Breastroke cycle per 25 yards

whats their 100 time?

"HS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From push off, how many breast stroke cycles (kick, breath, etc) should

one

Quoted message said:

expect from swimmer with correct technique to do 1 lap? For example, 6' swimmer should be able to
do 7 - 10 per 25 yards?

"HS" > From push off, how many breast stroke cycles (kick, breath, etc) should one

Quoted message said:

expect from swimmer with correct technique to do 1 lap? For example, 6' swimmer should be able to
do 7 - 10 per 25 yards?

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool is
12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

And, you didn't say how fast you wanted to go. For example, are you doing a recovery day or are you
really pushing it, trying for your best time?

Pat in TX

Opps. Sorry, I meant just the length of the 25 yard pool. This is just for a non-competition
swimming. Definitely not swimming for the best time. Thanks.

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"HS" > From push off, how many breast stroke cycles (kick, breath, etc) should one

Quoted message said:

expect from swimmer with correct technique to do 1 lap? For example, 6' swimmer should be able
to do 7 - 10 per 25 yards?

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool is
12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

And, you didn't say how fast you wanted to go. For example, are you doing

a

Quoted message said:

recovery day or are you really pushing it, trying for your best time?

Pat in TX

"Pat" <[email hidden]> pondered, puzzeled, prognosticated (perhaps even premeditated), and then, in
a very wise voice, sed: :

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool is
12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

Unfortunately, Pat, there is no uniformly agreed upon definition of a "lap" in swimming, there is
only the extent of your experience.

--
chris

"Nothing is real."

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right?

Not necessarily, most coaches, competitive swimmers (elites, masters, age groupers, etc.) refer
to a "lap" as being one length of the pool. During broadcasts of many swim meets (Olympic and
others), announcers usually describe races in the number of "laps" or "lengths" using the terms
interchangeably, e.g. 4 laps (or lengths) for a 200m race in a 50m pool.

Steve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right?

Not necessarily, most coaches, competitive swimmers (elites, masters, age groupers, etc.)
refer to a "lap" as being one length of the pool. During broadcasts of many swim meets
(Olympic and others), announcers usually describe races in the number of "laps" or "lengths"
using the terms interchangeably, e.g. 4 laps (or lengths) for a 200m race in a 50m pool.

Steve

Just because they're doing it wrong doesn't mean that they are correct in this instance. A lap is a
complete circuit. I have heard football announcers calling a score a "touch." Doesn't mean that
they're right, either. If they mean length, then they should say length.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool is
12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, Pat, there is no uniformly agreed upon definition of a "lap" in swimming, there is
only the extent of your experience.

--
chris

"Nothing is real."

You are wrong when you say there is "no uniformly agreed upon definition." You can easily find this
in a dictionary. A lap is defined as starting at one point and returning to that point. My Webster's
Dictionary has this: "one complete circuit around a racetrack, in a race." Merriam Webster online
has this: "the act or an instance of traversing a course (as a racing track or swimming pool); also
: the distance covered b : one segment of a larger unit (as a journey) c : one complete turn (as of
a rope around a drum) "

Nothing wishy washy about that. A lap starts at a point and is finished when you return to that
same point.

pat in TX

HS said:

From push off, how many breast stroke cycles (kick, breath, etc) should one expect from
swimmer with correct technique to do 1 lap? For example, 6' swimmer should be able to do 7 -
10 per 25 yards?

Including the underwater pull, and at a brisk pace, I can usually do eight on the first length, then
nine coming back.

For a full 100, I get up to about 38 or 39.

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

"HS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From push off, how many breast stroke cycles (kick, breath, etc) should

one

Quoted message said:

expect from swimmer with correct technique to do 1 lap? For example, 6' swimmer should be able to
do 7 - 10 per 25 yards?

I would have suggested that 11 would be a good number to aim for at first.

--
DrClean www.DrClean.co.uk The Best Fabric Cleaning Resource on the Web

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool is
12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, Pat, there is no uniformly agreed upon definition of a "lap" in swimming, there is
only the extent of your experience.

--
chris

"Nothing is real."

You are wrong when you say there is "no uniformly agreed upon definition." You can easily find
this in a dictionary. A lap is defined as starting at one point and returning to that point.

That's technically correct, but most competitive swimmers use lap and length interchangeably. The
starter will say "...X lengths of the pool with the gun being fiored for the leader at the end of
the X-2 length." At least I think they always say length. I haven't swum a pool race for awhile.

