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broke a spoke

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Road Cycling
Published
18 June 2006
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recycled-one
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  1. I broke a spoke on a 120 km run. Fortunately I was almost finished. It was
    mostly rail trail with some dirt roads and paved roads for the end run. The
    bike is a mtb I often use off-road on trails without a problem.

    The funny thing is the spoke went *sproing!!!* - I heard it - on a flat
    paved road. I recall last year I had a spoke do that near the end of a 100
    km run.

    Is there something about long asphalt rides that are hard on mountain bike
    spokes? Granted I'm a big boy, but I'm not that big and you would think a
    spoke would be more likely to go when crashing through bush on an extreme
    trail.

  2. "recycled-one" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I broke a spoke on a 120 km run. Fortunately I was almost finished. It was
    mostly rail trail with some dirt roads and paved roads for the end run.
    The bike is a mtb I often use off-road on trails without a problem.

    The funny thing is the spoke went *sproing!!!* - I heard it - on a flat
    paved road. I recall last year I had a spoke do that near the end of a 100
    km run.

    Is there something about long asphalt rides that are hard on mountain bike
    spokes? Granted I'm a big boy, but I'm not that big and you would think a
    spoke would be more likely to go when crashing through bush on an extreme
    trail.

    Rough track riding might weaken it, but it'll break when it wants to;
    probably more likely in cold weather.

    Quoted message said:
  3. recycled-one said:


    I broke a spoke on a 120 km run. Fortunately I was almost finished. It was
    mostly rail trail with some dirt roads and paved roads for the end run. The
    bike is a mtb I often use off-road on trails without a problem.

    The funny thing is the spoke went *sproing!!!* - I heard it - on a flat
    paved road. I recall last year I had a spoke do that near the end of a 100
    km run.

    Ahhh, well do I know that sound. Though, since building my own wheels
    it's been occuring less and less often.

    Quoted message said:

    Is there something about long asphalt rides that are hard on mountain bike
    spokes? Granted I'm a big boy, but I'm not that big and you would think a
    spoke would be more likely to go when crashing through bush on an extreme
    trail.

    Not really, spoke fatigue is a cumulative thing. It's most likely that
    peak load isn't the problem. It's the duty cycles / how even and high the
    tension is.

    --
    Dane Buson - [email hidden]
    From the UML (User Mode Linux) anouncement:
    Fixed a bug with lots of zombies causing a UML panic.
    Now UML is much braver, it doesn't panic even if there
    are lots of zombies all over the place!
    Technology is funny sometimes, isn't it?

  4. "recycled-one" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I broke a spoke on a 120 km run. Fortunately I was almost finished. It was
    mostly rail trail with some dirt roads and paved roads for the end run.
    The bike is a mtb I often use off-road on trails without a problem.

    The funny thing is the spoke went *sproing!!!* - I heard it - on a flat
    paved road. I recall last year I had a spoke do that near the end of a 100
    km run.

    Is there something about long asphalt rides that are hard on mountain bike
    spokes? Granted I'm a big boy, but I'm not that big and you would think a
    spoke would be more likely to go when crashing through bush on an extreme
    trail.

    Some spokes may be defective in some fashion. Nowadays the quality control
    of the spokes isn't all that great.
    Even if the spoke manufacturer has good quality control, the spoke wire
    itself may be of poor quality.
    A Korean Compnay, a while back, got caught making defective spoke wire. They
    had changed their process to make the wire cheaper and it didn't work out as
    expected. Which doesn't sound like a big deal until you figure out that that
    company appears to make spoke wire for most of the bicycle industry.

    Amazingly enough, most all of the spokes that broke on me appear to break on
    the long smooth fast runs where you can get up a good head of steam and
    pedal pretty hard.
    From what I read that seems to be where most of the spokes break. The spokes
    usually do not break going over rough roads, bumps, and such.
    I actually had a couple break about a couple inches from the head, and one
    broke off on the end of the threaded part too.
    I have had a couple that break, but I don't notice it for a while until I am
    cleaning, lubing and inspecting the bikes.

