Brakes for handicapped kid

Per Elmsäter said:

Now at seventeen it's time to get him a more or less fullgrown bike. At least a normal MTB frame
with 26" wheels. Probably only one gear at least up front.

If so, I would recommend an internal hub gear. You don't want a single chainring with no front
derailleur, and multiple gears in back. It's too easy to drop the chain off the chainring. A front
derailleur helps keep the chain on.

But a 7 or 8-speed rear hub has many advantages. Reliability is one, as is simplicity of use. They
can also mount either a coaster brake, or a hand-actuated hub brake, which again has usage
advantages.

Quoted message said:

Maybe put hydraulic discs on it.

Those could be too grabby for him.

Quoted message said:

Does anybody know if it would be possible to mount the brake levers in such a way that whichever
lever he pushed both wheels would be braking. Is there any type of ABS that can be fitted to each
wheel so he doesn't lock it. He can learn a new bikesetup, it just takes so much longer for him.

There are levers which will pull two cables, but getting them balanced properly, so the rear won't
skid, is nearly impossible. I don't think the abs thing exists, nor an either-lever deal. I think
that good brake levers, with either v brakes or the rear hub brake as mentioned, would be best. Take
the time for him to get used to it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or _`\(,_ | that we are to
stand by the president right or wrong, is not (_)/ (_) | only unpatriotic and servile, but is
morally treasonable to the American public. --Theodore Roosevelt

I suppose I would go with a rear coaster brake, internal gear hub, and a front V Brake for
reliability and simplicity, and use the front brake most of the time ... that's how I brake now,
thanks to Sheldon Brown (c:

However, you mentioned that this will be his main ride ... will he be riding in the rain, or
through mud puddles? If so, at least get good aftermarket brake pads, and you might want to
consider a hydraulic disk if that is the case. I don't have much experience with them so hopefully
others will chime
in.

Good luck!

i.n.A.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

I',m trying to think up what the best brake setup would be for a

handicapped

Quoted message said:

kid. My son has Downs Syndrome and at the age of 12 learned to ride a threespeed with a footbrake,
no handbrakes.

Now at seventeen it's time to get him a more or less fullgrown bike. At least a normal MTB frame
with 26" wheels. Probably only one gear at least

up

Quoted message said:

front. Maybe put hydraulic discs on it. Does anybody know if it would be possible to mount the
brake levers in such a way that whichever lever he pushed

both

Quoted message said:

wheels would be braking. Is there any type of ABS that can be fitted to

each

Quoted message said:

wheel so he doesn't lock it. He can learn a new bikesetup, it just takes

so

Quoted message said:

much longer for him.

Or should I just get him a bigger threespeed. He loves riding a bike and since he'll never be able
to get a drivers license this will kind of be

his

Quoted message said:

way of getting around. An MTB will be the best since we don't let him ride in traffic at all yet.
Lots of trails and parks to cut through with just a couple of street crossings. I just hate to see
him skidding along on that rear foot brake.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elms=E4ter said:

I',m trying to think up what the best brake setup would be for a handic=

apped

Quoted message said:

kid. My son has Downs Syndrome and at the age of 12 learned to ride a threespeed with a footbrake,
no handbrakes.
=20
Now at seventeen it's time to get him a more or less fullgrown bike. At=

Quoted message said:

least a normal MTB frame with 26" wheels. Probably only one gear at lea=

st up

Quoted message said:

front. Maybe put hydraulic discs on it.=20

I'm guessing that he won't be riding in rainy conditions...if I'm right, =

this would be a waste of money. Modern "V-type" brakes require very=20 little hand strength to
operate, especially if you upgrade to Kool-Stop=20 salmon brake shoes. I weigh 230, have weak hands,
but can always stop=20 as fast as I want using two fingers at most...more often, just one.

Quoted message said:

Does anybody know if it would be possible to mount the brake levers in such a way that whichever
lever he pushed =

both

Quoted message said:

wheels would be braking.=20

This is theoretically possible, but it is generally a bad idea to apply=20 both brakes at the
same time.

