Boss Doesn't Want Me to Cycle

Some advice: don't talk about stuff at work that you don't need to discuss.

Why does your boss have reason to fear for your safety? While I can't be
sure, it sounds potentially like a situation you created. I've seen similar
(not biking related) things happen before that were the result of too much
info given at work.

Still, I hope you work it out.

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
:: Last Tuesday, I went to a meeting with some colleagues at the
:: Headquarters of the firm where I usually work in the Training Center.
:: The HQ is in a place about 10 kms from the Training Center, and very
:: inaccessible by public transport. The way there involves the first 8
:: km practically all gently downhill, then a brutal ascent up a very
:: steep, windey forest road, then a rather bumpy dirt path. On the way
:: back, the topology is reversed - steeply downhill at the beginning
:: and then an upward faux plat all the way home.
::
:: I had tried the route by bike three times last summer and had got the
:: trip out in about an hour and a half. On Tuesday, I tried a different
:: route for the first time, got lost once, had to stop at every traffic
:: light to figure out the continuation, and took 2 hours 30 minutes to
:: cover the trip out of 9.56 km. On the way back, I walked almost the
:: whole distance, because even if and where it would have been easier
:: to cycle, I was too tired to trust my judgement on the road. Even
:: though her steering was fixed a few weeks ago, Behemoth is still
:: rather wobbly in low gears and at slow speeds, especially as fully
:: loaded with company documents and water bottles she aproaches 30
:: kgs, so I felt safer pushing her along the sidewalk. Besides which
:: those low speeds put terrible pressures on my wrists and I didn't
:: want them to go into spasm again. As the temperatures were also well
:: above 30 Celsius I was going slow and drinking water frequently. The
:: trip back took less time than the trip out (yes, I do walk faster
:: than I cycle), giving me a round trip of 4 hours 30 minutes for a
:: total 19.01 km, with 3 km per hour my most frequent going rate. My
:: heart monitor, which I took with me, revealed that I was over my
:: aerobic zone, in threshold or redline, for about half of that time,
:: and within it for the remaining half with no time under. The monitor
:: also showed that my max heart rate of 168 was attained on the trip.
::
:: I did the trip out mainly within my lunch break and the trip back
:: after hours. I fully understand that 4 and a half hours to cover 19
:: km could not be integrated cost-effectively into a work routine.
::
:: However, I know the trip out could be a lot faster once I learn the
:: "script" for the route. I believe it could be managed in about 1
:: hour 10 minutes, allowing a half-hour to ascend the hill at the end
:: on foot (where my heart rate tends to max out). The same journey by
:: bus has taken me 1 hour 10 minutes so the time is comparable, and
:: the bike offers much more freedom than the bus which only runs a few
:: times a day.
::
:: But my supervisor is insisting that I am "not safe on the bike" and
:: that in future I must take a taxi for this trip, which might install
:: itself as something I need to do every Tuesday. I REFUSE! Meetings
:: with the Documenation team and closer liaisons with HQ have come
:: about on my own initiative entirely and one of my big reasons for
:: doing this was to get the opportunity to train up to bike commuting
:: on the journey. If I have to use stinky petrol to go, there isn't
:: even a point ot it.
::
:: The cab trip would cost about 20 Euros one way and I would have to go
:: through a big rigmarole to claim it on the company. I would also be
:: stranded out there with no way to get back (except on foot) unless I
:: could persuade the company to disburse a further 20 Euros to get me
:: home or beg a ride from a colleague (and be entirely dependent on
:: other people's routes and schedules). Not only this is majorly
:: inconvenient but I can see eyebrows being raised about the expense
:: and myself being targetted as an unnecessarily costly employee at a
:: time of company cut-backs (I am the only Carfree person in the
:: company but the French have even less understanding of Carfreedom
:: than they do of Childfreedom). Alternatively, the bosses will try to
:: force my colleagues to give me lifts but the colleagues will resent
:: it and I will have to deal with their bad temper. My impression is
:: that my supervisor dislikes my rapprochement with HQ and is trying
:: to punish me by playing up transport difficulties and creating
:: issues where there aren't any. I also particularly resent the way
:: these motorist [censored] go on about my "safety". Yes, I am terrified
:: of road traffic which is why I spend so much time on sidewalks. But
:: whereas early death by road is a possibility, early death by heart
:: disease and diabetes is a near certainty for me if I retain the
:: sedentary lifestyle of the IT geek.
::
:: So it looks like I have some civil disobedience on the way. I WILL
:: NOT TAKE THAT CAB!.
::
:: EFR
:: Carfree By Choice in Ile de France

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

....