    As far as I can tell, properly tensioning the spokes up nicely goes a long
    way in keeping spokes from breaking. The factory built wheels are usually
    built on automated machines that do not tension the spokes up to a high
    tension setting. So one should check and retension a wheel in this case. But
    if you have a wheel custom built for you, this should not be a problem. Yes
    I have Jobst Brandt's book, and my pitiful wheel building experiences don't
    hold a candle to his experiences. But like he has mentioned you need to
    really tension those spokes good. But don't overdo it or you get a tacoed
    wheel.

    One Reference for spoke failures here
    http://www.climbonline.org/news/recalls.shtml

  5. Dane Buson <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    recycled-one said:


    I broke a spoke on a 120 km run. Fortunately I was almost finished.
    It was mostly rail trail with some dirt roads and paved roads for the
    end run. The bike is a mtb I often use off-road on trails without a
    problem.

    The funny thing is the spoke went *sproing!!!* - I heard it - on a
    flat paved road. I recall last year I had a spoke do that near the
    end of a 100 km run.

    Ahhh, well do I know that sound. Though, since building my own wheels
    it's been occuring less and less often.

    That's right, make the rest (well, some of the rest) of us feel
    inadequate... 🙂

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Is there something about long asphalt rides that are hard on mountain
    bike spokes? Granted I'm a big boy, but I'm not that big and you
    would think a spoke would be more likely to go when crashing through
    bush on an extreme trail.

    Not really, spoke fatigue is a cumulative thing. It's most likely
    that peak load isn't the problem. It's the duty cycles / how even and
    high the tension is.


    But the curve would shift given a different surface, wouldn't it? Would
    an asphalt surface give a higher average load for the same cycles, or
    even a different dynamic response within an individual cycle? (I guess
    the individual transient would have to change, but I have no particular
    leaning on how it would change).

    I've changed to a different rear wheel vs. getting it completely respoked
    because I was continually breaking spokes. I went from an Alexrim to a
    Mavic. The interesting thing is all the broken spokes were in the same
    quadrant, and two were right next to each other. I'd imagine there is a
    specific uncertainty involved with that wheel vs. an expected general
    uncertainty.

    Coincidence, or a psychic manifestation?

  6. Earl Bollinger said:

    As far as I can tell, properly tensioning the spokes up nicely goes a long
    way in keeping spokes from breaking. The factory built wheels are usually
    built on automated machines that do not tension the spokes up to a high
    tension setting. So one should check and retension a wheel in this case. But
    if you have a wheel custom built for you, this should not be a problem. Yes
    I have Jobst Brandt's book, and my pitiful wheel building experiences don't
    hold a candle to his experiences. But like he has mentioned you need to
    really tension those spokes good. But don't overdo it or you get a tacoed
    wheel.

    Low spoke tension will only cause the nipples to unscrew, it won't have
    a big effect on spoke failure. What is important to prevent spoke
    failure is to stress relieve the spokes. Perhaps you should reread the book.

  7. "Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "recycled-one" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is there something about long asphalt rides that are hard on mountain
    bike spokes? Granted I'm a big boy, but I'm not that big and you would
    think a spoke would be more likely to go when crashing through bush on an
    extreme trail.

    Rough track riding might weaken it, but it'll break when it wants to;
    probably more likely in cold weather.

    It certainly wasn't cold yesterday. Although reviewing the day's ride I do
    distinctly remember kicking up a fair sized branch on one of the rougher
    sections of trail. It could have easily banged the spoke enough to cause it
    to fail later on on the parkway.

  8. "Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Earl Bollinger said:

    As far as I can tell, properly tensioning the spokes up nicely goes a
    long way in keeping spokes from breaking. The factory built wheels are
    usually built on automated machines that do not tension the spokes up to
    a high tension setting. So one should check and retension a wheel in this
    case. But if you have a wheel custom built for you, this should not be a
    problem. Yes I have Jobst Brandt's book, and my pitiful wheel building
    experiences don't hold a candle to his experiences. But like he has
    mentioned you need to really tension those spokes good. But don't overdo
    it or you get a tacoed wheel.

