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Breaking Spokes

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Cycling Equipment
Published
29 May 2004
Last activity
16 July 2004
Original author
Roger Zoul
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  1. TBGibb wrote:
    :: In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger Zoul"
    :: <[email hidden]> writes:
    ::
    ::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride up hills
    ::: in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of stress on the rear
    ::: wheel.
    ::
    :: Interesting . . . do you put less stress on the wheel at the same
    :: speed but in a lower gear (but higher cadence)?
    ::
    :: Perhaps I should say "funny."
    ::
    :: Consider a 36 spoke 4X rear wheel. If it's properly built and
    :: stress relieved you can climb in any gear you want.

    Okay....so I can replace the rear wheel and keep the same front wheel (I
    can't see why not)? That might help cashflow...

  2. Roger Zoul said:

    TBGibb wrote:
    :: In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger Zoul"
    :: <[email hidden]> writes:
    ::
    ::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride up hills
    ::: in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of stress on the rear
    ::: wheel.
    ::
    :: Interesting . . . do you put less stress on the wheel at the same
    :: speed but in a lower gear (but higher cadence)?
    ::
    :: Perhaps I should say "funny."
    ::
    :: Consider a 36 spoke 4X rear wheel. If it's properly built and
    :: stress relieved you can climb in any gear you want.

    Okay....so I can replace the rear wheel and keep the same front wheel (I
    can't see why not)? That might help cashflow...

    This is a 32 spoke wheel, but it's along the lines that you would do
    well with-

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=3680352269&rd=1

  3. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about walking home


    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite nicely till
    you can get a chance for a replacement. In the past I have ridden
    over 30 miles with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    replacement spoke and not had to mess around with retrueing.


    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

  4. "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    ::
    ::: I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a notion that they
    ::: are somehow designed for speed.
    ::
    :: Not really. They are designed to make you think of speed, the
    :: difference being only measurable with a stop watch at maximum effort.
    :: They aren't lighter nor are they pleasant to ride in winds.

    Why would they not be pleasant to ride in winds? Is there some design
    feature?.

    Deep dish rims (i.e., the height of the rim itself) are generally a pain in
    windy conditions. The deeper the rim, the more of a pain they become. All
    that extra surface area gives the wind that much more to push against. It's
    especially dangerous on the front wheel -- the wind pushing your front wheel
    around can make for some "interesting" steering.

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    RWM said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about walking home


    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite nicely till
    you can get a chance for a replacement. In the past I have ridden
    over 30 miles with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    replacement spoke and not had to mess around with retrueing.


    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

    You did? Details please.

    Because I am really lazy and have not properly respoked a problem wheel
    on my commuter, I ride home about once a month with a broken spoke
    (there seems to be a fair number of them, so without counting I'm
    guessing 36). But how do you "ruin" the rim? Did it become impossible to
    true after?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
    President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

  6. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    RWM said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 30 May 2004 10:59:04 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about walking home
    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite nicely till
    you can get a chance for a replacement. In the past I have ridden
    over 30 miles with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    replacement spoke and not had to mess around with retrueing.


    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

    You did? Details please.

    Because I am really lazy and have not properly respoked a problem wheel
    on my commuter, I ride home about once a month with a broken spoke
    (there seems to be a fair number of them, so without counting I'm
    guessing 36). But how do you "ruin" the rim? Did it become impossible to
    true after?


    Yes.

  7. Quoted message said:

    The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride up hills in

    She? That was the problem. Girls don't know bikes!

    Quoted message said:

    too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of stress on the rear wheel.

    Cranking in the lower gears puts MORE torque on the wheel, not less.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  8. Quoted message said:


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=3680352269&rd=1

    If you learn anything from that auction, learn that prenups are bad!

    "My friend signed a pre-nup and now his wife left him with nothing. He had
    an Ultegra CoMotion bike with 100-200 miles on it. I will be selling it in
    parts.. other auctions so that he has rent and money for his kids while he
    gets things back together."

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  9. ZeeExSixAre said:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=3680352269&rd=1

    If you learn anything from that auction, learn that prenups are bad!

