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British druggists push OTC statins in pubs

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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11 August 2004
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18 August 2004
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fresh~horses
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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3554134.stm

    Pharmacists plan pub health-check

    Pharmacists are planning to visit pubs to educate drinkers about the
    risks of heart disease and offer treatment.
    Pub-goers will be able to get on-the-spot health checks, including
    blood and cholesterol tests, while they drink.

    The Co-op Pharmacy staff will then offer cholesterol-reducing drugs,
    known as statins, to those most in need.

    The Co-op says the move is necessary because those most at risk - men
    over 55 and younger men who smoke - are least likely to seek advice.

    In trial areas the Co-op will set up stalls in clubs, pubs and
    community centres.

    Statins were previously only available to people at high risk of
    developing heart disease after consulting a GP.

    But since July this year they have been available without
    prescription.

    'At risk'

    The BBC's community affairs correspondent Nicola Carslaw says critics
    believe offering these drugs could have negative effects.

    She said: "There has been criticism that the sale of these drugs will
    encourage a 'live like a slob and take a pill' mentality."

    But Co-op pharmacist Naomi Buttell said: "We've come here because
    often the people who need the information don't come into the pharmacy
    or go to their GP.

    "So we've come to them to explain why they are at risk and what they
    can do about it."

    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/3554134.stm

    Published: 2004/08/11 06:36:05 GMT

    © BBC MMIV

  2. At least these drug pushers will be in the context that we are
    accustomed. Bars have always been full of drug pushers. Now you can
    get your nicotine, alcohol, illicit drugs and legal drugs all at once
    and in the same place. Kind of appropriate in a sad and pathetic way.

    TC

    [email hidden] (fresh~horses) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3554134.stm

    Pharmacists plan pub health-check

    Pharmacists are planning to visit pubs to educate drinkers about the
    risks of heart disease and offer treatment.
    Pub-goers will be able to get on-the-spot health checks, including
    blood and cholesterol tests, while they drink.

    The Co-op Pharmacy staff will then offer cholesterol-reducing drugs,
    known as statins, to those most in need.

    The Co-op says the move is necessary because those most at risk - men
    over 55 and younger men who smoke - are least likely to seek advice.

    In trial areas the Co-op will set up stalls in clubs, pubs and
    community centres.

    Statins were previously only available to people at high risk of
    developing heart disease after consulting a GP.

    But since July this year they have been available without
    prescription.

    'At risk'

    The BBC's community affairs correspondent Nicola Carslaw says critics
    believe offering these drugs could have negative effects.

    She said: "There has been criticism that the sale of these drugs will
    encourage a 'live like a slob and take a pill' mentality."

    But Co-op pharmacist Naomi Buttell said: "We've come here because
    often the people who need the information don't come into the pharmacy
    or go to their GP.

    "So we've come to them to explain why they are at risk and what they
    can do about it."

    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/3554134.stm

    Published: 2004/08/11 06:36:05 GMT

    © BBC MMIV

  3. The UK like canada has a socialized health system.

    Proverbs 11:26 says that "People curse the man who hoards grain but
    blessings crown him who is willing to sell." This passage points out that to
    create an artificial shortage in the face of genuine human need is a
    detestable practice. Socialism - which has historically presented itself as
    the political philosophy of compassion - has always resulted in reduced and
    poorer services, artificial shortages and rationing. This is true regardless
    of where it has been tried or what aspect of life it has been applied to;
    socialism has never raised the standard of living and level of care for the
    less fortunate. Socialized medical care is no exception. Wherever it has
    been introduced, including in our own country, the result has been declining
    standards and the rationing of medical care.

    I have listened with great concern as President Clinton has attempted to
    convince the American public that the solution to the "health care crisis"
    is to adopt a Canadian-style form of socialized medical coverage. My
    first-hand experience with socialized medicine has convinced me that if the
    Clinton plan were adopted, it would be a disaster for all American citizens
    as well as thousands of Canadian citizens.

    At the beginning of November 1993, my Canadian doctor diagnosed that I had a
    major inguinal hernia that would require surgery. Upon his diagnosis, my
    doctor put me immediately on the surgery wait list. After waiting over four
    months, I had still not heard any word as to an expected surgery date.
    Because I was in pain and discomfort every day and had physically
    deteriorated to such an extent that some people barely recognized me, I
    sought out medical care at a hospital in Seattle, Washington. When the
    Seattle doctor saw my hernia he was aghast that I had waited for over four
    and a half months for surgery. He then asked me what day I would like to
    have my surgery!