    Low spoke tension will only cause the nipples to unscrew, it won't have a
    big effect on spoke failure. What is important to prevent spoke failure is
    to stress relieve the spokes. Perhaps you should reread the book.

    Yes stress releiving is important but I do not see how it will be of any
    value on those machine built wheels where the machines do not tension the
    wheels even at half the supposed proper tensions. In that case it is totally
    useless. yes spoke nipples unscrew and all that too. The LBS's seem to just
    sell the wheels with no interest in retensioning the wheels either.
    Probably makes for more sales in the near future that way.

  9. Quoted message said:

    But the curve would shift given a different surface, wouldn't it? Would
    an asphalt surface give a higher average load for the same cycles, or
    even a different dynamic response within an individual cycle? (I guess
    the individual transient would have to change, but I have no particular
    leaning on how it would change).

    My money is on the following theory: The ability of the road surface to
    effect spoke life is completely dwarfed by factors such as build quality,
    spoke quality, and wheel design.

    Chris Neary
    [email hidden]

    "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
    you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
    loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

  10. Earl Bollinger said:

    "Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Earl Bollinger said:

    As far as I can tell, properly tensioning the spokes up nicely goes a
    long way in keeping spokes from breaking. The factory built wheels are
    usually built on automated machines that do not tension the spokes up to
    a high tension setting. So one should check and retension a wheel in this
    case. But if you have a wheel custom built for you, this should not be a
    problem. Yes I have Jobst Brandt's book, and my pitiful wheel building
    experiences don't hold a candle to his experiences. But like he has
    mentioned you need to really tension those spokes good. But don't overdo
    it or you get a tacoed wheel.


    Low spoke tension will only cause the nipples to unscrew, it won't have a
    big effect on spoke failure. What is important to prevent spoke failure is
    to stress relieve the spokes. Perhaps you should reread the book.

    Yes stress releiving is important but I do not see how it will be of any
    value on those machine built wheels where the machines do not tension the
    wheels even at half the supposed proper tensions. In that case it is totally
    useless. yes spoke nipples unscrew and all that too. The LBS's seem to just
    sell the wheels with no interest in retensioning the wheels either.
    Probably makes for more sales in the near future that way.

    It's difficult to stress relieve under-tensioned spokes, but it's the
    lack of stress relief that causes spoke failures.

  11. Earl Bollinger said:

    Some spokes may be defective in some fashion. Nowadays the quality control
    of the spokes isn't all that great.

    IME, good-quality spokes in general are far more reliable today than
    ever, but at the same time there are more people using thinner and
    fewer spokes than usual. As the limits of spoke capacity are
    approached, failures can be expected to go up, but that's not due to a
    fault in the materials.

    Exception: As you noted, there was a large batch of bad spokes made
    in the recent past which were employed by a number of bike
    manufacturers unawares; *those* spokes have a QC problem in the wire
    from which they were made, but the majority of wheels weren't built
    with those.

    Quoted message said:

    Even if the spoke manufacturer has good quality control, the spoke wire
    itself may be of poor quality.
    A Korean Compnay, a while back, got caught making defective spoke wire. They
    had changed their process to make the wire cheaper and it didn't work out as
    expected. Which doesn't sound like a big deal until you figure out that that
    company appears to make spoke wire for most of the bicycle industry.

    The problem appears to have been less extensive than that, though far
    more widespread than was originally admitted. The first reports I saw
    were to the effect that only a couple of bike manufacturers were
    impacted. Then it grew...

    Quoted message said:

    Amazingly enough, most all of the spokes that broke on me appear to break on
    the long smooth fast runs where you can get up a good head of steam and
    pedal pretty hard.
    From what I read that seems to be where most of the spokes break. The spokes
    usually do not break going over rough roads, bumps, and such.

    Consider the loading cycle; hard bumps mostly accentuate the
    *unloading* of the spoke(s) near the load point, but cause very little
    or no change in the loading of the rest of the spokes in the wheel.
    Thus, spoke breakage is not likely to be more common when thrashing
    than when JRA. Since more time is generally spent JRA, the
    probabilities favor that period for the breakage event.

    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

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