Bottom bracket shell (frame) shot?

Paul Hobson said:

*any* thoughts would be much appreciated!

Try wrapping teflon tape on the threads of the left-side cup, then
re-installing it. For me, it has not only cut down on the noise, but has
prevented seizing as well.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
_`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
(_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
Glenn Davies

David L. Johnson said:

Paul Hobson said:

*any* thoughts would be much appreciated!

Try wrapping teflon tape on the threads of the left-side cup, then
re-installing it. For me, it has not only cut down on the noise, but has
prevented seizing as well.

D'oh! I meant to ask about teflon tape! Well, good to know it's worth
a shot. Thanks!!!
\\paul

Paul Hobson said:

As some may have noticed from my r.b.marketplace post, I'm having issues
with my beloved Peugeot fixie. Here's the summary:

I'm currently using a cup/cone bottom bracket and from what I can tell,
the threads on the non-drive (adjustable) side of the bb shell are worn
down. When I first built up the bike, it creaked as a pedaled. I
noodled around at Sheldon's site and saw that I needed to properly
adjust the adjustable cup (tighten in this case). Problem solved for
several months. But then it came back. Tightened it a little more -
problem solved for a month. Now it won't got away. No matter how tight
or loose, I can hear and feel the adjustable cup slightly
shifting/creaking/popping (embarrassingly loud) as I put forward or
backward pressure on the left pedal for the first time. Basically:

-start to pedal forward <pop>
-cruise at a smooth cadence <silence>
-start to slow down <pop>
-coming to a stop <silence>
-accelerate forward <pop>
yada yada

The serial number is stamped on an aluminum plate on the bottom of the
bottom bracket shell, which I believe to indicate that the frame is from
the mid 70's -> French threaded -> lame if replacing the bb would fix this.

Your right cup's loose. That is probably not serious - yet.

Remove the cranks, remove the left cup and lockring then
bearings and spindle.

You'll find the right side cup is loose in the frame if you
can move it easily. Clean everything ( we like a
pressurized alcohol spray with a toothbrush for cleaning
threads) and either grease the thread or add a dab of
locktite according to your religion. Get the right side cup
firmly mounted in the frame. Torque to 50-60Nm. You may need
to make a fixture to hold your wrench against the cup firmly
(60Nm on a 2mm wrench flat).

Competent bike service shops have a tool for that which
bolts through to hold the cup from both sides. (The service
charge is small if you hand the mechanic a frame and a cup.)

Then reassemble with new balls and penty of grease if the
parts are not worn out.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Paul Hobson said:

As some may have noticed from my r.b.marketplace post, I'm having issues
with my beloved Peugeot fixie. Here's the summary:

I'm currently using a cup/cone bottom bracket and from what I can tell,
the threads on the non-drive (adjustable) side of the bb shell are worn
down. When I first built up the bike, it creaked as a pedaled. I
noodled around at Sheldon's site and saw that I needed to properly
adjust the adjustable cup (tighten in this case). Problem solved for
several months. But then it came back. Tightened it a little more -
problem solved for a month. Now it won't got away. No matter how tight
or loose, I can hear and feel the adjustable cup slightly
shifting/creaking/popping (embarrassingly loud) as I put forward or
backward pressure on the left pedal for the first time. Basically:

-start to pedal forward <pop>
-cruise at a smooth cadence <silence>
-start to slow down <pop>
-coming to a stop <silence>
-accelerate forward <pop>
yada yada

The serial number is stamped on an aluminum plate on the bottom of the
bottom bracket shell, which I believe to indicate that the frame is from
the mid 70's -> French threaded -> lame if replacing the bb would fix this.

Your right cup's loose. That is probably not serious - yet.

Remove the cranks, remove the left cup and lockring then
bearings and spindle.

You'll find the right side cup is loose in the frame if you
can move it easily. Clean everything ( we like a
pressurized alcohol spray with a toothbrush for cleaning
threads) and either grease the thread or add a dab of
locktite according to your religion. Get the right side cup
firmly mounted in the frame. Torque to 50-60Nm. You may need
to make a fixture to hold your wrench against the cup firmly
(60Nm on a 2mm wrench flat).

Competent bike service shops have a tool for that which
bolts through to hold the cup from both sides. (The service
charge is small if you hand the mechanic a frame and a cup.)

Then reassemble with new balls and penty of grease if the
parts are not worn out.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have a couple of used frames that I have not build up because it
"seemed" that the bottom bracket threads were worn. The cups were
"looser" (had some play) as they were threaded in by hand than the
same cups threaded into another frames .

My question is, if the RH cup will tighten to the above torque without
stripping, then should the frame be considered ok to use ?