See: sheldobnrown.combrakturn.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Is there any type of ABS that can be fitted to each wheel so he doesn't lock it. He can learn a
new bikesetup, it just take=

s so

Quoted message said:

much longer for him.

Many "comfort" bikes and "hybrids" come with a "Power Modulator" on the=20 front brake for exactly
this purpose. Generally, I'm agin these, but in =

your son's case it might be worthwhile.

Quoted message said:

=20
Or should I just get him a bigger threespeed.

Depends on the terrain. Lately there has been a move toward singlespeed =

MTBs with excellent hand brakes.

These generally are geared too low for street use, but that might not be =

such a bad thing in your son's case.

Sheldon "One Brake At A Time" Brown +-----------------------------------------------+
| I don't need instructions, I have a hammer. | -- T.W. Wier |
+-----------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Per Elmsäter said:

Hi

I',m trying to think up what the best brake setup would be for a handicapped kid. My son has Downs
Syndrome and at the age of 12 learned to ride a threespeed with a footbrake, no handbrakes.

Now at seventeen it's time to get him a more or less fullgrown bike. At least a normal MTB frame
with 26" wheels. Probably only one gear at least up front. Maybe put hydraulic discs on it. Does
anybody know if it would be possible to mount the brake levers in such a way that whichever lever
he pushed both wheels would be braking. Is there any type of ABS that can be fitted to each wheel
so he doesn't lock it. He can learn a new bikesetup, it just takes so much longer for him.

It would not take much custom engineering to make one brake lever drive both brakes. Probably a
simple Y junction in the brake pipe would do; my only hesitation is that you might conceivably need
a bigger piston in the master cylinder, since the volume of fluid that needs to be moved to operate
two brakes is greater than that needed for one, and the available hand levers are designed to move
enough fluid for just one. It's possible that a lever designed for a four piston caliper would be OK
with two two-piston calipers from the same maker - it would certainly be worth trying (and would not
be absurdly expensive to try).

Anti-lock would be a *lot* more complex. Car systems measure the rotating speed of the axle and
modulate the pressure in the brake circuit to prevent it locking. That's a complex system with a lot
of components - sensor, controller, actuator, all needing power. You could not trivially adapt that
to work on a bicycle with today's technology, I think.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

do not sail on uphill water
- Bill Lee

Sheldon Brown said:

Quoted message said:

Per Elmsäter wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm guessing that he won't be riding in rainy conditions...if I'm right, this would be a waste of
money. Modern "V-type" brakes require very little hand strength to operate, especially if you
upgrade to Kool-Stop salmon brake shoes. I weigh 230, have weak hands, but can always stop as fast
as I want using two fingers at most...more often, just one.

I think he may be riding in all conditions including all winter in Sweden. One of the main
reasons I look into hydraulic discs is due to the fine modulation. Mostly maybe because I love
the ones I have.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anybody know if it would be possible to mount the brake levers in such a way that whichever
lever he pushed both wheels would be braking.

This is theoretically possible, but it is generally a bad idea to apply both brakes at the
same time.

See: sheldobnrown.combrakturn.htmlOpen ↗

Well once I realized you can't spell your own name I made it into your link 😉 You didn't have me
convinced until I got to the point about lifting the rear wheel off the ground. You say Quote
"Maximum braking occurs when the front brake is applied so hard that the rear wheel is just about to
lift off. When this happens, the slightest amount of rear brake will cause the rear wheel to skid."

I guess this is where the normal person can learn to let off and a mentally handicapped person may
need too long to learn how to use properly. ABS would be nice. Maybe I could invent it. OR Just
leave his coaster brake and put a good brake up front. Once I see he starts to use it right I can
remove the coaster brake and put something else there. Does Rohloff hubs come with coaster brakes?
I've seen that they come with discs.

--
Perre BTW. Thanks for talking me into staying with the LOW NORMAL on my new XTR dual lever shifters.

David L. Johnson said:

There are levers which will pull two cables, but getting them balanced properly, so the rear won't
skid, is nearly impossible. I don't think the abs thing exists, nor an either-lever deal. I think
that good brake levers, with either v brakes or the rear hub brake as mentioned, would be best.
Take the time for him to get used to it.

