Broken spoke, can't remove freewheel

"Hel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

David said:

"Hel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Hi all

Last weekend I snapped a spoke, rear wheel drive side, right at the
nipple. Was unable to remove it immediately and was in a rush, so I
taped
the broken spoke to one of its neighbours and rode on. I trued the wheel
up later on. It's been like that all week, finally was able to go to the
LBS yesterday and pick up a new spoke. However, I'm unable to remove the
freewheel to replace the spoke. I've got a chainwhip and the right
freewheel remover - but it seems to require superhuman powers, i.e. I
can't get it off and nor can my (much stronger) boyfriend. The crappy
adjustable wrench we were using probably doesn't help though.

I commute on this bike, about 12 miles each way, and my options for
getting to a bikeshop are pretty limited until next weekend. I'm
thinking
about truing up the wheel some more, riding it tomorrow to bring clean
clothes into work, then using other bikes for the rest of the week (I
should be paying them more attention anyway 🙂

How bad is it to ride on a broken spoke? Any tips for getting that
freewheel off, or anything else I can do? Advice appreciated...

What type/make is the freewheel. Is it a cassette?

Yes, it's a Shimano cassette (CS-M580)

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W29B51BBB

The lock ring shouldn't be on tight. I normally put mine of with the tool
and just my fingers, although others recomend using a wrench it shouldn't be
on that tight.

Are you sure you are turning the right way. The right way is the way that
you wouln't be able to turn it withought the chain whip, eg it the way that
the cassette freewheels.

Quoted message said:

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(remove the last letter of the alphabet to e-mail me)

David said:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W29B51BBB

The lock ring shouldn't be on tight. I normally put mine of with the tool
and just my fingers, although others recomend using a wrench it shouldn't be
on that tight.

Are you sure you are turning the right way. The right way is the way that
you wouln't be able to turn it withought the chain whip, eg it the way that
the cassette freewheels.

Quoted message said:

--

I'm pretty sure I'm turning it the right way, i.e. if I don't use the
chainwhip, it just freewheels around.

The cassette was fitted a couple of months ago by my LBS, who do have a
history of fitting stuff ridiculously tight...

Cheers,
Hel

--

(remove the last letter of the alphabet to e-mail me)

in message <[email hidden]>, Hel

(') said:

Last weekend I snapped a spoke, rear wheel drive side, right at the
nipple. Was unable to remove it immediately and was in a rush, so I
taped the broken spoke to one of its neighbours and rode on. I trued
the wheel up later on. It's been like that all week, finally was able
to go to the LBS yesterday and pick up a new spoke. However, I'm unable
to remove the freewheel to replace the spoke. I've got a chainwhip and
the right freewheel remover - but it seems to require superhuman
powers, i.e. I can't get it off and nor can my (much stronger)
boyfriend. The crappy adjustable wrench we were using probably doesn't
help though.

Clamp the freewheel remover in a bench vice, and turn the wheel - /much/
more torque than even a good adjustable wrench. But getting freewheels
off is well known for being a bugger.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Hel

(') said:

Last weekend I snapped a spoke, rear wheel drive side, right at the
nipple. Was unable to remove it immediately and was in a rush, so I
taped the broken spoke to one of its neighbours and rode on. I trued
the wheel up later on. It's been like that all week, finally was able
to go to the LBS yesterday and pick up a new spoke. However, I'm
unable to remove the freewheel to replace the spoke. I've got a
chainwhip and the right freewheel remover - but it seems to require
superhuman powers, i.e. I can't get it off and nor can my (much
stronger) boyfriend. The crappy adjustable wrench we were using
probably doesn't help though.

Clamp the freewheel remover in a bench vice, and turn the wheel -
/much/ more torque than even a good adjustable wrench. But getting
freewheels off is well known for being a bugger.

As confirmed in later posts, it's a cassette not a freewheel.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

As confirmed in later posts, it's a cassette not a freewheel.

Then you need some improvisation. Find an overhanging step and set one
spanner up under this, wedged between wheel and step. Set teh other one
up horizontal and carefully apply a foot. At some point it will give.