Quoted message said:

So it looks like I have some civil disobedience on the way. I WILL NOT
TAKE THAT CAB!.

EFR
Carfree By Choice in Ile de France

Well said! I hope you can come to a reasonable conclusion.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:46:27 +0200 someone who may be Elisa
Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

But my supervisor is insisting that I am "not safe on the bike"

Does your supervisor have a religious view that it is not safe to
ride a bike, or are they amenable to reason?

Quoted message said:

I
also particularly resent the way these motorist [censored] go on about my
"safety".

"Safety" is often trotted out when the real reason is different.

Quoted message said:

Yes, I am terrified of road traffic which is why I spend so
much time on sidewalks.

There are ways of cycling that remove much of the terror for many
people.

Quoted message said:

But whereas early death by road is a
possibility, early death by heart disease and diabetes is a near
certainty for me if I retain the sedentary lifestyle of the IT geek.

Phrased differently this might be a good argument to use.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But whereas early death by road is a
possibility, early death by heart disease and diabetes is a near
certainty for me if I retain the sedentary lifestyle of the IT geek.

Phrased differently this might be a good argument to use.

Or even with the same phrasing (just translated into French, of course).

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:21:21 -0400 someone who may be David Kerber
<ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But whereas early death by road is a
possibility, early death by heart disease and diabetes is a near
certainty for me if I retain the sedentary lifestyle of the IT geek.

Phrased differently this might be a good argument to use.

Or even with the same phrasing (just translated into French, of course).

I would end the sentence with, "if I have a sedentary lifestyle."

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Roger Zoul said:

Some advice: don't talk about stuff at work that you don't need to discuss.

A motto that has seen me well in life; "it's easier to ask forgiveness
then to ask permission". Following this line means you avoid the
corporate kneejerk "No" to any unusual request.

Quoted message said:

Why does your boss have reason to fear for your safety? While I can't be
sure, it sounds potentially like a situation you created. I've seen similar
(not biking related) things happen before that were the result of too much
info given at work.

Still, I hope you work it out.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:46:27 +0200, Elisa Francesca Roselli
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):
....

Quoted message said:

my supervisor is insisting that I am "not safe on the bike" and that
in future I must take a taxi for this trip, ...

This should be a refutable statement. If you can find no stats
specific to France, ther eare stats available showing what exposure to
var=ious forms of traffic lead to an expectation of fatality for the
UK.

Cycling is, perhaps counter-intuitively to your boss, safer than other
forms.

Can someone else point Elisa to a place where the stats are
published?

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Not Responding said:

A motto that has seen me well in life; "it's easier to ask forgiveness
then to ask permission".

hmmmm. See
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20040531.html

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Hansen wrote:
:: On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:46:27 +0200 someone who may be Elisa
:: Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]>
:: wrote this:-
::
::: But my supervisor is insisting that I am "not safe on the bike"
::
:: Does your supervisor have a religious view that it is not safe to
:: ride a bike, or are they amenable to reason?
::
::: I
::: also particularly resent the way these motorist [censored] go on
::: about my "safety".
::
:: "Safety" is often trotted out when the real reason is different.
::
::: Yes, I am terrified of road traffic which is why I spend so
::: much time on sidewalks.
::
:: There are ways of cycling that remove much of the terror for many
:: people.
::
::: But whereas early death by road is a
::: possibility, early death by heart disease and diabetes is a near
::: certainty for me if I retain the sedentary lifestyle of the IT geek.
::
:: Phrased differently this might be a good argument to use.

I wish....the problem is that Elisa is doing this for work, and if there is
a preception (no matter where it came from) that cycling along a given route
is unsafe, then the employer must act in both the best interest of the
employee and the company. One can easily argument that one can address a
sedentary lifestyle outside of work hours. Of course, bossman can't stop
her from riding durning lunch or to/fro work. But bossman might have
something to say about riding during work hours.

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

Meetings with the
Documenation team and closer liaisons with HQ have come about on my own
initiative entirely and one of my big reasons for doing this was to get
the opportunity to train up to bike commuting on the journey. If I have
to use stinky petrol to go, there isn't even a point ot it.

I may be an avid cyclist, but I'm also a former executive with a
Fortune 500 company. The above says it all. Seems to me the only point
of the meetings is to give you an opportunity to get in some cycling.
If that's the case cancel the meeting! You should have no expectation
that your company will pay for time spent on your bike.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my supervisor is insisting that I am "not safe on the bike" and that
in future I must take a taxi for this trip, ...