    Must have been a [censored] prenup.

    Greg

  10. ZeeExSixAre said:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=3680352269&rd=1

    If you learn anything from that auction, learn that prenups are bad!

    This good “prenup” has been around for a while - does anyone know who
    the author is?

    PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENT FOR THE BIKER

    This agreement acknowledges that the forthcoming marriage is an
    arrangement that accepts the perpetual continuity of pre-existing
    relationship between the first two parties and that a three-way
    coexistence shall be created consisting of the following participants:
    Spouse A (the non-biking loved one) hereafter referred to as NBLO;
    Spouse B (biking loved one) hereafter referred to as BLO, and; The Bike
    (the glorious one) hereafter referred to as TB.

    Condition I: Acknowledgment NBLO shall henceforth recognize that BLO and
    TB have forged a long standing and unbreakable relationship and shall
    never attempt to permanently divide, or otherwise separate the two.

    Condition II: Cohabitation NBLO and BLO shall agree upon comfortable and
    equal living quarters for TB, its related service equipment and riding
    gear. TB shall only be exposed to the elements of nature during rides.

    All other times TB shall have access to warm, dry, low traffic living
    space. If at any time there should be conflict w/ NBLO, BLO or
    furniture, TB shall have preference as to where it stays. In NBLO’s
    absence TB shall be permitted bedroom space (if not already arranged).

    Condition III: Exclusivity and Infidelity At no time shall NBLO, BLO, or
    TB be loaned out to be ridden by anyone outside the three-way
    relationship. NBLO must request from BLO permission to ride, fondle or
    otherwise physically contact TB and only do so in the presence of BLO.

    Condition IV: Equal Time NBLO shall be guaranteed quality time
    equivalent to TB unless it conflicts with TB in which case TB gets
    preference. Service time shall be guaranteed and considered a separate
    requirement. In the event of emergency, i.e. NBLO stranded, child sets
    hair on fire etc, BLO shall complete whatever TB related activity as
    soon as possible and attend said emergency.

    In the event of an in-law visit or should for any reason, BLO become
    depressed, or otherwise in need of stress relief, BLO shall be permitted
    as much time w/TB or TB related activities, magazines, books, events etc
    as needed until such time BLO feels better.

    Condition V: Parts NBLO and BLO will agree that BLO be permitted and
    encouraged to purchase any and all TB related equipment at any and all
    times, whether they be repairs, replacements, upgrades, or just plain
    Chi-Chi.

    Any replaced parts shall be considered cherished spares and provided
    appropriate storage space equivalent to that provided for TB, preferably
    under the bed, favorite closet or on coffee table as a conversation item.
    New Items immediately installed shall require TB to be put on prominent
    display (i.e. in front of TV).

    Newly purchased items not immediately installed shall be put on display
    as a centerpiece during the day and they shall be kept under the pillow
    of BLO at bedtime, unless it is potentially dangerous to said part. This
    shall be for no less than 5 days or until they are installed whichever
    comes first.

    Condition VI: Finance All household finance shall be considered separate
    from TB finance. If conflict should arise then TB gets preference.

    Condition VII: Disposition In the event NBLO has a compatible bike BLO
    can offer spare parts to be temporarily installed for use by NBLO until
    such time BLO requires their use on TB. No prior notice is required.

    All equipment and The Bike they are installed upon or intended for,
    shall remain the property of BLO come hell or high water, and shall not
    be relinquished under any circumstance including death, in which case
    the surviving party will be obligated to complete the upgrades
    (expressed, implied or dreamed of) and bury the bike with the departed,
    unless TB or BLO requests a separate grave in which case they shall be
    buried side by side and NBLO shall not be buried between them.

    Condition VIII: Protected Communications All TB related communications
    intended for BLO, be they voice (phone messages, visitors); print
    (mail-order catalogues, etc.); or electronic (e-mail, buddies calling to
    ride, etc.) shall be forwarded and delivered to BLO as expediently as
    possible. Furthermore, no censorship of said communications shall occur,
    and NBLO agrees to refrain from making disparaging comments about the
    content of these communications and/or their source(s).