    Not only was my surgery prompt, but as a result of the advanced medical
    procedures not available in Canada, my recovery time was a fraction of the
    time the same procedure would require in Canada. In Canada I would have been
    required to wait two weeks before I could drive a car, five weeks before
    returning to work, and six weeks before lifting anything over 35 pounds.
    After my surgery in Seattle, I was driving in three days, walking 2-3 miles
    in four days, and back in the gym bench pressing weights in 10 days. Since I
    could schedule the surgery when it was convenient for me, I did so over
    Spring break (I am a school principal). As a result I only missed one day of
    work. Recovery time, with the accompanying expenses of replacement labour
    and unemployment insurance claims, is an important (and often forgotten)
    factor in the total cost of medical care.

    Not long ago, one of our staff members' husband was in an accident that
    severed the ligament in his shoulder and rendered his arm almost useless.
    Despite the severity of the injury and the fact that he was a self-employed
    construction worker it was an entire year before he was able to receive
    surgery. The delay in corrective surgery created untold financial distress
    (not to mention great physical distress) for him and his family, and because
    of the long delay, it was impossible to effectively correct the damage.
    (American doctors had advised that "the window of opportunity" for
    correcting his type of damage was only two weeks from time of injury.)

    Most Canadians are proud of their country's health-care system; they believe
    that they will receive good health-care, when they need it. Are my examples
    exceptions to the rule? Apparently not. The Virginia Mason Hospital in
    Seattle told me that the B.C. government asked three Seattle hospitals if
    they would serve 100 patients who needed CAT scans and were unable to obtain
    them in B.C. due to the shortage of medical equipment. Edward Annis in his
    book Code Blue comments:

    "The following is just a sampling of the waiting periods for Canadians who
    cannot afford to leave the country: in the province of Newfoundland, the ave
    rage wait for a coronary bypass is over three months; in Manitoba, the
    average wait for hip surgery is ten-and-a-half months; in Nova Scotia,
    patients wait an average of almost eight months just to fix a hammer toe; in
    British Columbia, the wait to drain fluid from a patient's ear canal is
    almost three months; and in New Brunswick, the average wait for a vaginal
    repair or a hysterectomy is almost three months. Long waiting periods for
    medical treatments are found in all Canadian provinces...."

    Maclean's magazine reported in February, 1989 that 40 children who needed
    heart surgery were turned away by the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto;
    six people died after waiting for six months for heart bypass surgery in a
    Manitoba hospital during one year; and about 1000 people must wait up to a
    year for heart bypass surgery in one of three hospitals in Toronto. The
    Toronto Globe and Mail reported on July 28, 1988, that, due to a shortage of
    equipment, over 700 kidney stone patients were sent annually to Buffalo and
    New York for treatment, leaving 800 patients on the waiting list. Steven
    Globerman, in his article, "Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists In
    Canada" (published by the Fraser Institute, Vancouver, B.C.) noted that in
    British Columbia the average wait for heart surgery is 5.5 months and the
    average wait for hernia surgery is 5.7 months and often more than a year.
    (As it turned out, my wait in B.C. would have been eight months.)

    Furthermore, the Ottawa Citizen, February 4, 1989, reported that in British
    Columbia alone, 24 patients died the previous year waiting for heart
    surgery. Every year, thousands of Canadian Citizens flock from British
    Columbia to the state of Washington to receive a variety of procedures from
    heart surgery to cancer treatments, treatments which Canadians cannot
    receive under their own socialized medical care plan.

    Socialized medicine not only restricts availability of medical care, but it
    also reduces the quality of medical care. The Globe and Mail reported, March
    15, 1994:

    "There are some physicians who are routinely seeing more than 100 patients
    a day in their offices," said Dr. Warren Davidson, the lead researcher, who
    is chief of geriatric medicine at the Moncton Hospital in New Brunswick.
    When you have that kind of practice behaviour, you have to wonder about the
    quality of care. Another of the researchers, Dr. William Molloy, remarked
    that some doctors "churn patients through their office like so many
    customers through a supermarket checkout counter."

    Dr. Molloy, associate professor of medicine at McMaster University and
    consulting geriatrician at the Hamilton Civic Hospital says, "It's hard to
    imagine that patients would receive the correct diagnosis and proper
    treatment after being seen for only a brief time by a physician."

    Why do physicians cram so many patients through their offices each day?
    Because the government sets the price rates of each patient's visit, and
    doctors increase the number of patient visits an hour in order to increase
    their pay. Under our scheme, the doctor does not have an economic incentive
    to serve the patient, but rather the system, since the system and not the
    patient pays the doctor.