A Muzi said:

Paul Hobson said:

As some may have noticed from my r.b.marketplace post, I'm having
issues with my beloved Peugeot fixie. Here's the summary:

I'm currently using a cup/cone bottom bracket and from what I can
tell, the threads on the non-drive (adjustable) side of the bb shell
are worn down. [snip] No
matter how tight or loose, I can hear and feel the adjustable cup
slightly shifting/creaking/popping (embarrassingly loud) as I put
forward or backward pressure on the left pedal for the first time.
Basically:

-start to pedal forward <pop>
-cruise at a smooth cadence <silence>
-start to slow down <pop>
-coming to a stop <silence>
-accelerate forward <pop>

Your right cup's loose. That is probably not serious - yet.

My fixed cup? The fixed cup is firmly in place - no wiggle at all. The
creaking only occurs with pressure on the side of the adjustable cup.

Quoted message said:

Remove the cranks, remove the left cup and lockring then bearings and
spindle.

done

Quoted message said:

You'll find the right side cup is loose in the frame if you can move it
easily.

I don't know. The fixed cup is in there really well. Without the
spindle, the adjustable cup has significant play until all but 4 threads
are engaged. At three threads, you can feel the wiggle, but can't see
it anymore. With two threads remaining, there's none that I can notice.

Quoted message said:

Clean everything ( we like a pressurized alcohol spray with a
toothbrush for cleaning threads) and either grease the thread or add a
dab of locktite according to your religion.

done and done

Quoted message said:

Get the right side cup
firmly mounted in the frame. Torque to 50-60Nm. You may need to make a
fixture to hold your wrench against the cup firmly (60Nm on a 2mm wrench
flat).

Competent bike service shops have a tool for that which bolts through to
hold the cup from both sides. (The service charge is small if you hand
the mechanic a frame and a cup.)

Then reassemble with new balls and penty of grease if the parts are not
worn out.

Yeah. I'll take it by the LBS. Thanks for the input!

\\paul

Paul Hobson said:

The serial number is stamped on an aluminum plate on the bottom of the
bottom bracket shell, which I believe to indicate that the frame is from
the mid 70's -> French threaded -> lame if replacing the bb would fix this.

*any* thoughts would be much appreciated!

You're correct that finding the serial nunber on an aluminum plate is
a indication that the bike is from the '70s. Another indication is a
seven-digit serial number.

If the BB is French threaded (35mm x 1mm) and you determine the
threads are indeed shot, all is not lost. The shell can be retapped
Italian (36mm X 24 tpi).

My PX-10E is functioning just fine with a French fixed cup and an
Italian adjustable. I'm using the original spindle made for a 68mm
shell width.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Paul Hobson said:

Yeah. I'll take it by the LBS. Thanks for the input!

I've seen damaged BB threads that would not support a Phil cup give
trouble-free service with a Campy N. Record steel-cup BB.

If the threads are finis, there is a Stronglight (formerly by Mavic)
"threadless" BB that requires chamfering the BB shell. I have one of
those that has also worked just fine. You might have to google under
Zefal to find photos/info. Some bike shops might have the chamfering
tools. "Keeping it French", and pourquoi pas? --D-y

-snip BB discussion-

Robert said:

I have a couple of used frames that I have not build up because it
"seemed" that the bottom bracket threads were worn. The cups were
"looser" (had some play) as they were threaded in by hand than the
same cups threaded into another frames .
My question is, if the RH cup will tighten to the above torque without
stripping, then should the frame be considered ok to use ?

Yes, I would say so. Take a look at the threads in a good
light after cleaning. If damaged, they can be repaired:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/FORKTHRD.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Robert said:

I have a couple of used frames that I have not build up because it
"seemed" that the bottom bracket threads were worn. The cups were
"looser" (had some play) as they were threaded in by hand than the
same cups threaded into another frames .
My question is, if the RH cup will tighten to the above torque without
stripping, then should the frame be considered ok to use ?

Quoted message said:

Yes, I would say so. Take a look at the threads in a good
light after cleaning. If damaged, they can be repaired:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/FORKTHRD.JPG

You can get away with that on a steer tube, but with a BB shell, you'd
also probably need a repaint.

--

John ([email hidden])

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Robert said:

I have a couple of used frames that I have not build

up because it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"seemed" that the bottom bracket threads were worn. The cups were
"looser" (had some play) as they were threaded in by hand than the
same cups threaded into another frames .
My question is, if the RH cup will tighten to the above torque without
stripping, then should the frame be considered ok to use ?

A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, I would say so. Take a look at the threads in a good
light after cleaning. If damaged, they can be repaired:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/FORKTHRD.JPG

John Thompson said:

You can get away with that on a steer tube, but with a BB shell, you'd
also probably need a repaint.

Yes that's true, usually 2-3 inches of touchup.
But it isn't difficult or expensive considering the
alternate is a frame transplant.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971