    Extended Conditions: TB shall never be the focus of an argument nor
    brought up as part of one. TB shall never be discussed w/ in-laws unless
    said discussion is in praise or defense of TB. No retaliation shall ever
    be taken against TB.

    All of the above is to be considered iron-clad and in stone and non
    negotiable, unless of course, the nonbiker says so. Bicycle
    proliferation TB must be permitted to be fruitful and multiply. After
    all, there can never be too many bicycles.

    Each and every bicycle, whether it be TB1, TB2 ... TB5 ... TB9 etc, must
    be permitted comfortable and equal living quarters as per Condition II
    above. NBLO shall not be permitted to complain about the number of TB’s
    or how much of the precious housing square-footage they consume! The
    more the merrier!

    --
    Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

  11. Roger Zoul said:

    Rick Warner wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    ::
    :: I will be even more radical. Those wheels are good for show, and for
    :: lighter riders. But they are a pain from several aspects. If it
    :: were me, I would get a good set of custom built wheels, with
    :: sufficient spokes and strength to handle you and your riding style.
    :: Actually, it was me. The Rolfs are in the storage area, and the
    :: custom made wheels (Open Pro rims, Ultegra hubs) are on the bike.

    What about this Peter White guy? He offers lifetime if you go with what he
    suggests...I want this problem to go away...

    Peter does a great job. I have a wheel in the other room he built for
    me. Works great. His warranty is dependent on you getting what he
    believes is a strong enough wheel for you and your riding style. But
    that points out one of his strengths - he talks to you, asks
    questions, and makes recommendations based on that information.

    That said, there are a lot of builders who can do the same. I have
    never had Peter Chisolm build a wheel for me, but I would bet he
    builds great wheels. Lots of others, too, just not so publically
    visible. These days I build my own, but I know a couple of local guys
    who do a great job. Pick someone with a good repuation, and talk to
    them about your problem. My only suggestion is to be skeptical of the
    shop where they try to blame your climbing technique for the problem.

    - rick

  12. On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:40:39 -0700, "RWM" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    RWM said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > On Sun, 30 May 2004 10:59:04 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about walking home
    > even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite nicely till
    > you can get a chance for a replacement. In the past I have ridden
    > over 30 miles with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    > replacement spoke and not had to mess around with retrueing.
    >
    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

    You did? Details please.

    Because I am really lazy and have not properly respoked a problem wheel
    on my commuter, I ride home about once a month with a broken spoke
    (there seems to be a fair number of them, so without counting I'm
    guessing 36). But how do you "ruin" the rim? Did it become impossible to
    true after?


    Yes.


    The rim I was using was a single wall light duty 36 spoke 32 mm wheel.
    When the spoke broke the wheel did not warp enough to even be felt in
    the brake pads. After replacing the spoke and tightening it to the
    same torque as the other spokes the small warp disappeared and the
    wheel ran true when I checked it against the brake pad.

    You may have been using a narrower lighter duty racing wheel or had a
    real mismatch of spoke tension. If one spoke breaks and it was
    holding an inordinate amount of tension you could see moderate warping
    with a 36 spoke wheel. Otherwise if all the spokes are evenly
    tensioned and make the same sound when plucked, breaking just one
    spoke does not make the bike unrideable.

  13. roger-<< If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I proceed? I
    live in
    Greenville SC. What about Peter White? He offers lifetime if you go with
    his suggestions. I like to notion of that since obviously he intends to
    back up what he does. >><BR><BR>

    Peter White is a good choice as is Andy Muzi, Sheldon Brown, the wheel guys at
    ChainReaction(Mike J) and ......me.

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  14. roger-<< Did your handbuilt wheel come with a lifetime guarantee? >><BR><BR>

    What that means is free truing for the useful life of the rim. If ya dent a
    rim, he won't fix it for free. We offer the same thing.

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  15. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    :: roger-<< Did your handbuilt wheel come with a lifetime guarantee?
    :: >><BR><BR>
    ::
    :: What that means is free truing for the useful life of the rim. If ya
    :: dent a rim, he won't fix it for free. We offer the same thing.