    The medical crisis in Canada will get worse. As health care costs continue
    to rise, as governments continue to accumulate massive debts (per capita
    government debt in Canada is twice as high as in the U.S.), and as an
    already heavily-taxed population reaches its tolerance limit of tax
    increases, the state of health care will continue to deteriorate. The money
    is running out while at the same time an aging population requires greater
    medical care. Compounding the problem is the fact that, due to continued low
    birth rates, fewer people are entering the work force which supports the
    welfare and medical system. Furthermore, as the full cost of the AIDS
    epidemic is felt in the next decade, and as the courts continue to grant
    outrageous lawsuit claims against medical establishments, Canadian
    provincial governments will face a medical nemesis of catastrophic
    proportions. Socialized medical care will be critically ill - possibly by
    the end of the decade.

    The solution to American and Canadian medical health care problems is not
    more government intervention. Rather, government needs to get out of the
    medical care business and allow the widest possible choices in medical care.
    Variety, choice and competition are the only means to ensure practitioners
    and care facilities become more efficient and more sensitive to the needs
    and concerns of health care consumers. Like every other type of business,
    the company that offers the best service at the best price will acquire the
    customer.

    Christians need to redeem the medical care field back to a Biblical order.
    One hundred years ago, almost all the institutions of mercy in North America
    were run by the church. Those Christian practitioners of medicine worked
    sacrificially for "minister's" wages in humility and the fear of God. Their
    purpose for entering the field of medicine was not for social status or to a
    build a house on the hill with a swimming pool in the back yard, but rather
    to help the hurting. They viewed people as beings of great value who were
    created in the image of God. They did not see their patients as mere
    biological organisms but recognized that people were a composite creation of
    body, soul and spirit and that some of the maladies that affect the body may
    have their origin in the emotional/spiritual dimension of the person.

    Christians need wisdom and insight to see the long-term results of
    socialized medicine. God's people must also have the conviction to
    personally serve the needs of the hurting and the courage to resist statist
    governments' false claims to be society's medical saviour.

  4. "Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The UK like canada has a socialized health system.

    Proverbs 11:26 says that "People curse the man who hoards grain but
    blessings crown him who is willing to sell." This passage points out that


    to

    Quoted message said:

    create an artificial shortage in the face of genuine human need is a
    detestable practice.

    What [censored]. They want to make drugs MORE available. You ae the shortage
    boy.

  5. What do you recommend for the 40 or so percent of Americans who can
    no longer afford insurance because it is increasing at 20% or so per
    year?
    Go to Canada? My skilled wife is too young to be covered by
    Medicare, and yet too old, apparently, to be employed.
    Your advice anxiously awaited.
    MikeV
    Former Republican

    We are well on the way to having the finest majority unaffordable
    system in the world.

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The UK like canada has a socialized health system.

  6. MikeV said:

    What do you recommend for the 40 or so percent of Americans who can
    no longer afford insurance because it is increasing at 20% or so per
    year?

    I would recommend folks shelter a portion of their income (that portion
    they have from the difference in premiums between a $100 deductible
    policy and high deductible policy) with an HSA/MSA *before* they become
    chronically ill.

    Quoted message said:


    Go to Canada?

    No.

    Quoted message said:

    My skilled wife is too young to be covered by
    Medicare, and yet too old, apparently, to be employed.

    You will be in my prayers, neighbor.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  7. Robert said:

    The UK like canada has a socialized health system.

    Proverbs 11:26 says that "People curse the man who hoards grain but
    blessings crown him who is willing to sell." This passage points out that to
    create an artificial shortage in the face of genuine human need is a
    detestable practice. Socialism - which has historically presented itself as
    the political philosophy of compassion - has always resulted in reduced and
    poorer services, artificial shortages and rationing. This is true regardless
    of where it has been tried or what aspect of life it has been applied to;
    socialism has never raised the standard of living and level of care for the
    less fortunate. Socialized medical care is no exception. Wherever it has
    been introduced, including in our own country, the result has been declining
    standards and the rationing of medical care.

    I have listened with great concern as President Clinton has attempted to
    convince the American public that the solution to the "health care crisis"
    is to adopt a Canadian-style form of socialized medical coverage. My
    first-hand experience with socialized medicine has convinced me that if the
    Clinton plan were adopted, it would be a disaster for all American citizens
    as well as thousands of Canadian citizens.

    At the beginning of November 1993, my Canadian doctor diagnosed that I had a
    major inguinal hernia that would require surgery. Upon his diagnosis, my
    doctor put me immediately on the surgery wait list. After waiting over four
    months, I had still not heard any word as to an expected surgery date.
    Because I was in pain and discomfort every day and had physically
    deteriorated to such an extent that some people barely recognized me, I
    sought out medical care at a hospital in Seattle, Washington. When the
    Seattle doctor saw my hernia he was aghast that I had waited for over four
    and a half months for surgery. He then asked me what day I would like to
    have my surgery!