I agree hub gears would be a good option.

The Nexus roller brake is quite gentle and not excessively strong. I find it hard to lock this brake
deliberately let alone accidentally so it might be feasible to hook this up to a single brake lever
pulling both brakes without much risk.

~PB

Per Elmsäter said:

Does Rohloff hubs come with coaster brakes? I've seen that they come with discs.

Shimano nexus has either a disk or roller brake. Plus, they cost much less than Rohloff.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. -- _`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

Per Elmsäter' may have said:

Is there any type of ABS that can be fitted to each wheel so he doesn't lock it.

ABS requires a power source and smart circuitry tuned to the application. Sorry, even in the medical
vehicle field, I haven't heard of such a system that would have any hope of being useful.

Quoted message said:

Or should I just get him a bigger threespeed. He loves riding a bike and since he'll never be able
to get a drivers license this will kind of be his way of getting around. An MTB will be the best
since we don't let him ride in traffic at all yet. Lots of trails and parks to cut through with
just a couple of street crossings. I just hate to see him skidding along on that rear foot brake.

If you're serious about trying to get a brake system setup that works well and safely, from what I
can see, the choices boil down to what Sheldon Brown already suggested (just use a handbrake on the
front) or the hand-built system I saw on a bike that was being ridden by someone who had only one
hand. It combined two v-brakes, one front and one rear, on one lever, using a compression spring on
the cable between the rear brake arms to reduce the rear brake's effectiveness by increasing its
effort, with the front and rear cables connected to the lever using a bridge system similar to the
ones used on center-pull brakes. As the lever moved, the front pads came into contact first, and
then when they were pretty well applied, the rears contacted and built pressure. The front and rear
brakes were actually on a single cable that crossed a pulley which was yoked to the cable from the
brake lever.

In my opinion, your best bet is to try just a front brake first, and if it works acceptably, stay
with it. The simplest solutions are usually the best.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Per Elmsäter said:

Is there any type of ABS that can be fitted to each wheel so he doesn't lock it.

It seems to me that the simplest type of "ABS" for the front is simply a _weak_ front brake! That
is: he's presently getting by with only a rear brake. _Any_ braking on the front will be an
improvement. You could give him one that is too weak to cause pitchover.

Shimano's force limiter is a possibility, of course, but standard cantilevers with a super-long
straddle cable might do as well or better, by reducing the mechanical advantage. Sheldon's article
on cantilever setup explains the principles.

However, for winter riding, there's not much you can do. If there's any brake at all on the front
wheel, it can cause a front wheel skid & a fall on snow or ice. Unless you salvage the ABS system
off a BMW motorcycle, I suppose you'll have to put up with that.

--
Frank Krygowski

Per Elmsäter said:

Or should I just get him a bigger threespeed. He loves riding a bike and since he'll never be able
to get a drivers license this will kind of be his way of getting around. An MTB will be the best
since we don't let him ride in traffic at all yet. Lots of trails and parks to cut through with
just a couple of street crossings. I just hate to see him skidding along on that rear foot brake.

You can combine regular, rim-mounted hand-activated brakes while still having the coaster brake on
the rear, for a trasnsitional period. Lord knows when I switched from coaster to handbrakes it took
me a year or two to get used to using them in emergency, reflex situations. For a long time, if I
needed to brake urgently I'd pedal backwards first and then figure out I needed the levers.
Dangerous is the word.

Jasper

Quoted message said:

If you're serious about trying to get a brake system setup that works well and safely, from what I
can see, the choices boil down to what Sheldon Brown already suggested (just use a handbrake on
the front) or

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that there are manufacturers that make dual levers (i.e.
levers that pull two cables). I believe that they are also possible to setup with different speed of
pull of cable, so the rear would pull less quickly than the front.

You might have to be judicious with the brake pad setup, but I'm sure you can figure that one out.

I can't remember however where I read about this and who makes them, but maybe google will serve
something up for you.

Regards,

John