This should be a refutable statement. If you can find no stats
specific to France, ther eare stats available showing what exposure to
var=ious forms of traffic lead to an expectation of fatality for the
UK.

Cycling is, perhaps counter-intuitively to your boss, safer than other
forms.

Can someone else point Elisa to a place where the stats are
published?

For the UK:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=7250&Pos=&ColRank=
1&Rank=272

short(ish) link to the same thing:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D69F13988

Click on excel option to get nicely formatted table, the general option
thingy to get ugly, unformatted version.

From your supervisor's point of view, having you with what are
considered important company documents on a bicycle with an admittantly
questionable ride in high temperatures is not the safest way to get
around. Especially when you take the very high (30C?) high temperature
and low gears into consideration? What if you were to become injured or
suffer from a heat related trauma?

If making your living isn't worth making a stand about the cab, I would
negotiate cab fare compensation with my supervisor. If it is important
for the company that you make this meeting and take a cab in between for
health/safety reasons, then the company should willingly and happily pay
for it.

I have seen coworkers make stands on the many trivial issues, and some
have lost jobs (and lifestyle) over it. While their ego may have felt
justified and satisfied, losing their income and not being able to match
it with another income even close to the one they gave up, was not worth
listening to their ego imo. You should really yhink about whether taking
a cab or not is more important than what you are doing for a living. If
it is so be it, you can go to sleep with a happy soul.

Please keep in mind too, that we offer up advice off our cuff at times
as there is nothing at stake for us in the advice we give. jmho

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

The cab trip would cost about 20 Euros one way and I would have to go
through a big rigmarole to claim it on the company. I would also be
stranded out there with no way to get back (except on foot) unless I
could persuade the company to disburse a further 20 Euros to get me home
or beg a ride from a colleague (and be entirely dependent on other
people's routes and schedules). Not only this is majorly inconvenient
but I can see eyebrows being raised about the expense and myself being
targetted as an unnecessarily costly employee at a time of company
cut-backs (I am the only Carfree person in the company but the French
have even less understanding of Carfreedom than they do of
Childfreedom).

I'd suggest a sneakier approach than outright refusal. Go ahead and
take a cab both ways next week. File a reimbursement claim (I assume
said boss has to sign it, right?). Don't push it, put it in the system
and let it go.

If you haven't been reimbursed by the following week, ride your bike,
because you haven't been reimbursed for last week's cab rides, and
continue until you get the check. With luck, you'll have a couple of
safe weeks under your tires before the check comes back, and nobody will
care any more.

Pat

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Can someone else point Elisa to a place where the stats are
published?

For the UK:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=7250&Pos=&ColRank=
1&Rank=272

short(ish) link to the same thing:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D69F13988

Click on excel option to get nicely formatted table, the general option
thingy to get ugly, unformatted version.

Not much stat in France (we are not that transparent:-).
www.fubicy.org has some I guess.
Another source on European documentation is
http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/cycling.html
look for Wardlaw's paper which explain that French cyclists are 2.5 ou
3.5 safer than motorists.

Besides, so long as you're not late at your meeting, your boss has
nothing to say about the way you get there.

Jean-Pierre

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

Last Tuesday, I went to a meeting with some colleagues at the
Headquarters of the firm where I usually work in the Training Center.
The HQ is in a place about 10 kms from the Training Center, and very
inaccessible by public transport. The way there involves the first 8
km practically all gently downhill, then a brutal ascent up a very
steep, windey forest road, then a rather bumpy dirt path. On the way
back, the topology is reversed - steeply downhill at the beginning
and then an upward faux plat all the way home.

....

Quoted message said:

EFR
Carfree By Choice in Ile de France

Where is your work located and where is your meeting? Maybe Those of us who
bike in the area can suggest an optimal route.

Quoted message said:

I wish....the problem is that Elisa is doing this for work, and if there

is

Quoted message said:

a preception (no matter where it came from) that cycling along a given

route

Quoted message said:

is unsafe, then the employer must act in both the best interest of the
employee and the company. One can easily argument that one can address a
sedentary lifestyle outside of work hours. Of course, bossman can't stop
her from riding durning lunch or to/fro work. But bossman might have
something to say about riding during work hours.

Worse, bossman may have either a contrived or real concern regarding the
reliability of Elisa's chosen method of transportation. There could also be
a concern on the part of bossman regarding whatever the French equivalent of
worker's compensation is, given that Elisa has spoken of "terrible pressure
on my wrists and I don't want them to go into spasm again." And then
there's the simple practicality of this particular trip by bike, given that
the bike, loaded down, weighs over 60 pounds. That's a lot to handle,
either riding or pushing, and it's apparent that Elisa isn't yet up to
Lance's caliber of riding.