    Not only was my surgery prompt, but as a result of the advanced medical
    procedures not available in Canada, my recovery time was a fraction of the
    time the same procedure would require in Canada. In Canada I would have been
    required to wait two weeks before I could drive a car, five weeks before
    returning to work, and six weeks before lifting anything over 35 pounds.
    After my surgery in Seattle, I was driving in three days, walking 2-3 miles
    in four days, and back in the gym bench pressing weights in 10 days. Since I
    could schedule the surgery when it was convenient for me, I did so over
    Spring break (I am a school principal). As a result I only missed one day of
    work. Recovery time, with the accompanying expenses of replacement labour
    and unemployment insurance claims, is an important (and often forgotten)
    factor in the total cost of medical care.

    Not long ago, one of our staff members' husband was in an accident that
    severed the ligament in his shoulder and rendered his arm almost useless.
    Despite the severity of the injury and the fact that he was a self-employed
    construction worker it was an entire year before he was able to receive
    surgery. The delay in corrective surgery created untold financial distress
    (not to mention great physical distress) for him and his family, and because
    of the long delay, it was impossible to effectively correct the damage.
    (American doctors had advised that "the window of opportunity" for
    correcting his type of damage was only two weeks from time of injury.)

    Most Canadians are proud of their country's health-care system; they believe
    that they will receive good health-care, when they need it. Are my examples
    exceptions to the rule? Apparently not. The Virginia Mason Hospital in
    Seattle told me that the B.C. government asked three Seattle hospitals if
    they would serve 100 patients who needed CAT scans and were unable to obtain
    them in B.C. due to the shortage of medical equipment. Edward Annis in his
    book Code Blue comments:

    "The following is just a sampling of the waiting periods for Canadians who
    cannot afford to leave the country: in the province of Newfoundland, the ave
    rage wait for a coronary bypass is over three months; in Manitoba, the
    average wait for hip surgery is ten-and-a-half months; in Nova Scotia,
    patients wait an average of almost eight months just to fix a hammer toe; in
    British Columbia, the wait to drain fluid from a patient's ear canal is
    almost three months; and in New Brunswick, the average wait for a vaginal
    repair or a hysterectomy is almost three months. Long waiting periods for
    medical treatments are found in all Canadian provinces...."

    Maclean's magazine reported in February, 1989 that 40 children who needed
    heart surgery were turned away by the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto;
    six people died after waiting for six months for heart bypass surgery in a
    Manitoba hospital during one year; and about 1000 people must wait up to a
    year for heart bypass surgery in one of three hospitals in Toronto. The
    Toronto Globe and Mail reported on July 28, 1988, that, due to a shortage of
    equipment, over 700 kidney stone patients were sent annually to Buffalo and
    New York for treatment, leaving 800 patients on the waiting list. Steven
    Globerman, in his article, "Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists In
    Canada" (published by the Fraser Institute, Vancouver, B.C.) noted that in
    British Columbia the average wait for heart surgery is 5.5 months and the
    average wait for hernia surgery is 5.7 months and often more than a year.
    (As it turned out, my wait in B.C. would have been eight months.)

    Furthermore, the Ottawa Citizen, February 4, 1989, reported that in British
    Columbia alone, 24 patients died the previous year waiting for heart
    surgery. Every year, thousands of Canadian Citizens flock from British
    Columbia to the state of Washington to receive a variety of procedures from
    heart surgery to cancer treatments, treatments which Canadians cannot
    receive under their own socialized medical care plan.

    Socialized medicine not only restricts availability of medical care, but it
    also reduces the quality of medical care. The Globe and Mail reported, March
    15, 1994:

    "There are some physicians who are routinely seeing more than 100 patients
    a day in their offices," said Dr. Warren Davidson, the lead researcher, who
    is chief of geriatric medicine at the Moncton Hospital in New Brunswick.
    When you have that kind of practice behaviour, you have to wonder about the
    quality of care. Another of the researchers, Dr. William Molloy, remarked
    that some doctors "churn patients through their office like so many
    customers through a supermarket checkout counter."

    Dr. Molloy, associate professor of medicine at McMaster University and
    consulting geriatrician at the Hamilton Civic Hospital says, "It's hard to
    imagine that patients would receive the correct diagnosis and proper
    treatment after being seen for only a brief time by a physician."

    Why do physicians cram so many patients through their offices each day?
    Because the government sets the price rates of each patient's visit, and
    doctors increase the number of patient visits an hour in order to increase
    their pay. Under our scheme, the doctor does not have an economic incentive
    to serve the patient, but rather the system, since the system and not the
    patient pays the doctor.

