Brakes

in message <[email hidden]>, Chris Davies

(') said:

Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results
did you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I
reckon I deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one
fitted - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a
set they want to part with?

V brakes are no less pain in the [censored] to set up - they are, after all,
just a slight variant on cantilevers.

Quoted message said:

Also, what would you recommend for brakes?

Cane Creek Direct Curve - either DC2 or DC5. The advantage is no noodle.
Noodles are not merely a maintenance problem, they can allegedly[1] jump
out on rough sections and then you have no brakes.
<URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/02_dc2.html>
<URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/01_dc5.htm>

Quoted message said:

My only consideration is
that I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why
mountain bikes use them but tourers don't?

Fashion. The mountain bike market is much more fashion conscious than
the tourer market.

[1] by which I mean, I know people who say it has happened to them, but
I have not seen it myself.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; how did we conclude that a [censored] cartoon mouse is deserving
;; of 90+ years of protection, but a cure for cancer, only 14?
-- user 'Tackhead', in /. discussion of copyright law, 22/05/02

Chris Davies said:

Also, what would you recommend for brakes?

My tourer has a Weinman centre pull on the rear and an Accor dual pivot on
the front. Not necessarily a recommendation but good enough for touring. I
have just done 600 loaded miles with this bike, descended The Lecht at 50mph
and never had an incident when I wished the brakes had been more effective.
IMHO folks worry far too much about brakes on tourers.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Chris Davies

(') said:

Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results
did you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I
reckon I deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one
fitted - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a
set they want to part with?

V brakes are no less pain in the [censored] to set up - they are, after all,
just a slight variant on cantilevers.

Quoted message said:

Also, what would you recommend for brakes?

Cane Creek Direct Curve - either DC2 or DC5. The advantage is no noodle.
Noodles are not merely a maintenance problem, they can allegedly[1] jump
out on rough sections and then you have no brakes.
<URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/02_dc2.html>
<URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/01_dc5.htm>

Quoted message said:

My only consideration is
that I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why
mountain bikes use them but tourers don't?

Fashion. The mountain bike market is much more fashion conscious than
the tourer market.

[1] by which I mean, I know people who say it has happened to them, but
I have not seen it myself.

I disagree - they're far, far easier to setup than cantilevers with
plain studs, and the geometry is fixed so they're also easier than
cantis with threded studs.

The only problem I can think of (besides the need for 287V levers) is
mudguard clearance on some bikes. This was the main reason tourers had
cantis in the first place, not really for extra stopping power - a
sidepull can be just as powerful if it's designed with the same
mechanical advantage (e.g. dual pivot brakes).

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My only consideration is
that I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why
mountain bikes use them but tourers don't?

Fashion. The mountain bike market is much more fashion conscious than
the tourer market.

Nope. It's cable pull.

Normal/STI/Ergo drop bar levers don't pull enough cable for V brakes. Two
solutions : dia-compe 287V levers (which do pull enough but you can't use
STI/Ergo), or a travel adapter of some kind (pulley with two radii). Or
stick with cantis.

cheers,
clive

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:411e5329.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke wrote:
V brakes are no less pain in the [censored] to set up - they are, after all,
just a slight variant on cantilevers.

Quoted message said:

I disagree - they're far, far easier to setup than cantilevers with
plain studs, and the geometry is fixed so they're also easier than
cantis with threded studs.

I disagree too.
My Avid vees were easier to set up than cantis IMO: Unhook the noddle and
springs, fit new pads but leave loose, then push the arm/pad up to the rim,
with a bit of card twixt pad and rim to set the toe-in, the pad finds its
own position and can then be tightened. Easy!

Pete.

Chris Davies pibbled:

Quoted message said:

Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results did
you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I reckon I
deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one fitted
- does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a set they
want to part with?

Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that I
don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
bikes use them but tourers don't?

Thanks for your help.

Chris

Hey Chris - Fix that sig!!

Anyhow, V brakes are if anything /harder/ to set up than cantilevers. Disc
brakes are a toy unless hydraulics are involved. I used to own a cable-disc
motorcycle, and cantilevers on the rim would been a boon! The only proper
professional riders in this country have drum brakes, why aren't they
commonly available?

"Triffid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyhow, V brakes are if anything /harder/ to set up than cantilevers.

Disc

Quoted message said:

brakes are a toy unless hydraulics are involved. I used to own a

cable-disc

Quoted message said:

motorcycle, and cantilevers on the rim would been a boon!

