacho

I'm still keen on leather saddles, and on getting another Brooks. My saddle was extremely
comfortable out of the box and for the first few months, but the sag has now gotten so bad that it
is comfortable no more. It seems my bad experience was either due to mistreatment (Dubbin), or just
a random defective saddle. Hopefully the former.
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Baka Dasai said:

Thicker leather sounds like it might be the ticket. The B17 seems to fit me out of the box, so i'm
not too concerned about the break-in period.

A small amount of web research finds many "Champion Specials" for sale, but there is no mention
anywhere of them having thicker leather, just different rivets, and chamfered edges.

Are you sure about the "thicker leather" part?

I'm pretty sure I've seen that touted on either the Rivendell or Wallingford Bikes websites. They'd
be the people to ask.

Trent