    The medical crisis in Canada will get worse. As health care costs continue
    to rise, as governments continue to accumulate massive debts (per capita
    government debt in Canada is twice as high as in the U.S.), and as an
    already heavily-taxed population reaches its tolerance limit of tax
    increases, the state of health care will continue to deteriorate. The money
    is running out while at the same time an aging population requires greater
    medical care. Compounding the problem is the fact that, due to continued low
    birth rates, fewer people are entering the work force which supports the
    welfare and medical system. Furthermore, as the full cost of the AIDS
    epidemic is felt in the next decade, and as the courts continue to grant
    outrageous lawsuit claims against medical establishments, Canadian
    provincial governments will face a medical nemesis of catastrophic
    proportions. Socialized medical care will be critically ill - possibly by
    the end of the decade.

    The solution to American and Canadian medical health care problems is not
    more government intervention. Rather, government needs to get out of the
    medical care business and allow the widest possible choices in medical care.
    Variety, choice and competition are the only means to ensure practitioners
    and care facilities become more efficient and more sensitive to the needs
    and concerns of health care consumers. Like every other type of business,
    the company that offers the best service at the best price will acquire the
    customer.

    Christians need to redeem the medical care field back to a Biblical order.
    One hundred years ago, almost all the institutions of mercy in North America
    were run by the church. Those Christian practitioners of medicine worked
    sacrificially for "minister's" wages in humility and the fear of God. Their
    purpose for entering the field of medicine was not for social status or to a
    build a house on the hill with a swimming pool in the back yard, but rather
    to help the hurting. They viewed people as beings of great value who were
    created in the image of God. They did not see their patients as mere
    biological organisms but recognized that people were a composite creation of
    body, soul and spirit and that some of the maladies that affect the body may
    have their origin in the emotional/spiritual dimension of the person.

    Christians need wisdom and insight to see the long-term results of
    socialized medicine. God's people must also have the conviction to
    personally serve the needs of the hurting and the courage to resist statist
    governments' false claims to be society's medical saviour.

    Trust in God, brother. He is in control here.

    May medical care in Canada improve so that He will be so glorified, in Christ's
    name.

    For this you will be in my prayers, brother whom I love.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  8. Health care can be bad anywhere. For instance my son who had no insurance
    at the time went to the local ER (in rural State of Mississippi) for chest
    pain. They wouldn't even do an EKG on him! Said it was his nerves. If he
    had insurance the hospital could collect from they would have ran a bunch of
    tests. Fortunately he seems OK even thought we found he has hypertension
    and high chlorestrol levels.

    He now has Medicaid but he can't see my doctor as she only accept Medicare
    patients. Medicaid must really be a pain in the end for physicians to deal
    with.

    What happens in Canada if you really have no money for healthcare? Will the
    American hospital treat you without cash or American medical insurance? Are
    you covered by Canadian health care insurance if you go to America for
    treatment? Can the American hospital bill Canada for your care?

  9. "MikeV" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    What do you recommend for the 40 or so percent of Americans who can
    no longer afford insurance because it is increasing at 20% or so per
    year?
    Go to Canada? My skilled wife is too young to be covered by
    Medicare, and yet too old, apparently, to be employed.
    Your advice anxiously awaited.
    MikeV
    Former Republican

    We are well on the way to having the finest majority unaffordable
    system in the world.

    "Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The UK like canada has a socialized health system.

    Yes come. By far the majority of immigrants to Canada are Americans.
    What is your wife's skill?

    Here you will be covered by basic health care even if you have no
    extra health insurance and neither of you worked although a
    supplemental insurance such as Blue Cross can be bought to cover
    extras.

    Most employers offer supplemental health coverage that is mandatory
    with your benefits package and paid usually half/half.

    Contract work however is s different and evolving story for coverage.
    As a sometime editor and former journalist I always paid my own
    supplemental health insurance. Now I have only the government basic.
    My province is one of two (I believe) which has a minimum fee for
    basic. In all others basic is free.

    This fee is a constant friction in these two provinces as federal
    health care guarantees all citizens universal basic healthcare. These
    two provinces (both Conservative governments) flout the system.
    However if I refused to pay it I would be turned over to credit
    collectors by my provinces health department and For one adult in the
    two provinces which charge it is about $500 a year.

    One thing to remember if you come: you'll be Canadian eh?

    Zee

  10. "Pumbaa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Health care can be bad anywhere. For instance my son who had no insurance
    at the time went to the local ER (in rural State of Mississippi) for chest
    pain. They wouldn't even do an EKG on him! Said it was his nerves. If he
    had insurance the hospital could collect from they would have ran a bunch of
    tests. Fortunately he seems OK even thought we found he has hypertension
    and high chlorestrol levels.