...d

Is WD40 any use for removing cassettes? I'm interested coz I'm just
changing from a bike with a freewheel to one with a cassette. I'd got
quite handy with the freewheel tool and wooden mallet but now it seems
I need a new bunch of tools and techniques.

POHB said:

Is WD40 any use for removing cassettes? I'm interested coz I'm
just changing from a bike with a freewheel to one with a
cassette. I'd got quite handy with the freewheel tool and wooden
mallet but now it seems I need a new bunch of tools and techniques.

Generally it should not be necessary as cassettes are much easier to
remove than freewheels. In the OP's case it sounds as the LBS
overtightened the locking ring. They do not need to be much more than
finger tight.

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

POHB said:

Is WD40 any use for removing cassettes? I'm interested coz I'm
just changing from a bike with a freewheel to one with a
cassette. I'd got quite handy with the freewheel tool and wooden
mallet but now it seems I need a new bunch of tools and techniques.

Generally it should not be necessary as cassettes are much easier to
remove than freewheels. In the OP's case it sounds as the LBS
overtightened the locking ring. They do not need to be much more than
finger tight.

They should be much more than finger tight. Shimano cassette lockrings
are stamped with a recommended torque of 40nm, that's one of the
tightest fasteners on your bike.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

Call me Bob said:

dkahn400 said:

Generally it should not be necessary as cassettes are much easier
to remove than freewheels. In the OP's case it sounds as the LBS
overtightened the locking ring. They do not need to be much more
than finger tight.

They should be much more than finger tight. Shimano cassette
lockrings are stamped with a recommended torque of 40nm, that's
one of the tightest fasteners on your bike.

I just popped over to the Shimano web site to check this and I was
astonished to find that the recommended torque is indeed from 30 to
50nm. With a minumum of searching I also found this site
<http://www.bikemojo.com/zine/wrench_more.php?id=3_0_2_0_M> that says:

"... make sure that the lockring is tight enough to prevent loosening.
Or, as tight as you would tighten the metal lid of a pickle jar, so as
to prevent liquid from seeping, if you were to turn the jar upside
down."

That's the way I always do it, and I've never had a problem with it. I
wonder if I've been doing it wrong all this time?

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

"... make sure that the lockring is tight enough to prevent loosening.
Or, as tight as you would tighten the metal lid of a pickle jar, so as
to prevent liquid from seeping, if you were to turn the jar upside
down."

That solves the mystery of the vinegar on my chain ;-)

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

POHB said:

Is WD40 any use for removing cassettes?

No need, and excess may get in the hub bearings.

Quoted message said:

I'm interested coz I'm just
changing from a bike with a freewheel to one with a cassette. I'd got
quite handy with the freewheel tool and wooden mallet but now it seems
I need a new bunch of tools and techniques.

One of the advantages of cassettes is that they're much easier to remove
because the sprockets aren't screwed hard onto the hub by pedalling force.
Just a couple of inexpensive tools required to get the lockring off (which
isn't normally extremely tight), then the sprockets simply slide off.

For Shimano: www.mwdyason.ltd.uk/shop.asp - Cassette Remover, Chain Whip.
Instructions are on Park Tools website.

~PB

dkahn400 said:

Call me Bob said:

On 5 Sep 2005 05:57:34 -0700, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Generally it should not be necessary as cassettes are much easier
to remove than freewheels. In the OP's case it sounds as the LBS
overtightened the locking ring. They do not need to be much more
than finger tight.

They should be much more than finger tight. Shimano cassette
lockrings are stamped with a recommended torque of 40nm, that's
one of the tightest fasteners on your bike.

I just popped over to the Shimano web site to check this and I was
astonished to find that the recommended torque is indeed from 30 to
50nm. With a minumum of searching I also found this site
<http://www.bikemojo.com/zine/wrench_more.php?id=3_0_2_0_M> that says:

"... make sure that the lockring is tight enough to prevent loosening.
Or, as tight as you would tighten the metal lid of a pickle jar, so as
to prevent liquid from seeping, if you were to turn the jar upside
down."

