Broken axle

Owen said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

I don't know, but I've been trying to get the freewheel off my main
bike yesterday and today, and it just won't budge. That's with at
least 60kg of force on the end of a 25cm spanner, too. Looks like it's
down to the LBS to find someone with more muscle power ;-)

David

--

David Trudgett
http://www.zeta.org.au/~wpower/

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy.

-- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

There is a greater propensity for axles to snap on the old screw on cluster
type hubs than the newer cassette / free-hub type. This is due to a
relatively long 'cantilevered' section of unsupported axle between the drive
side bearing and the point where it is locked into the frame dropout. The
equivalent span of axle on cassette type hubs is much shorter with a
consequent reduction in the frequency of broken axles.

Solution (if you are on old style hubs)? Upgrade to a cassette / free-hub
arrangement.

"Owen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

TIA

Owen

Owen said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

The screw-on freewheel type hubs are prone to break as the bearing
support is so far inboard of the dropouts. I broke 2 in 18 months, but
that was probably because me and my backpack weighed in excess of 100kg
and I tended to (and still do) ride hard.

I wouldn't get too worried about it. The 2 I broke both broke inboard
of the bearing race, so it should be a fairly simple case of
transferring the bearing race, spacers and locknuts onto the RHS of the
axle shaft, slide the axle into the hub and adjust from the LHS.

The broken axles I had only seemed to become a problem (ie, I only
noticed them) when I removed the wheel to repair a puncture. What found
was that in an emergency I was able to keep going by re-aligning the two
halves of the axle and tightening the quick release up Real Tight™, and
riding gently home.

--
BrettS

"Owen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

Do you have QR axles or solid axle with nuts? This is really only a problem
with nutted axles - you won't be able to ride at all, the wheel will push
onto the brake. With QR axles the compression of the QR will keep the axle
in place for a fair while. I once had a broken axle and only discovered it
when I pulled the wheel off to service the hub. No idea how long it had been
broken.

Quoted message said:

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

As others have posted, freewheel hubs are prone to this type of break, so
upgrade to a cassette-style freehub.

As for getting the cluster off in the bush, it can be done. Twenty years ago
I was touring in WA, 30 kms north of Bunbury and broke a spoke, the 2nd or
3rd in a week so decided the whole wheel needed retightening. I had to get
the cluster of anyhow to fix the spoke, so I got out the cluster tool I was
carrying, fitted it with a six inch shifter on it, and placed the tyre hard
aginst a tree trunk to brace it. Then with a large brick I'd found, I began
to bash down on the end of the shifter. I wasn't too confident of success (I
was touring with a wide-range triple crankset - puts a lot of torque on the
cluster) but it was better than nothing. Surprisingly after only a short
series of solid hits the cluster came off. In the next hour I then proceeded
t loosen off and retighten the wheel. So just be sure to carry the right
cluster tool, available from your local bike shop (LBS) and a shifter of
some sort.

Cheers
Peter

David Trudgett said:

I don't know, but I've been trying to get the freewheel off my main bike
yesterday and today, and it just won't budge. That's with at least 60kg of
force on the end of a 25cm spanner, too. Looks like it's down to the LBS
to find someone with more muscle power ;-)

That's where a rattle gun is a good thing. The load isn't particularly
high, but you get a very rapid re-application. It's like having a whole
army of miniature hammer men.

If you don't have access to a rattle gun, see if you can set up an
arrangement where you can tap the spanner repeatedly. Note that this may
not be good for your spanner.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
The family that chooses words with care together is the family that
avoids needless violence and gunplay together, is our motto.

Owen said:

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

Upgrade to cassette hubs. The bearing is outboard, so you're less likely
to break the axle in the first place. With a couple of cone spanners and
a fairly relaxed attitude to perfection, you should be able to pull the
broken bits out, thread the cones onto the drive side, slot the axle
through, then adjust from the LH side.

That's assuming you can't ride out on the busted axle anyway.
http://www.svana.org/sjh/rides/mont04/
(near the end)

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
The family that chooses words with care together is the family that
avoids needless violence and gunplay together, is our motto.

Owen said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Cassette? Do you mean cluster?
Had my cluster remover brzer on a bar between the seat stay and chain
stay. Don't forget to drill a hole in the bar for the axle when you need
to use it.

Peter Signorini said:

As for getting the cluster off in the bush, it can be done. Twenty years ago
I was touring in WA, 30 kms north of Bunbury and broke a spoke, the 2nd or
3rd in a week so decided the whole wheel needed retightening. I had to get
the cluster of anyhow to fix the spoke, so I got out the cluster tool I was
carrying, fitted it with a six inch shifter on it, and placed the tyre hard
aginst a tree trunk to brace it. Then with a large brick I'd found, I began
to bash down on the end of the shifter. I wasn't too confident of success (I
was touring with a wide-range triple crankset - puts a lot of torque on the
cluster) but it was better than nothing.