    He now has Medicaid but he can't see my doctor as she only accept Medicare
    patients. Medicaid must really be a pain in the end for physicians to deal
    with.

    Quoted message said:


    What happens in Canada if you really have no money for healthcare?

    Then you would be covered by social assistance, if you are on that. Or
    you go to a hospital emergency. Or you find a doctor willing to treat
    you without coverage.

    Will the

    Quoted message said:

    American hospital treat you without cash or American medical insurance?

    Not sure what you are asking here, of whom.

    Are

    Quoted message said:

    you covered by Canadian health care insurance if you go to America for
    treatment?

    Only if your provincal health care agrees to cover you, upon
    application for a particular procedure. It may; it may not.

    Can the American hospital bill Canada for your care?

    Yes. But your province is billed I believe and each differs. See
    above.

    Zee

  11. I was referring to a hypothetical Canadian who was told he had long wait for
    health care in Canada but did not have much cash. He manages to get a ride
    from Canada to the States and shows up at an American hospital. He says he
    needs an operation now and can't wait four months until his appointment with
    the Canadian health care doctor The American doctor agrees that he should
    be treated ASAP. What would happen? Would he be treated if he had bad
    credit and no cash?

    It would seem to me if you are very poor it would be better to receive
    health care eventually in Canada than to never get it in America because of
    no insurance or money. Just being poor in America does not automatically
    get you on any kind of government assistance. If you are a poor child you
    will get help pretty easily but not if you are an adult

    There are lawyers down here that specialize in getting people on social
    security disability. It may take a person years to get on Social Security
    Disability if he can't work. It usually involves much paperwork, a meeting
    with a judge, etc. If you are truly sick, you will need assistance from
    someone just to handle all the paperwork involved in trying to get social
    help..

    Quoted message said:

    Will the American hospital treat you without cash or American medical


    insurance?

    Quoted message said:

    Not sure what you are asking here, of whom.

  12. "Pumbaa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Health care can be bad anywhere. For instance my son who had no insurance
    at the time went to the local ER (in rural State of Mississippi) for chest
    pain. They wouldn't even do an EKG on him! Said it was his nerves. If he
    had insurance the hospital could collect from they would have ran a bunch of
    tests. Fortunately he seems OK even thought we found he has hypertension
    and high chlorestrol levels.

    He now has Medicaid but he can't see my doctor as she only accept Medicare
    patients. Medicaid must really be a pain in the end for physicians to deal
    with.

    What happens in Canada if you really have no money for healthcare? Will the
    American hospital treat you without cash or American medical insurance? Are
    you covered by Canadian health care insurance if you go to America for
    treatment? Can the American hospital bill Canada for your care?

    There is no such thing as having no money for healthcare in Canada. If
    you need healthcare, you go see your doctor, go to a walk-in clinic or
    go to the ER. You will be seen and you will be treated when you need
    to be treated. And you will receive no bill. That is handled between
    the healthcare professional and Health Canada. There is very little
    fraud. The system is well managed and the doctors love it. They don't
    need to chase people for payment.

    What isn't covered is dental care and precriptions. That is your cost.
    Most, or many, employers have some extra insurance (for employees)
    like BlueCross for dental, orthodontics, chiropractic, prescriptions,
    etc, usually up to 80% coverage up to an annual maximum.

    From what I understand, before you leave Canada to go to the states,
    it is good common-sense that you purchase extra travel health
    insurance just to be safe, but if you do require emergency health
    care, I believe that it is covered. The american healthcare system
    will treat you and bill the canadian system.

    TC

  13. "Pumbaa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Health care can be bad anywhere. For instance my son who had no insurance
    at the time went to the local ER (in rural State of Mississippi) for chest
    pain. They wouldn't even do an EKG on him! Said it was his nerves. If he
    had insurance the hospital could collect from they would have ran a bunch of
    tests. Fortunately he seems OK even thought we found he has hypertension
    and high chlorestrol levels.

    He now has Medicaid but he can't see my doctor as she only accept Medicare
    patients. Medicaid must really be a pain in the end for physicians to deal
    with.

    What happens in Canada if you really have no money for healthcare? Will the
    American hospital treat you without cash or American medical insurance? Are
    you covered by Canadian health care insurance if you go to America for
    treatment? Can the American hospital bill Canada for your care?

    Oh ok I understand better what you are asking. Terry's answer is
    correct, legally, and in his province. In my province where there is a
    Conservative (and conservative) government which is trying to move to
    American-style for profit health care the situation is a bit different
    and you might be in for a fight to get your operation and attendent
    costs paid for. Also, you cannot just go see a specialist (surgeon).
    You must be referred by a family physician. Both would have to agree
    to do your operation for nothing, or petition provincial health care
    to cover you by exception. Believe me you'd have lots of angry Friends
    of Medicare supporters on your side. But not the best situation right?
    It's because of these governments wanting to bring in for-profit
    health care.