When you start hanging out with some Masters swimmers, you'll see what I mean.

martin

(Steve Curtis) said:

Where is the "circuit" in a pool lane?

When do you "lap" someone while swimming a 1500?

When you pass the opposite direction, you are one length ahead, but not one lap ahead.

You haven't lapped him until you pass going the same direction.

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

You need to familiarize yourself with the proper definition of "circuit" in the context of a race.
Webster's defines it as follows:

Main Entry: 1cir·cuit Pronunciation: 's&r-k&t Function: noun Usage: often attributive Etymology:
Middle English, from Middle French circuite, from Latin circuitus, from circumire, circuire to go
around, from circum- + ire to go -- more at ISSUE Date: 14th century 1 a : a usually circular line
encompassing an area b : the space enclosed within such a line 2 a : a course around a periphery b :
a circuitous or indirect route......

Where is the "circuit" in a pool lane? What periphery is a lap swimmer traversing around? A
"lap" can be a path from point A to point A or from point A to point B or C or D.... Do drag
racers complete a lap or half of a lap when they race a quarter mile track? You're arguing
semantics.

Steve Curtis

Are you saying that a person swimming in a pool lane swims only in a straight line? Of course not.
That person turns at the end of the lane. You are trying to change the definition of lap from
starting and ending at the same point. It would seem to me that it is YOU who are arguing
semantics in a vain effort to change the dictionary definition to suit a desire to be sloppy in
your use of English.

Pat in TX

Donal and DrClean, thank you. That's what I was looking for. However, I'm more confused than ever
what a lap is - ha ha. Starting tomorrow, I'll measure my training in yards :-) Regards and thanks
to you all ---

"DrClean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"HS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From push off, how many breast stroke cycles (kick, breath, etc) should

one

Quoted message said:

expect from swimmer with correct technique to do 1 lap? For example, 6' swimmer should be able
to do 7 - 10 per 25 yards?

I would have suggested that 11 would be a good number to aim for at first.

--
DrClean www.DrClean.co.uk The Best Fabric Cleaning Resource on the Web

How about what you do to an ice cream cone? What's that space created when you sit? A few others.
Regardless of the original meaning of *lap* in defining a distance in a swimming pool, English is
a dynamic language and therefore all words are subject to changed meanings via usage. If 51% of
swimmers call a length a *lap* then lap it is, with the former definition relegated to a
secondary meaning.

Ruth Kazez

Steve Curtis said:

Quoted message said:

You are trying to change the definition of lap from starting and ending

at the same point.

Websters:

Main Entry: lap Function: noun Date: 1800 1 a : the amount by which one object overlaps or
projects beyond another
b : the part of an object that overlaps another
2 : a smoothing and polishing tool usually consisting of a piece of wood, leather, felt, or soft
metal in a special shape used with or without an embedded abrasive
3 : a doubling or layering of a flexible substance (as fibers or paper) 4 a : the act or an
instance of traversing a course (as a racing track or swimming pool); also : the distance
covered b : one segment of a larger unit (as a journey)

Where in the dictionary definition for "lap" does it say "starting and ending at the same
point?" It says "traversing a course" which could be a straight line, circle, rectangle,
irregular, etc. You might also look up the definition for "semantics" and apply it in the
context of your argument.

Steve Curtis

"Pat" <[email hidden]> pondered, puzzeled, prognosticated (perhaps even premeditated), and then, in
a very wise voice, sed: :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool is
12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

My reply:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, Pat, there is no uniformly agreed upon definition of a "lap" in swimming, there is
only the extent of your experience.

Pat again:

Quoted message said:

You are wrong when you say there is "no uniformly agreed upon definition."

Please read with a less re-active mind: i said, "no uniformly agreed upon definition *in*
*swimming*" i did not say you were "wrong". There is a large (perhaps a majority? i couldn't really
say) percentage of swimmers who use the term lap to mean length. There is also a percentage who use
the term lap to mean two lengths. And there are some who avoid the use of the word lap altogether
because of it's known ambiguity.

Quoted message said:

You can easily find this in a dictionary. A lap is defined as starting at one point and returning
to that point. My Webster's Dictionary has this: "one complete circuit around a racetrack, in a
race." Merriam Webster online has this: "the act or an instance of traversing a course (as a racing
track or swimming pool); also : the distance covered b : one segment of a larger unit (as a
journey) c : one complete turn (as of a rope around a drum) "

Nothing wishy washy about that. A lap starts at a point and is finished when you return to that
same point.