The trick to this is to remove the cluster every 6 months, regrease the
thread and then put it back on. Tends to be easier to remove than one
that has been on for a few years.

Quoted message said:

Surprisingly after only a short
series of solid hits the cluster came off. In the next hour I then proceeded
t loosen off and retighten the wheel. So just be sure to carry the right
cluster tool, available from your local bike shop (LBS) and a shifter of
some sort.

There is a cluster remover tool that fits onto the head of some cluster
removers and allows you to use the frame (hint- at the joints) as a
lever. Saves carrying a shifter. Looks like a lump of metal with two
stubby horns and a wide groove in the other side.

However, if you do carry a shifter, make sure the shifter will open wide
enough to fit your cluster remover. (been there done that).

Hint, ye olde F spanner is really good value.

Last hint, take out your seat and seat post and stick handle of shifter
down the seat tube.

Terry Collins said:

The trick to this is to remove the cluster every 6 months, regrease the
thread and then put it back on. Tends to be easier to remove than one
that has been on for a few years.

Yes, that is what I used to do back then, which probably enabled me to do
the job with such a short spanner. Granny gears are real good at jamming any
cluster on rock solid.

Quoted message said:

There is a cluster remover tool that fits onto the head of some cluster
removers and allows you to use the frame (hint- at the joints) as a
lever. Saves carrying a shifter. Looks like a lump of metal with two
stubby horns and a wide groove in the other side.

Are you talking about the Hypercracker? Now no longer available as it can
damage frame tubing. But there are some similar tools to do the same job,
removing the cluster/cassette lockring without a chain whip or big shifter.
See these:

http://www.jastein.com/Tools_for_Wheels.htm
http://www.adamk.ca/custom_bits.htm for the Lifu 09C2 lckring tool that I
have.

Quoted message said:

However, if you do carry a shifter, make sure the shifter will open wide
enough to fit your cluster remover. (been there done that).

Hint, ye olde F spanner is really good value.

That's right! I didn't have a six-inch shifter, I'd forgotten I used to
carry a small flat-faced monkey wrench on tour. The jaws would open wider
than a shifter of the same length.

Quoted message said:

Last hint, take out your seat and seat post and stick handle of shifter
down the seat tube.

You mean the seat post, I think?

Lots of good ideas to solve a roadside problem that I haven't had for years
now. Stainless steel spokes are so much better than the old plated spokes,
and freehubs make for no broken axles. It's all good.

Cheers
Peter

"Owen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

I've found my quick release clamps the axle together enough to ride to
somewhere there are tools. At one stage I was a serial axle breaker, but I
never had to walk home as a result. I did have to slow down, and ease up on
the jumps, but didn't walk. ;^)

Tony F

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last hint, take out your seat and seat post and stick handle of shifter
down the seat tube.

You mean the seat post, I think?

Lots of good ideas to solve a roadside problem that I haven't had for
years now. Stainless steel spokes are so much better than the old plated
spokes, and freehubs make for no broken axles. It's all good.

Cheers
Peter

A trick I read somewhere was to wedge the spanner somewhere solid and turn
the wheel like an oversized steering wheel. That give you a lot more
leverage and really gets the whole upper body in on the action.

Resound said:

A trick I read somewhere was to wedge the spanner somewhere solid and turn
the wheel like an oversized steering wheel. That give you a lot more
leverage and really gets the whole upper body in on the action.

Taco!
Well, if you need to be that organised, then you certainly feel that is
about to happen. It really is terrifying to be on the end of such a
setup and watch the rim as it distorts.

Oh, and eye protection is recommended as spokes can break in amazing ways.

David Trudgett said:

Owen said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

I don't know, but I've been trying to get the freewheel off my main
bike yesterday and today, and it just won't budge. That's with at
least 60kg of force on the end of a 25cm spanner, too. Looks like it's
down to the LBS to find someone with more muscle power ;-)

i have a 1 meter length of 2" pipe in my grude for this very reason 😉

cheers,

Kim

Random Data said:

David Trudgett said:

I don't know, but I've been trying to get the freewheel off my main bike
yesterday and today, and it just won't budge. That's with at least 60kg of
force on the end of a 25cm spanner, too. Looks like it's down to the LBS
to find someone with more muscle power ;-)

That's where a rattle gun is a good thing. The load isn't particularly
high, but you get a very rapid re-application. It's like having a whole
army of miniature hammer men.

If you don't have access to a rattle gun, see if you can set up an
arrangement where you can tap the spanner repeatedly. Note that this may
not be good for your spanner.