    I think some doctors might not want to treat you if you had not paid
    your health care premium. If you have a family doctor, as they want
    you to do, you may be ok then with someone who would understand your
    situation and sympathize, hopefully.

    With some exception for additonal procedures universal healtcare
    through the federal govt and your varying provincial govt pays the
    physician, whether in a clinic or the hospital. But for example, my
    doctor doesn't do cortisone shots and I had to pay for them at a
    podiatrist. I also had to pay to see the podiatrist each time. I also
    had to pay for orthotics because basic healthcare does not cover them.

    You cannot go to the States and have a procedure. American doctors
    know they cannot carte blanche expect payment without prior approval.
    Emergency care while in the States is billed to Health Canada and the
    appropriate province. Either chosen or emergency care for me in the
    States may only be paid to the scale paid in Canada.

    And all of this is subject to edit by Terry who knows more than I.

    Zee

  14. "tcomeau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Pumbaa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Health care can be bad anywhere. For instance my son who had no


    insurance

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at the time went to the local ER (in rural State of Mississippi) for


    chest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pain. They wouldn't even do an EKG on him! Said it was his nerves. If


    he

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    had insurance the hospital could collect from they would have ran a


    bunch of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    tests. Fortunately he seems OK even thought we found he has


    hypertension

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and high chlorestrol levels.

    He now has Medicaid but he can't see my doctor as she only accept


    Medicare

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    patients. Medicaid must really be a pain in the end for physicians to


    deal

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with.

    What happens in Canada if you really have no money for healthcare? Will


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    American hospital treat you without cash or American medical insurance?


    Are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you covered by Canadian health care insurance if you go to America for
    treatment? Can the American hospital bill Canada for your care?

    There is no such thing as having no money for healthcare in Canada. If
    you need healthcare, you go see your doctor, go to a walk-in clinic or
    go to the ER. You will be seen and you will be treated when you need
    to be treated. And you will receive no bill. That is handled between
    the healthcare professional and Health Canada. There is very little
    fraud. The system is well managed and the doctors love it. They don't
    need to chase people for payment.

    The doctors get paid by the state and do not serve the people and are not
    anwserable to the patients. They have to see a hundred patients a day in
    order to make ends meet as they get a limited pay for each patient. They
    have very little time with each patient and make mistakes on diagnosis and
    treatment because of the rush.

    Quoted message said:


    What isn't covered is dental care and precriptions. That is your cost.
    Most, or many, employers have some extra insurance (for employees)
    like BlueCross for dental, orthodontics, chiropractic, prescriptions,
    etc, usually up to 80% coverage up to an annual maximum.

    From what I understand, before you leave Canada to go to the states,
    it is good common-sense that you purchase extra travel health
    insurance just to be safe, but if you do require emergency health
    care, I believe that it is covered. The american healthcare system
    will treat you and bill the canadian system.

    TC

  15. "Robert" <Robert> wrote in message .com...

    Quoted message said:

    The doctors get paid by the state and do not serve the people and are not
    anwserable to the patients. They have to see a hundred patients a day in
    order to make ends meet as they get a limited pay for each patient. They
    have very little time with each patient and make mistakes on diagnosis and
    treatment because of the rush.

    there is a "cap" on how much a Dr is allowed to make in a year..... that's
    his gross salary that he pays for rent, receptionist, secretary and all
    incidental costs out of

    most Dr's work 3 months of the year for NO salary

    to offset this, some practices are going to 3 days a week practices.....
    that reduces some of their overhead to co-incide with the fact that they are
    NOT bringing in any income for 3 months of the year

    and we wonder why Dr's are mass evacuating to the US to set up their
    practices

  16. "Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Robert" <Robert> wrote in message .com...

    Quoted message said:

    The doctors get paid by the state and do not serve the people and are


    not

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    anwserable to the patients. They have to see a hundred patients a day in
    order to make ends meet as they get a limited pay for each patient. They
    have very little time with each patient and make mistakes on diagnosis


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    treatment because of the rush.

    there is a "cap" on how much a Dr is allowed to make in a year..... that's
    his gross salary that he pays for rent, receptionist, secretary and all
    incidental costs out of

    most Dr's work 3 months of the year for NO salary

    to offset this, some practices are going to 3 days a week practices.....
    that reduces some of their overhead to co-incide with the fact that they


    are

    Quoted message said:

    NOT bringing in any income for 3 months of the year

    and we wonder why Dr's are mass evacuating to the US to set up their
    practices


    I have worked with some and to say that it is good to have government placed
    between the patient doctor relationship under any circumstance or system has
    never been a doctor.