Finally, as far as safety is concerned, it's not always going to be the case
that a given cyclist can safely navigate a given route. Could be that Elisa
has no choice but to use roads that are quite hostile to cyclists in
general, and require a degree of skill & strength that isn't possessed.

I hate to sound like I'm negative towards an attempt to use cycling in one's
daily life, but there may be issues here that go beyond the norm.

By the way, if Elisa would be interested in posting the beginning & end
points of the route, I'd possibly be able to check it out late July, when
I'll be spending some time in Paris. Heck, my daughter will even have a
video camera... we could film a documentary! Just kidding... but I am
curious.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]>
wrote

Quoted message said:

But my supervisor is insisting that I am "not safe on the bike" and that
in future I must take a taxi for this trip, which might install itself
as something I need to do every Tuesday. I REFUSE! Meetings with the
Documenation team and closer liaisons with HQ have come about on my own
initiative entirely and one of my big reasons for doing this was to get
the opportunity to train up to bike commuting on the journey. If I have
to use stinky petrol to go, there isn't even a point ot it.

The cab trip would cost about 20 Euros one way and I would have to go
through a big rigmarole to claim it on the company. I would also be
stranded out there with no way to get back (except on foot) unless I
could persuade the company to disburse a further 20 Euros to get me home
or beg a ride from a colleague (and be entirely dependent on other
people's routes and schedules). Not only this is majorly inconvenient
but I can see eyebrows being raised about the expense and myself being
targetted as an unnecessarily costly employee at a time of company
cut-backs (I am the only Carfree person in the company but the French
have even less understanding of Carfreedom than they do of
Childfreedom). Alternatively, the bosses will try to force my colleagues
to give me lifts but the colleagues will resent it and I will have to
deal with their bad temper. My impression is that my supervisor dislikes
my rapprochement with HQ and is trying to punish me by playing up
transport difficulties and creating issues where there aren't any. I
also particularly resent the way these motorist [censored] go on about my
"safety". Yes, I am terrified of road traffic which is why I spend so
much time on sidewalks. But whereas early death by road is a
possibility, early death by heart disease and diabetes is a near
certainty for me if I retain the sedentary lifestyle of the IT geek.

So it looks like I have some civil disobedience on the way. I WILL NOT
TAKE THAT CAB!.

EFR
Carfree By Choice in Ile de France

Your boss has a few concerns, some justified, some not.

Safety aspect - typical in the non-riding populace.
Time aspect - If this is during the workday, he may have a semi-valid
concern about the time thing. If it takes you 2+ hours round trip by bike,
thats 2+ hours out of your workday, just to get back and forth to a meeting.
How long does it take by car (cab)?
"If the other people can get there in 20 minutes, why can't you?"

Is there more than one than one person going from your HQ to the Training
center and back at the same time? If so, then carpool, every time! Not just
you, everyone! This week, Marie drives, next week Pierre drives, the week
after that, Marta drives...
Organize the rotation, push it as cheaper and more comfortable for the
individual employee, get the bosses support if you can (...in the interest
of time and efficiency, blah, blah, blah...).

Being car-free does not have to mean never, ever using motor transport. Just
be judicious in how it is used. And "civil disobedience" is not always good
when it's your boss. Choose your battles. Using work time for bike training
is usually not a good battle.

Pete

Quoted message said:

slow and drinking water frequently. The trip back took less time than
the trip out (yes, I do walk faster than I cycle), giving me a round
trip of 4 hours 30 minutes for a total 19.01 km, with 3 km per hour my
most frequent going rate. My heart monitor, which I took with me,

While I fully agree that you should be able to use your transportation
method of choice so long as you aren't billing the company for the
time it takes to do so - why not walk if you can walk faster than you
cycle? (assuming there's space to do so the whole way) And if you do
walk faster than you cycle, maybe you could find some cyclist training
somewhere near where you are, because it actually seems to me to be
quite quite difficult to ride at 3km/h. Its almost certainly to cause
a lot of knee pain to go at that speed. Even to go at a still quite
leisurely pace of 15 km/h (with the exception of the steep uphill)
you'll save yourself tons of time!!

I'm also sure your co-workers should have no problem taking you along
if they are going over at the same time, and although it may feel
against your principles, they are going to take their car there anyway
so might as well fill the space in it.

But yeah, someone telling me I can't cycle because its not safe would
be enough to make me really angry at them.

Quoted message said:

But yeah, someone telling me I can't cycle because its not safe would
be enough to make me really angry at them.

paternalistic.