Brake upgrade

doki said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers. They're not
what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all, but there's very
obvious flex in them and the stopping power is rather underwhelming. What
can I replace them with, without going to the expense / bother of new levers
and bar tape?

Front rim is steel, which I'm looking to change for an alloy one, rear is
already alloy.

Replacing the front steel with an alloy will do a lot of the job you
want to do on the braking, I'd think. Weinmans may be plop compared to
many modern alternatives but they do work to an acceptable degree if you
give them good pads and an alloy rim to work against, and I know this as
my old tourer had them and was brought to a stop successfully down big
hills with full camping luggage on board.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

doki said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers. They're not
what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all, but there's very
obvious flex in them and the stopping power is rather underwhelming. What
can I replace them with, without going to the expense / bother of new levers
and bar tape?

Front rim is steel, which I'm looking to change for an alloy one, rear is
already alloy.

What is the wheel size and what is the drop of the brakes (distance from
the mounting bolt to the centre of the rim) ?

The best improvement would be an alloy rim (although that might be
difficult if its a 27" wheel) and Koolstop Salmon brake pads. If it is
a 27" wheel you might like to go to a 700C one before you buy new brake
calipers as you will need a longer drop.

Unless the drop is the standard the choice of brake calipers is limited.
I would go for:
39-49mm drop: Standard Shimano/Campag dual pivots
47-59mm drop: Shimano deep drop dual pivots
51-69mm drop: Alhonga dual pivot (available from St John St Cycles)

all with Salmon pads.

--
Tony

"Don't argue the matter, the difficulties will argue for themselves"
-W.S. Churchill

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers. They're

not

Quoted message said:

what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all, but there's very
obvious flex in them and the stopping power is rather underwhelming. What
can I replace them with, without going to the expense / bother of new

levers

Quoted message said:

and bar tape?

Front rim is steel, which I'm looking to change for an alloy one, rear is
already alloy.

I have a pair of Cannondale branded dual pivot calipers you can have for
nowt <1> if you want them, e-mail me direct.
It's worth checking that your levers are suitable for them, I don't have a
clue.
There is nothing wrong with their performance, which is probably way
superior to the Weinmanns, but the fasteners are a little tatty
cosmetically which is why I replaced them with Shimano ones that I got for
a decent price.
I also have an Open4CD (sort of brownish dark grey colour) on a Chorus hub
front wheel going begging if you are local to the East Midlands (I can't be
arsed to pack it but you can collect).
<1> You can make a charitable donation if you don't wish to feel obligated.

--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

Peter Clinch said:

doki said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers.
They're not what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all,
but there's very obvious flex in them and the stopping power is
rather underwhelming. What can I replace them with, without going to
the expense / bother of new levers and bar tape?

Front rim is steel, which I'm looking to change for an alloy one,
rear is already alloy.

Replacing the front steel with an alloy will do a lot of the job you
want to do on the braking, I'd think. Weinmans may be plop compared
to many modern alternatives but they do work to an acceptable degree
if you give them good pads and an alloy rim to work against, and I
know this as my old tourer had them and was brought to a stop
successfully down big hills with full camping luggage on board.

They feel a tad mortifying at the moment. Particularly braking when you're
not down on the drops. More used to V brake type stopping power.

doki said:

Peter Clinch wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Replacing the front steel with an alloy will do a lot of the job you
want to do on the braking, I'd think. Weinmans may be plop compared
to many modern alternatives but they do work to an acceptable degree
if you give them good pads and an alloy rim to work against, and I
know this as my old tourer had them and was brought to a stop
successfully down big hills with full camping luggage on board.

Quoted message said:

They feel a tad mortifying at the moment. Particularly braking when you're
not down on the drops. More used to V brake type stopping power.

Note that the tourer in the above example did have alloy wheels back and
front. And of course the front brake is where you get most of the
useful work from, or at least you do if it isn't against a steel rim!

It probably won't hurt to check the cables aren't a nice shade of rusty
orange inside the housings and replace them if they are, as well.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a pair of Cannondale branded dual pivot calipers you can have for
nowt <1> if you want them, e-mail me direct.

After reading Tony Ravens post I realise they may not be suitable:
"39-49mm drop: Standard Shimano/Campag dual pivots" is what they are.

However, my offer still stands if they are suitable.

--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

Peter B said:

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers.
They're not what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all,
but there's very obvious flex in them and the stopping power is
rather underwhelming. What can I replace them with, without going to
the expense / bother of new levers and bar tape?

Front rim is steel, which I'm looking to change for an alloy one,
rear is already alloy.

I have a pair of Cannondale branded dual pivot calipers you can have
for nowt <1> if you want them, e-mail me direct.
It's worth checking that your levers are suitable for them, I don't
have a clue.
There is nothing wrong with their performance, which is probably way
superior to the Weinmanns, but the fasteners are a little tatty
cosmetically which is why I replaced them with Shimano ones that I
got for a decent price.
I also have an Open4CD (sort of brownish dark grey colour) on a
Chorus hub front wheel going begging if you are local to the East
Midlands (I can't be arsed to pack it but you can collect).
<1> You can make a charitable donation if you don't wish to feel
obligated.

The East midlands is a fairly large place. I'm up between Nottingham and
Sheffield. I'll be able to pick up some bits and bobs as soon as my car's
back on the road.

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The East midlands is a fairly large place. I'm up between Nottingham and
Sheffield. I'll be able to pick up some bits and bobs as soon as my car's
back on the road.

South side of Leicester to be precise, a couple of miles from M1 J21 on what
passes for a ring road .
If you are seriously interested in the wheel and prepared to collect let me
know, the garage roof space is filling up :-)

--
Pete
http:[email hidden]/P

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter B said:

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Next week maybe? There's someone I could do with seeing down that way.

Yup, Monday to Thurs I'm usually home by 17:00, Friday PM on me bike.

Pete

Peter B said:

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The East midlands is a fairly large place. I'm up between Nottingham
and Sheffield. I'll be able to pick up some bits and bobs as soon as
my car's back on the road.

South side of Leicester to be precise, a couple of miles from M1 J21
on what passes for a ring road .
If you are seriously interested in the wheel and prepared to collect
let me know, the garage roof space is filling up :-)

Next week maybe? There's someone I could do with seeing down that way.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:28:08 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Replacing the front steel with an alloy will do a lot of the job you
want to do on the braking, I'd think. Weinmans may be plop compared to
many modern alternatives but they do work to an acceptable degree if you
give them good pads and an alloy rim to work against

Wot Pete said. Change the rim, fettle the brakes up and fit Kool-Stop
salmon pads, see if that works. If not, chuck on a dual-pivot caliper
on the front, but I reckon the rim and pads will do it.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Peter B said:

Quoted message said:

I have a pair of Cannondale branded dual pivot calipers you can have
for nowt <1> if you want them, e-mail me direct.

After reading Tony Ravens post I realise they may not be suitable:
"39-49mm drop: Standard Shimano/Campag dual pivots" is what they
are.

It'll be worth a try. I just about got a *front* short-drop Campag DP
working on my 80s Raleigh Royal (with a Weinmann lever). Braking was much
improved compared to the original Weinmann centre-pull. Can't remember
whether that was with 27" or 700c wheel but the caliper slots might need
filing in any case to lower the pads sufficiently.

Now upgraded to Alhonga deep drop DPs as they have decent clearance for
mudguards. There's more to that than drop. Shimano long-reach brakes may
be cheaper--new or second-hand.

Your LBS may have a cheapo alloy wheel, Doki. Brake pads will need
lowering by 4mm if converting from 27" to 700c. It'll be worth changing
the lever as well. I know what you mean about the hassle but modern
levers are sooo much better (stop better & are more comfortable to hold).