  17. "Robert" < wrote in message .com...

    Quoted message said:

    I have worked with some and to say that it is good to have government


    placed

    Quoted message said:

    between the patient doctor relationship under any circumstance or system


    has

    Quoted message said:

    never been a doctor.

    i have never had a Doctor treat me inappropriately as a patient (ie...
    ignore my complaints or whatever) under the socialised medicine that we have
    in Canada

    i HAVE however been threatened to have my license removed from me and all
    sorts of "dire consequences" if i chose to NOT follow-up on sleep apnea thru
    a 'private' clinic.... and i was treated VERY terribly by THAT doctor (whom
    i never did go back to see due to his 'bully' ways)

    oh..... the private clinic needed $2K minimum for a sleep study...... and
    while this was being talked about it was discovered that if *I* was paying
    for it, then it could probably be done for only $650...... yeah..... this
    experience really made me feel good about 'for profit' medicare

    NOT

  18. "Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Robert" < wrote in message .com...

    Quoted message said:

    I have worked with some and to say that it is good to have government


    placed

    Quoted message said:

    between the patient doctor relationship under any circumstance or system


    has

    Quoted message said:

    never been a doctor.

    i have never had a Doctor treat me inappropriately as a patient (ie...
    ignore my complaints or whatever) under the socialised medicine that we


    have

    Quoted message said:

    in Canada

    You don't have a choice if they did. Do you think it is appropriate to wait
    in pain for six months and then have surgery. If you needed surgery then you
    should have it. The six months is because of rationing of health care. Pick
    up a medical book and look under diagnosis and treatment and tell me if it
    says anthing about 6 months in between. That is government making doctors
    give inapproprate care.

    Quoted message said:


    i HAVE however been threatened to have my license removed from me and all
    sorts of "dire consequences" if i chose to NOT follow-up on sleep apnea


    thru

    Quoted message said:

    a 'private' clinic.... and i was treated VERY terribly by THAT doctor


    (whom

    Quoted message said:

    i never did go back to see due to his 'bully' ways)


    Then he would go out of business and then he would sign up with the canadian
    health system.

    Quoted message said:


    oh..... the private clinic needed $2K minimum for a sleep study...... and
    while this was being talked about it was discovered that if *I* was paying
    for it, then it could probably be done for only $650...... yeah..... this
    experience really made me feel good about 'for profit' medicare

    NOT


    And so you thought that you should have the study for free? If the study was
    done by the canadian system would it be for free? Free for who as somebody
    does in fact pay for it. You dearly pay for it in taxes.

  19. "Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    i never did go back to see due to his 'bully' ways)


    Then he would go out of business and then he would sign up with the


    canadian

    Quoted message said:

    health system.

    Quoted message said:


    oh..... the private clinic needed $2K minimum for a sleep study......


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    while this was being talked about it was discovered that if *I* was


    paying

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for it, then it could probably be done for only $650...... yeah.....


    this

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    experience really made me feel good about 'for profit' medicare

    NOT


    And so you thought that you should have the study for free? If the study


    was

    Quoted message said:

    done by the canadian system would it be for free? Free for who as somebody
    does in fact pay for it. You dearly pay for it in taxes.


    no...... it was the bullying that turned me off...... then the
    "negotiability of the process"
    when your price can drop to 25% of one of the discussed values of the study
    in a matter of a few minutes of "gee, i don't think my insurance will cover
    that, gee i don't think i can afford that right now, i'll save up for it"

    for profit medicare scares me

  20. "Tiger Lily" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    i never did go back to see due to his 'bully' ways)


    Then he would go out of business and then he would sign up with the


    canadian

    Quoted message said:

    health system.

    Quoted message said:


    oh..... the private clinic needed $2K minimum for a sleep study......


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    while this was being talked about it was discovered that if *I* was


    paying

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for it, then it could probably be done for only $650...... yeah.....


    this

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    experience really made me feel good about 'for profit' medicare

    NOT


    And so you thought that you should have the study for free? If the study


    was

    Quoted message said:

    done by the canadian system would it be for free? Free for who as


    somebody

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    does in fact pay for it. You dearly pay for it in taxes.


    no...... it was the bullying that turned me off...... then the
    "negotiability of the process"
    when your price can drop to 25% of one of the discussed values of the


    study

    Quoted message said:

    in a matter of a few minutes of "gee, i don't think my insurance will


    cover

    Quoted message said:

    that, gee i don't think i can afford that right now, i'll save up for it"

    for profit medicare scares me


    It scares most people including me which is why most are non profit. When
    money is the bottom line and it starts to impact the way you do things then
    you start getting something more like the canadian system of rationing care
    and quality.

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