Yeah, I actually tried the tap-tap idea, though I didn't like the
possibility of doing nasty things to my spanner. Getting a vice might
be a good thing to consider for the future, but then I would need
somewhere to put it... :-)

Cheers,

David

--

David Trudgett
http://www.zeta.org.au/~wpower/

Either we have hope within us or we don't, it is a dimension of
the soul, and it's not essentially dependent on some particular
observation of the world or estimate of the situation... Hope,
in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things
are going well or willingness to invest in enterprises that are
obviously headed for early success, but rather, an ability to work
for something because it is good, not just because it stands a
chance to succeed... Hope is definitely not the same thing as
optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out
well, but the certainty that something makes sense no matter
how it turns out.

-- Vaclav Havel

Kim Hawtin said:

David Trudgett said:

I don't know, but I've been trying to get the freewheel off my main
bike yesterday and today, and it just won't budge. That's with at
least 60kg of force on the end of a 25cm spanner, too. Looks like it's
down to the LBS to find someone with more muscle power ;-)

i have a 1 meter length of 2" pipe in my grude for this very reason 😉

Interesting idea. Might be more practical than having a vice sitting
around, although I suppose one would soon find other uses for it.

I did end up taking it to the LBS yesterday, and the guy there put it
on a vice and got the thing off in about two seconds flat. Most
annoying! ;-) The nice fellow didn't charge me for it, though, so
service with a smile is not dead yet!

David

--

David Trudgett
http://www.zeta.org.au/~wpower/

A person cannot support the policies of the Bush administration
unless said person is lacking in either intelligence or decency -- or,
in the case of Bush himself, both. "I just didn't know" simply doesn't
cut it when your proclaimed ignorance is based on lies that are an
insult to the intelligence of a child.

-- David McGowan, April 2003.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr34.html

"Owen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

How about you just don't break an axle?
The old hubs with screw on cassettes will always break axles (I too used to
break one every 2 years or so - yes I'm big) as the loading from the
bearings is very off centre and too close together due to the freewheel
design. Get yourself an upgrade to a 8spd or 9spd hub, and never break an
axle again.... the bearings on them are 'outboard', within the cassette
itself instead of in the hub.

Much much easier than carying cone spanners, chainwhip, etc etc out in woop
woop! You can still retrofit whatever gearing you want on a 8 or 9 spd hub
with the use of spacers. Just stop mucking about with that old rubbish with
[censored] design - less hassle in the long run ;-)
Cheers
Gemma

On 30/11/05 at 09:25:43 Gemma_k somehow managed to type:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

How about you just don't break an axle?
The old hubs with screw on cassettes will always break axles (I too
used to break one every 2 years or so - yes I'm big) as the loading

Rubbish. I've been using a six speed freewheel on my touring bike for
years and am yet to break, or even BEND, an axle. I've broken a few
racks and broken a few rack eyelets off but I've NEVER broken an axle
despite some VERY heavy loads over VERY rough roads.

<snip>

--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)

"Gemma_k" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Owen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Broke my second axle in 6 years today. Did a search of this group and
find I'm not the first person to break a axle, and presumeably wont be
the last.

What worries me is what to do if it happens in the middle of Woop Woop.
Can easily carry a spare axle, but getting the cassette off (one of
those screw on types) in the bush is a bit of a poser.

How do other people cope with cassette removal without the convenience
of all the worshop paraphenalia?

Is there a more obliging cassette on the market?

How about you just don't break an axle?
The old hubs with screw on cassettes will always break axles (I too used

to

Quoted message said:

break one every 2 years or so - yes I'm big) as the loading from the
bearings is very off centre and too close together due to the freewheel
design. Get yourself an upgrade to a 8spd or 9spd hub, and never break an
axle again.... the bearings on them are 'outboard', within the cassette
itself instead of in the hub.

Much much easier than carying cone spanners, chainwhip, etc etc out in

woop

Quoted message said:

woop! You can still retrofit whatever gearing you want on a 8 or 9 spd

hub

Quoted message said:

with the use of spacers. Just stop mucking about with that old rubbish

with

Quoted message said:

[censored] design - less hassle in the long run ;-)

Trust me, you can still break axles with 8 and 9 spd hubs.

Especially with those [censored] Formula hubs that came on the NRS. The axle had a
groove cut into it next to a stepped section - guess where it would break!
Of course, I've broken Shimano axles as well, but they've proved more likely
to bend than snap.

Tony F

David Trudgett said:

Interesting idea. Might be more practical than having a vice sitting
around, although I suppose one would soon find other uses for it.

Triton super jaws are just brilliant
You'll need to buy the cast iron engineers jaws as well.

There is nothing like the feeling of really leaning onto the wheel where
you have the cluster remover firmly clench in the Triton super jaws.

Especially when the whole frigging jaws swigs around and clups you in
the ankle just prior to you falling over (hint, frequent cluster
servicing prevents this happening)

You can buy a vice from $40 from super cheap auto, but it look so
flimsy. You can buy sold cast iron vices from hardware shops, but you
then need a decent bench to mount them.

The jaws are expensive, but great to use and they fold away.

You can also use them to grip the frame for maintenance or painting .