That's the way I always do it, and I've never had a problem with it. I
wonder if I've been doing it wrong all this time?

It doesn't matter as long as the lockring doesn't come loose and the
cassette doesn't rattle or creak as you ride. You could put a paint mark
on lockring and sprocket to check its progress (or lack of!).

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

It doesn't matter as long as the lockring doesn't come loose and
the cassette doesn't rattle or creak as you ride. You could put
a paint mark on lockring and sprocket to check its progress (or
lack of!).

As there are notches in the face of the lockring and the surface it
mates with I would have thought there was very little chance of its
coming loose. However, I also think those Shimano people are rather
good engineers. Maybe this is the moment to chant the magic
incantation: Sheldon Brown, Sheldon Brown, Sheldon Brown.

--
Dave...

Also sprach dkahn400 <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

It doesn't matter as long as the lockring doesn't come loose and
the cassette doesn't rattle or creak as you ride. You could put
a paint mark on lockring and sprocket to check its progress (or
lack of!).

As there are notches in the face of the lockring and the surface it
mates with I would have thought there was very little chance of its
coming loose. However, I also think those Shimano people are rather
good engineers. Maybe this is the moment to chant the magic
incantation: Sheldon Brown, Sheldon Brown, Sheldon Brown.

I've suffered from Loose Shimano Lockring Syndrome three times, however, on
two different machines. One of which was not even assembled by me.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
While you were out at the Rollright Stones, I came and set fire to your
Shed.

In article <[email hidden]>,

dkahn400 said:

In the OP's case it sounds as the LBS overtightened the locking
ring. They do not need to be much more than finger tight.

If all else fails the OP could use a cheating spoke.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

Sandy Morton said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

dkahn400 said:

In the OP's case it sounds as the LBS overtightened the locking
ring. They do not need to be much more than finger tight.

If all else fails the OP could use a cheating spoke.

Still got to get the remains of the old one out first though.

I've come across a couple of bikes where both wheels were built entirely
from cheating spokes[1]. Both were Raleigh-built bikes from around
1939. I assume that Raleigh thought that this would be a good idea to
make repairs easier but no other manufacturers followed their lead so
they gave up[2]. The fact that both bikes have survived for over 60
years and neither has any signs of any spokes being replaced would
suggest that cheating spokes are just as good as the normal ones.

[1] assuming that by "cheating spoke you mean one with a joggle in the
end, instead of a head.

[2] They couldn't really carry on alone, as it would mean that most
cycle dealers would have had to carry stocks of both sorts of spoke.

--
Andrew

dkahn400 said:

Pete Biggs said:

It doesn't matter as long as the lockring doesn't come loose and
the cassette doesn't rattle or creak as you ride. You could put
a paint mark on lockring and sprocket to check its progress (or
lack of!).

As there are notches in the face of the lockring and the surface it
mates with I would have thought there was very little chance of its
coming loose. However, I also think those Shimano people are rather
good engineers. Maybe this is the moment to chant the magic
incantation: Sheldon Brown, Sheldon Brown, Sheldon Brown.

We've had lockrings come loose. Soon after getting our tandem, we had
trouble on holiday when we had a broken hub and struggled to get the
excessively tight lockring off (with a hypercracker). So subsequently, I
made sure to not overtighten it....and it came loose at least twice. I
now do it "just right".

James

On the same subject my Brommy Privilages are on the verge of
revocation because I keep breaking spokes.. Every 50 miles or so, one
goes.

I am now having to resort to DIY repairs in order to keep on the
road.. Easy enough to get decent spokes for a 16" wheel and are they
harder or easier to repair than a full size wheel......

And they always go when climbing.

Richard Webb

Richard Webb said:

On the same subject my Brommy Privilages are on the verge of
revocation because I keep breaking spokes.. Every 50 miles or so, one
goes.

I am now having to resort to DIY repairs in order to keep on the
road.. Easy enough to get decent spokes for a 16" wheel and are they
harder or easier to repair than a full size wheel......

And they always go when climbing.

Have you got enough tension in them and did you check spoke line and
stress relieve them. Those are the failures in building that most often
lead to spoke failures in my experience.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon