Boycott Memory-Map - their policies stink!

* Jim Willsher <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Advice from a Memory-Map Navigator user - DON'T BUY IT! Buy Anquet, or something else that's
available. But don't buy anything from a company as arrogant as Memory-Map.

Thanks for giving us the benefit of your (bitter) experience. I'm thinking of getting digital maps -
I'll take your tip!

Regards: Jim Ford

In a recent message <[email hidden]>, Jim Willsher
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

All in all, Mmeory-Map has become a white elephant. It does the job at the time, but you have no
upgrade path unless you spend heaps of money, and if the software has bugs in it then it's just
tough luck.

Advice from a Memory-Map Navigator user - DON'T BUY IT! Buy Anquet, or something else that's
available. But don't buy anything from a company as arrogant as Memory-Map.

</SOAPBOX>

[...]

Thanks for the warning, they sound like a crummy, tenth-rate bunch. I'll be looking for some digital
OS maps before too long and at least I'll know who *not* to deal with.

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England <[email hidden]

Jim Willsher said:

- 3D views of a map. Probably very clever, but sod all use in the real world.

Actually I could find that extremely useful for planning photo viewpoints, and was getting very
interested in their new software for that very reason.

But what you've said is worrying. Are Anquet planning to do any 3D updates with 25k mapping? I may
have to go for MM if there's no other alternative. I've wanted 3D software like this for years.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Just got my copy of the super scale Lakes Anquet map yesterday and I have to report that it's
very good. Just messed about with it today and done several screen grabs and 'stitched' them
together, loaded the result into Oziexplorer, calibrated it and have a map I can use for
anything. Gone the last bit and converted map to ozf format and transferred to OziExplorer CE
running on my Ipaq pocketpc.

All rather easier then scanning paper maps and 'stitching' or downloading from S_____M______.co.uk
and 'stitching'.

Can't comment on Memory Maps but they don't seem to have a 1:25000 of the Lakes yet and I wanted
something quickly.

Oh yes Ozi does work with ActiveSync 3.7.1.

Mike Mason

"Jim Willsher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi folks,

<SOAPBOX>

Long time user of Memory-Map software here, who has just reached the end

of

Quoted message said:

his tether. Let me explain. Please bear with me - this posting is long,

but

Quoted message said:

is (hopefully) worth reading, especially if you are considering buying Memory-Map or Anquet.

Memory-Map software is not cheap (circa £130 for the "Northern Region" maps). At the time I bought
MM, Anquet was not available, so it was the only choice available to me for digital 1:50,000 maps.
I'm also a PocketPC user.

Over the last year or so, Anquet software has come on leaps and bounds, whereas Memory-Map has
stayed still. I have sent several emails to MM suggesting enhancements (even basic things like a
"Goto Grid Reference" facility, and even hotkeys for useful functions, like Ctrl-F for Find). Most
of my emails were either ignored, or were acknowledged with an arrogant "We're the best, and
anyway, why would you want that feature?" reponse.

In the middle of October I upgraded to the latest version of the PocketPC syncronisation software,
ActiveSync 3.7.1. And then....Memory-Map stopped working. At first I didn't make the connection,
so I emailed MM techincal support. The reply from Simon Jenkins (Technical and Sales Support) was
as follows:

"...Have you recently installed Microsoft ActiveSync 3.7.1? We have just been made aware that this
newly released version of ActiveSync is causing problems with Memory-Map, causing it to hang on
the splash screen where

the

Quoted message said:

Memory-Map logo is displayed. Reverting back to Active Sync 3.7 will cure the problem until we can
address the issue...."

(Pay special attention to the last 6 words).

Last week, a new version of Memory-Map was released. It contains a couple of new features, but
nothing really worth having. But it fixes the ActiveSync incompatibilty issue. However, as the new
MM software uses the latest OS maps, it is not compatible with the earlier maps, i.e. the maps

I

Quoted message said:

have. But of course, MM will apply the same fix to the version of MM that

I

Quoted message said:

have, won't they? After all, they were going to "address the issue", and clearly it's a problem
with their own software. Reply received on Friday:

"...I'm afraid we do not have any plans to release any further updates or patches for v3.1.6.
Unfortunately, the free upgrade now available on the website is only compatible with 2004 OS maps,
and will not permit the use of previous year's OS maps. This presents you with two choices:

1) Uninstall ActiveSync 3.7.1.

2) Purchase the OS 2004 map upgrades. By updating your maps you can update your software which
will fix this issue...."

Morons! So, I can spend £90 (upgrade price) to get a bug fixed? They are touting lots of new
functionality in the new version. But if you live in Scotland like I do, it's of no use:

- Latest maps: No new mapping has been done on Scotland in the last year

of

Quoted message said:

any significance
- Aerial photography: No use in Scotland as there isn't any aerial photography outside the main
central-belt cities.
- Side-by-side display of two scales of map or a map and aeriel photography: Same applies!
- 3D views of a map. Probably very clever, but sod all use in the real world.
- No other new functionality is stated.

All in all, Mmeory-Map has become a white elephant. It does the job at the time, but you have no
upgrade path unless you spend heaps of money, and if the software has bugs in it then it's just
tough luck.

Advice from a Memory-Map Navigator user - DON'T BUY IT! Buy Anquet, or something else that's
available. But don't buy anything from a company as arrogant as Memory-Map.

</SOAPBOX>

Jim Willsher

Jim Willsher

Homepages at jimwillsher.co.ukjimwillsher.co.ukOpen ↗

RJ Webb <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do you go into you local gear shop and steal a new gortex jacket every time the manufacturer
brings out a new design?

No... I buy last years model at a decent price in a sale.....

Who cares about the colour.....

Richard Webb

About 2/3 of this newsgroup.

It must not be red or yellow, in fact it should be as drab as possible. 8-)
--
Gordon

Chris Game writes

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

You might consider Oziexplorer which has much more functionality than either Anquet or Memory
Map, particularly if you are a GPS user. This comes with no maps, but you create your own from
any digital source, such as scanned paper maps (or screen grabs).

Does that talk to ActiveSync 3.7.1? The OP didn't mention GPS, he just wants to download maps to
his Pocket PC.

I don't think OziExplorer can handle Memory-map files, but I did find the following in the OziE
Yahoo Groups archive. (Btw The OziUsers-L group is on the big side, but does have some great info.
Otherwise just search its archives.)

groups.yahoo.com14849Open ↗

By a strange coincidence I was talking to someone today about MM. He has also had bad experiences
trying to deal with their support people, calling them aggressive and arrogant. I think the name he
mentioned was Andrew something. Does that ring any bells?

--
Trevor Dennis Remove s-p-a-m to email

In a recent message <[email hidden]>, Roger Chapman
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

One of the many things I hold against the OS is the way in which they like to operate on the steep
section of the supply/demand curve squeezing the public for as much as they can get for as little
as possible produced.

[...]

I think that's what they call 'marketing', isn't it? <g>. Seriously though, I should think the OS
would be perfectly happy to sell some of their high-end digital products cheap to the likes of you
and me if they could find some way of doing this whilst at the same time making sure that the
customers who are currently paying lots for these products would continue to pay lots.

To change the subject slightly, aren't most of the costs of mapping up-front at the surveying stage?
These will have written-off years ago, in the main, so we ought to expect cheaper maps, especially
when these are in digital form, with no printing and distribution involved. Just a thought.

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England <[email hidden]

In a recent message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To change the subject slightly, aren't most of the costs of mapping up-front at the surveying
stage? These will have written-off years ago, in the main, so we ought to expect cheaper maps,
especially when these are in digital form

I think the fly in the ointment comes in the costs of getting the maps into digital form in the
first place. This is recent and expensive enough that the costs will probably be far from written
off as yet.

[...]

Yes, but they could *scan* their paper maps and make them available cheaply in digital form. I'm
sure this would be good enough for most recreational purposes, like walking. 20 km x 20 km tiles at
1:25,000 downloaded for a pound each, I'd buy 'em!

Regards, Nick.
--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England <[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, Nick Hopton <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In a recent message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To change the subject slightly, aren't most of the costs of mapping up-front at the surveying
stage? These will have written-off years ago, in the main, so we ought to expect cheaper maps,
especially when these are in digital form

I think the fly in the ointment comes in the costs of getting the maps into digital form in the
first place. This is recent and expensive enough that the costs will probably be far from written
off as yet.

[...]

Yes, but they could *scan* their paper maps and make them available cheaply in digital form. I'm
sure this would be good enough for most recreational purposes, like walking. 20 km x 20 km tiles at
1:25,000 downloaded for a pound each, I'd buy 'em!

Regards, Nick.

I doubt that gives the height information. If you check, you will see that the spot heights are NOT
always the same as the contours, so there is some independence there.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

Mike Clark <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris

url='mailto:proteus1@gmxDOTnet'URL:mailto:proteus1@gmxDOTnet/url said:

Mike Clark said:

And of course what we now have with deregulation of directory enquiries is a service where you
get the wrong number 40% of the time! But hey at least it's cheaper!

There was no need for deregulation. I recall it worked quite well as a free service run by
BT. And if it cost money to provide the service, BT (at the time) had massive profits to
subsidise it.

Ploooonk!!!!!

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>

You prefer the current chaos?
--
Gordon

Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Mike Clark said:

And of course what we now have with deregulation of directory enquiries is a service where you get
the wrong number 40% of the time! But hey at least it's cheaper!

Well, the wrong numbers are cheaper. I suspect, h'ever, that getting the right number has become
more expensive.

Rebates are available for wrong numbers and for the complaint call - but you have to ask,
apparently!

Fat lot of good it does you if you've missed a critical communication...
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>, one of infinite monkeys

at the keyboard of Jim Willsher said:

<SOAPBOX>

What you describe is an occupational hazard of *any* software running under Windows. The ground
shifts under you without notice, and things stop working.

Actually that's by no means unique to M$. But there are important reasons why it's worse there than
anywhere else: the lack of information with which to recover, and the randomness of breakages *even
if* you alway follow Best Practice.

Quoted message said:

"...Have you recently installed Microsoft ActiveSync 3.7.1? We have just been made aware that this
newly released version of ActiveSync is causing problems with Memory-Map,

That is entirely believable at face value.

Quoted message said:

the problem until we can address the issue...."

(Pay special attention to the last 6 words).

It looks like an excuse. It might be an excuse. But don't just assume it!

Quoted message said:

Morons! So, I can spend £90 (upgrade price) to get a bug fixed? They are touting lots of new
functionality in the new version. But if you live in Scotland like I do, it's of no use:

The bug is very probably not their fault. Well, except for supping with the devil in the
first place.

Quoted message said:

All in all, Mmeory-Map has become a white elephant. It does the job at the time, but you have no
upgrade path unless you spend heaps of money, and if the software has bugs in it then it's just
tough luck.

That tends to be true of *every* closed-source software product. Sooner or later you'll get dumped.

BTW, I've never even seen memory-map, and I've no idea whether they're 99%-villain or 99%-victim in
your story. Just advancing a hypothesis.

--
Things money can usually buy: (1) The Meeja (2) The Courts
(3) A member of parliament (4) A government policy
(4) [in case of weakness] A party leadership change Things money can't buy: (1) Honesty (2) Truth
(3) Justice

Hi Jim,

I'm going to spend some time this week looking very closely at Anquet. Both appear to be good
products...until you scratch beneath the surface! Anquet looks much, much better, but as I don't
actually own a copy (yet!) it's always tricky.

Obviously the final decision is your own, and you may prefer Memory-Map. But I've had my fingers
badly burned with this one, and have reached the stage where I say "spend £90 and upgrade, or change
path to Anquet". For me it's the latter.

Best of luck!

Jim

Jim Ford said:

* Jim Willsher <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Advice from a Memory-Map Navigator user - DON'T BUY IT! Buy Anquet, or something else that's
available. But don't buy anything from a company as arrogant as Memory-Map.

Thanks for giving us the benefit of your (bitter) experience. I'm thinking of getting digital maps
- I'll take your tip!

Regards: Jim Ford

Jim Willsher

Homepages at jimwillsher.co.ukjimwillsher.co.ukOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

[...]