Avid mechanicals are getting a good reputation among tandem riders, which
seems a pretty good recommendation for me.

Quoted message said:

The only proper professional riders in this country have drum brakes,
why aren't they commonly available?

?? (couriers?)

cheers,
clive

(_hates_ setting up cantis. likes maguras)

Chris Davies said:

Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort
of results did you get?

I used to run V-brakes with 287V levers on a Raleigh Randonneur, and I was
generally very happy with the results.

As for the levers themselves, all the steel parts rusted very quickly. I
replaced the plated clamps with stainless ones from an old pair of Shimano
levers.

Someone has a pair for sale on the Cycling+ forum:

http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34787

James Thomson

Chris Davies [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results did
you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I reckon I
deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one fitted
- does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a set they
want to part with?

Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that I
don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
bikes use them but tourers don't?

If you go for Vs, I would recommend stearing clear of the Tektro ones.
Normally I like Tektro, but their Vs squeak for no obvious reason and
don't seem to provide the stopping power of the (almost) equally cheap
Sh*mano Deore ones I've just put on the back!

Jon

Chris Davies said:

Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike?

Dawes, amongst others! (the Sardar has Vs as standard).

Quoted message said:

did you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I
reckon I deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.

Vs can be a PITA as well. Well set up, performance shouldn't be that
much different, poorly set up either can suck horrible. The primary
advantage of Vs is that they're more widespread so it's easier to find
new blocks, levers etc.

Quoted message said:

Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that
I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
bikes use them but tourers don't?

Tourers use cantis because it's a deeply traditional market and tourers
have had cantis for moons now. Occasionally someone makes something
really raj like the Sardar which not only has Vs but it doesn't have
700c wheels. And it isn't dark green! This is the stuff of serious
change in the touring world... ;-)

If you want really top line brakes put on Magura hydraulic rim brakes.
They give more power, easier modulation and there's nothing much to
fiddle with as the pads move directly in and out rather than rotating in
on levers. You can set the clearance with a wheel on the lever housing
as they wear, and when that bottoms out you change the pad. Initial set
up is said to be fiddly, so I had mine done by someone else, but I've no
regrets about having them put on. Easily the best rim brakes I've ever
used.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tourers use cantis because it's a deeply traditional market and tourers
have had cantis for moons now.

Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Clive George said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a travel
adapter.

Mini-vees can be used with STI levers.

Colin

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a travel
adapter. The sardar has 287-V levers.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a travel
adapter. The sardar has 287-V levers.

Just found out the STI version of the Sardar (no longer available) had
Cantis. I thought they all had Vs, so wrong there.

OTOH, V's have been around longer than Galaxies and Horizons have had
STI fitted as standard. The tourer market really is /very/
conservative, to the extent that having 26" wheels is still widely held
to be remarkable (even though it actually makes a great deal of sense).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George wrote:

> Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar

levers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a

travel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

adapter.

Mini-vees can be used with STI levers.

And _how_ much mudguard/tyre clearance do they have? :-)

cheers,
clive

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a

travel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

adapter. The sardar has 287-V levers.

Just found out the STI version of the Sardar (no longer available) had
Cantis. I thought they all had Vs, so wrong there.

OTOH, V's have been around longer than Galaxies and Horizons have had
STI fitted as standard.

OTOOH, 287-V levers haven't been around as long as V brakes. OTOOOH they've
been around long enough. Of course it could be just a price thing - 287-Vs
aren't that cheap.

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

OTOOH, 287-V levers haven't been around as long as V brakes. OTOOOH they've
been around long enough. Of course it could be just a price thing - 287-Vs
aren't that cheap.

Though OTO.... foot, the Sardar is cheaper than the Galaxy and its more
upmarket stablemates.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:58:33 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

OTOOH, 287-V levers haven't been around as long as V brakes. OTOOOH
they've
been around long enough. Of course it could be just a price thing -
287-Vs
aren't that cheap.

Though OTO.... foot, the Sardar is cheaper than the Galaxy and its more
upmarket stablemates.

Pete.

It's also made of 631 tubing, the replacement for 531. I believe 531 is
now obsolete.
Do you think there's an economy in that they can use more mountain bike
componentry?
Also, is it tig welded or lugged? This will make a difference to price.
It seems like a very good bike for the money, although I've never been on
one and suspect you could recycle some old mountain bikes into something
very similar for much less money.

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