You are right, nothing wishy washy about it. Also not much that really says you have to return from
whence you began. One complete circuit of a racing course--in our case, a pool--begins at one wall
and ends at the far wall. When you swim the second lap of a one hundred freestyle (i'm referring to
a long course pool, obviously) you are not completing a circuit, you are RE-traversing the same
ground, albeit in a different direction.

Your feeling that a circuit must be closed (ie, start and end at a given point) would seem to me to
probably come from electronics not athletics.

But regardless, i am not coming down here to say who is "right" (i try not to view the world in a
simple strict aristotelian either/or, right/wrong, black/white false dichotomy). i simply note that
use of the term lap will be limited (or broadened) by your experience.

--
chris

"Nothing is real."

"Steve Curtis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You are trying to change the definition of lap from starting and ending

at the same point.

Websters:

Main Entry: lap Function: noun Date: 1800 1 a : the amount by which one object overlaps or projects
beyond another
b : the part of an object that overlaps another
2 : a smoothing and polishing tool usually consisting of a piece of wood, leather, felt, or soft
metal in a special shape used with or without an embedded abrasive
3 : a doubling or layering of a flexible substance (as fibers or paper) 4 a : the act or an instance
of traversing a course (as a racing track or swimming pool); also : the distance covered b : one
segment of a larger unit (as a journey)

Where in the dictionary definition for "lap" does it say "starting and ending at the same
point?" It says "traversing a course" which could be a straight line, circle, rectangle,
irregular, etc. You might also look up the definition for "semantics" and apply it in the
context of your argument.

Steve Curt

lap (RACING) noun [C] a complete journey around a race track that is repeated several times during a
competition: He recorded the fastest lap in last weekend's Hungarian Grand Prix. After a strong
start, she was passed by several runners in/on the final/last lap and finished ninth.

lap verb -pp-
3 [A] to go past someone in a race who has been round the track one less time than you: He finished
last after being lapped twice by the leading runners.

3 [B] to make one complete journey around a track

In short, it's a circuit.

I understand you want to change the dictionary definition. Go for it. But don't expect
everyone--including the people who write dictionaries to join you until and unless it actually IS
the conventional way of expressing the word. So far, it is not---or else the dictionaries would have
all agreed to change the definition, i.e., the semantics of the word. But, they haven't.

Pat

its true in the sense of "lapping someone" would mean you are 50 ahead

but in terms of specifying race lengths in laps, it gets a little more "iffy"

why not just call it a certain number of lengths/metres/yards

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You do know that a lap is 'down and back', right? So unless your pool

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

12.5 yards, your heading should read "breastroke cycle per 50 yards."

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, Pat, there is no uniformly agreed upon definition of a "lap" in swimming, there
is only the extent of your experience.

--
chris

"Nothing is real."

You are wrong when you say there is "no uniformly agreed upon definition." You can easily find
this in a dictionary. A lap is defined as starting at one point and returning to that point. My
Webster's Dictionary has this: "one complete circuit around a racetrack, in a race." Merriam
Webster online has this: "the act or an instance of traversing a course (as a racing track or
swimming pool); also : the distance covered b : one

segment

Quoted message said:

of a larger unit (as a journey) c : one complete turn (as of a rope around

a

Quoted message said:

drum) "

Nothing wishy washy about that. A lap starts at a point and is finished

when

Quoted message said:

you return to that same point.

pat in TX

Here's the thing: I'm working from the classic dictionary definition and you are arguing for
*change*. That makes the burden of proof on you.

Pat

I swam competitively from the mid-70's till the mid 80's and in the swimming vernacular, the term
"lap" and "length" are used interchangeably regardless of the true meaning of the word "lap." I know
a fellow who just graduated from college in 2001. He swam in college and told me this is still the
case today. However, it's correct that swimmers do also refer to "lapping" someone when you have
come around and caught them and therefore are 2 lengths ahead. Believe me, I was a distance swimmer,
I have been lapped and I have lapped others, neither is actually a very good feeling.

Anyway, you define terms and quote dictionaries all day and all night, but that is in fact, right or
wrong, how the terms are actually used in the community.

Another neat little bit of information is that what we call the mile is 66 laps/lengths (SCY) or
1650 yards, but a real mile is 1760 yards. Does anyone know why we don't go 70 laps to make it 1750
yard which is much closer? I don't know the answer to that, but I would love to.