Quoted message said:

All in all, Mmeory-Map has become a white elephant. It does the job at

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time, but you have no upgrade path unless you spend heaps of money, and

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the software has bugs in it then it's just tough luck.

I use Memory Map and regularly download free upgrades to the software. Some have been brought to my
attention via their e-newsletter, whilst at other times, I check for upgrades, through the facility
they have built in under HELP.

They are also offering a discounted price for existing users to upgrade to the 2004 3d version. What
is the difference between that and having to pay for annual updates for Norton Anti-Virus etc, or
most other software packages?

PU

Quoted message said:

But what you've said is worrying. Are Anquet planning to do any 3D updates with 25k mapping? I may
have to go for MM if there's no other alternative. I've wanted 3D software like this for years.

The reply I got from Anquet was that they were going to do something with the software that
users would like, but keeping specific details quiet (I asked about 3D mapping). Release date is
March 2004.

Cheers

Andy

On 16 Nov 2003 09:45:34 GMT, Jim Ford <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

* Jim Willsher <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Advice from a Memory-Map Navigator user - DON'T BUY IT! Buy Anquet, or something else that's
available. But don't buy anything from a company as arrogant as Memory-Map.

Thanks for giving us the benefit of your (bitter) experience. I'm thinking of getting digital maps
- I'll take your tip!

Regards: Jim Ford

Me too, but I've already more or less decided on Anquet because of all the cr*p that covers the
otherwise perfect S maps.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 117
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike Mason

url=''URL:/url said:

Just got my copy of the super scale Lakes Anquet map yesterday and I have to report that it's very
good. Just messed about with it today and done several screen grabs and 'stitched' them together,
loaded the result into Oziexplorer, calibrated it and have a map I can use for anything. Gone the
last bit and converted map to ozf format and transferred to OziExplorer CE running on my Ipaq
pocketpc.

All rather easier then scanning paper maps and 'stitching' or downloading from S_____M______.co.uk
and 'stitching'.

Can't comment on Memory Maps but they don't seem to have a 1:25000 of the Lakes yet and I wanted
something quickly.

Oh yes Ozi does work with ActiveSync 3.7.1.

Mike Mason

It seems to me that the regular boasting on newsgroups of how people have found ways to break the
copyright licence of maps is one reason that the companies regularly have to introduce changes and
incompatabilities into their software.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> ||
_`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

I have had Anquet for 12 months now and been completely satisfied.
There support is also first class and all updates have been free of charge
to download.
"Jim Willsher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Jim,

I'm going to spend some time this week looking very closely at Anquet.

Both

Quoted message said:

appear to be good products...until you scratch beneath the surface! Anquet looks much, much
better, but as I don't actually own a copy (yet!) it's always tricky.

Obviously the final decision is your own, and you may prefer Memory-Map. But I've had my fingers
badly burned with this one, and have reached the stage where I say "spend £90 and upgrade, or
change path to Anquet". For

me

Quoted message said:

it's the latter.

Best of luck!

Jim

Jim Ford said:

* Jim Willsher <[email hidden]> deigned to grace uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Advice from a Memory-Map Navigator user - DON'T BUY IT! Buy Anquet, or something else that's
available. But don't buy anything from a company

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

arrogant as Memory-Map.

Thanks for giving us the benefit of your (bitter) experience. I'm

thinking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of getting digital maps - I'll take your tip!

Regards: Jim Ford

Jim Willsher

Homepages at jimwillsher.co.ukjimwillsher.co.ukOpen ↗

Jim Willsher said:

Obviously the final decision is your own, and you may prefer Memory-Map. But I've had my fingers
badly burned with this one, and have reached the stage where I say "spend £90 and upgrade, or
change path to Anquet". For me it's the latter.

<snip> Whilst there is no excuse for a company's arrogance, I wonder if the reason they don't
address your problem is that they can't? Aren't they an American company (www.memory-map.com), and
is the UK outfit perhaps a glorified retailer, without the ability to address software issues? Just
a thought - maybe wrong. [1]

You might consider Oziexplorer which has much more functionality than either Anquet or Memory Map,
particularly if you are a GPS user. This comes with no maps, but you create your own from any
digital source, such as scanned paper maps (or screen grabs).

[1] If I'm right, why not contact the US people?