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, doki

(') said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers.
They're not what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all,
but there's very obvious flex in them and the stopping power is rather
underwhelming. What can I replace them with, without going to the
expense / bother of new levers and bar tape?

I replaced mine (on a Record Sprint) with new Campagnolo Centaur
calipers. I didn't replace the levers or tape, which is still original.
You would not believe the difference in braking performance! Strongly
recommended. But actually any modern dual pivot caliper would work, and
you would not have to replace the levers or tape.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; may contain traces of nuts, bolts or washers.

in message <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,

you know? (') said:

On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:28:08 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Replacing the front steel with an alloy will do a lot of the job you
want to do on the braking, I'd think. Weinmans may be plop compared
to many modern alternatives but they do work to an acceptable degree
if you give them good pads and an alloy rim to work against

Wot Pete said. Change the rim, fettle the brakes up and fit Kool-Stop
salmon pads, see if that works. If not, chuck on a dual-pivot caliper
on the front, but I reckon the rim and pads will do it.

Speaking as someone who used to ride with well maintained Weinmanns
until last summer, chuck 'em in the bin /now/. They will never be
better than moderately [censored]. Yes, new cables and pads /will/ improve
things. Marginally. A new dual pivot caliper - on the front, anyway -
will improve things greatly.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:15:00 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Speaking as someone who used to ride with well maintained Weinmanns
until last summer, chuck 'em in the bin /now/.

I used them for a long time. Dual-pivots are better, of course, but
the price of a new set of pads is low...

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:15:00 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Speaking as someone who used to ride with well maintained Weinmanns
until last summer, chuck 'em in the bin /now/.

I used them for a long time. Dual-pivots are better, of course, but
the price of a new set of pads is low...

So did I, on my old Raleigh Royale, and my vote goes with Simon.
Changing those old Weinmanns for a pair of Shimano DP brakes was money
well spent. Only if there were very pressing reasons to use the money on
other things would I change my mind.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

"doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I've got a Raleigh Banana, with old Weinmann brakes and levers. They're
not
what you'd call fantastic. I've not fettled them at all, but there's very
obvious flex in them and the stopping power is rather underwhelming. What
can I replace them with, without going to the expense / bother of new
levers
and bar tape?

Front rim is steel, which I'm looking to change for an alloy one, rear is
already alloy.

Yes, I can vouch for Weinmann sidepulls being rubbish even with alloy rim &
Koolstops [*]. But if they are centre pull they should work adequately.

[*] The brake force provided at each wheel is about 45lbf. So both together
just meet the MoT 50% efficiency requirement for a car. A V brake can
produce over 150lbf.

One problem with changing calipers is that modern ones have an allen head
fastener rather than a hex nut. They are not compatible without a bit of
surgery on the fork

DavidR said:

Yes, I can vouch for Weinmann sidepulls being rubbish even with alloy
rim & Koolstops [*]. But if they are centre pull they should work
adequately.

....but still not as well as dual pivots.

Quoted message said:

One problem with changing calipers is that modern ones have an allen
head fastener rather than a hex nut. They are not compatible without
a bit of surgery on the fork

Minor surgery, though: enlarge hole with drill. Also look up "Recessed"
in the Sheldon Brown Glossary for alternative ideas.

Alhonga DPs are nutted.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <p@honeydewbiggs{remove_melon}.tc> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DavidR said:

Yes, I can vouch for Weinmann sidepulls being rubbish even with alloy
rim & Koolstops [*]. But if they are centre pull they should work
adequately.

...but still not as well as dual pivots.

Quoted message said:

One problem with changing calipers is that modern ones have an allen
head fastener rather than a hex nut. They are not compatible without
a bit of surgery on the fork

Minor surgery, though: enlarge hole with drill. Also look up "Recessed"
in the Sheldon Brown Glossary for alternative ideas.

Alhonga DPs are nutted.

And St Johns Street Cycles sell nutted Shimano deep drop calipers....for
GBP50.

tony R.