    Yeah, that's reasonable. If I dent a rim, I don't expect to get that fixed
    for free. However, I would like to buy a wheel from someone who at least
    thinks that I won't have more problems with spokes popping and the wheel
    getting out of true, assuming it's not the result of a crash or something
    which results in physical damage.

    Thinking back on it, I supposed that the second spoke popping could have
    been the result of the two spills I had on Saturday, but given the fact that
    the lady apparently (and I see this only because I saw lateral movement and
    she saw radial movement while spinning the wheel -- which resulted in her
    working on it some more) did not do a good job truing the wheel, I'm not so
    certain.

  16. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    :: roger-<< If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I
    :: proceed? I live in
    :: Greenville SC. What about Peter White? He offers lifetime if you
    :: go with his suggestions. I like to notion of that since obviously
    :: he intends to
    :: back up what he does. >><BR><BR>
    ::
    :: Peter White is a good choice as is Andy Muzi, Sheldon Brown, the
    :: wheel guys at ChainReaction(Mike J) and ......me.
    ::

    Great. I'm going to check local first, just because that would be easier.
    If that doesn't work, I'll be contacting someone from your list...thanks.

  17. Bob Mc B said:

    I have had lots of problems with breaking rear wheel spokes. My
    advice is to look at the Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. I replied to
    another post earlier today with my results with 36 spoke hand built
    wheels. The summary is that I have had horrible results with them
    but great results with the Ksyrium Elites. It know that this goes
    completely against the overall feelings of most of the vocal members
    of this group but the Ksyrium Elite wheel has lasted more that three
    times longer than any of the hand built wheels...and it had made
    zero trips to the LBS to get trued.

    How did you assess the abilities of these shops and their
    understanding of wheelbuilding and what causes spoke failures? Just
    pleasantly talking to a person does not reveal their ability. Certain
    questions need to be answered to discover that.

    Quoted message said:

    Before anyone says that I just got a bad builder I had the wheel
    built at three different places. Each time I spoke to the owner, or
    lead tech, to explain my situation and asked that the wheel be built
    by their best wheel builder.

    If that isn't the case, then how DID the spokes break, assuming spokes
    of equal quality were used in your preferred wheels and the failing
    ones. Your endorsement doesn't convince me, especially since I have
    been riding ordinary 36 spoke wheels with good reliability for several
    100K miles.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email hidden]

  18. Roger Zoul said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a notion that
    they are somehow designed for speed.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not really. They are designed to make you think of speed, the
    difference being only measurable with a stop watch at maximum
    effort. They aren't lighter nor are they pleasant to ride in
    winds.

    Quoted message said:

    Why would they not be pleasant to ride in winds? Is there some
    design feature?.

    If you have not ridden in strong winds you probably cannot imagine how
    they affect steering. It is like someone putting their hand on the
    end of your bars and pushing a bit one way or the other. Strong
    winds, even from behind, are turbulent and have cross components to
    the direction of travel. Of course direct cross winds are worse. The
    point is that aero wheels have far larger surfaces for the wind to
    attack than conventional wheels.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email hidden]

  19. Roger Zoul said:

    If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I proceed? I
    live in Greenville SC. What about Peter White? He offers lifetime
    if you go with his suggestions. I like to notion of that since
    obviously he intends to back up what he does.

    Build your own. If you can follow instructions, you can probably
    build abetter wheel than you can get from most bicycle shops.

    http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
    http://tinyurl.com/22lrv

    Available at many bicycle shops including ones who can't build a good
    wheel. They don't need no steenking books. They already know all
    about the subject... they think.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email hidden]

  20. Bob Mc B said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about walking home

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite nicely
    till you can get a chance for a replacement. In the past I have
    ridden over 30 miles with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub,
    screwed in a replacement spoke and not had to mess around with
    re-truing.

    Quoted message said:

    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

    You didn't say how much you weigh and what sort of terrain you
    crossed. I know of many riders who didn't bother with a broken spoke
    for more than 100 miles with no ill effects to the wheel. What was
    ruined on your rims?

    Jobst Brandt
    [email hidden]

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