Boots & crampon compatibility

"Wai-kay Chan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a new pair of 3/4 season boots & crampons for

general hill

Quoted message said:

walking & bagging Munros in winter, but I also want to use the same

boots

Quoted message said:

when there is no snow or ice about.

I'm looking at the Berghaus GR20 and the Scarpa SL M3. The

manufactures both

Quoted message said:

state that these are 3/4 boots, and I'm assuming that they are B1

boots, but

Quoted message said:

has anyone had any experience/opinions using crampons with them?

I have used Scarpa SLs for about the last 10 winters on snow and ice
doing the Munros and now Corbett's. I use the Scarpa with a pair of
Ice Trek strap on crampons and have found them more than up to
anything I have come across so far. Don't know about the GR20s though.
Have fun whichever you buy.

--
Cheers
Graham

284/284 110/219

If you wish to sponsor me and my colleagues for the Vodafone / NAS
Kilimanjaro climb in January 2005 please visit
http://www.justgiving.com/VFKilimanjaro ~ Thank You.

On 14/11/04 5:59 pm, in article [email hidden], "Wai-kay

Chan said:

I'm looking for a new pair of 3/4 season boots & crampons for general hill
walking & bagging Munros in winter, but I also want to use the same boots
when there is no snow or ice about.

I'm looking at the Berghaus GR20 and the Scarpa SL M3. The manufactures both
state that these are 3/4 boots, and I'm assuming that they are B1 boots, but
has anyone had any experience/opinions using crampons with them?

The Scarpas are wonderful boots and far better built that Berghaus boots. I
tried some Berghaus boots a couple of years ago and was very disappointed.
The Scarpa will work well with crampons but I wouldn't want to have worn
them on my Berghaus boots. From looking at the GR20 they are not much
stronger than my old boots.

A better alternative to Scarpa (if you need one) would be Meindle or
Raichle.

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a new pair of 3/4 season boots & crampons for general hill
walking & bagging Munros in winter, but I also want to use the same boots
when there is no snow or ice about.

I'm looking at the Berghaus GR20 and the Scarpa SL M3. The manufactures both
state that these are 3/4 boots, and I'm assuming that they are B1 boots, but
has anyone had any experience/opinions using crampons with them?

I've used Scarpa SLs with Grivel G10 crampons (strap-ons) for Winter
hillwalking in the Lakes and also for Summer mountaineering in the
Pyrenees and found them to work very well. I get on with these boots in
terms of fit and would definitely recommend them to anyone who they'll
suit in that respect.

My only reservation is I've found Vibram soles to be b*stard slippery on
wet rock, but then this applies to probably 90% of all boots sold in the UK.

Never tried Berghaus boots so can't comment there.

hth,

--
Boo

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:15:58 GMT, Andy Howell

andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said:

The Scarpas are wonderful boots and far better built that Berghaus boots. I
tried some Berghaus boots a couple of years ago and was very disappointed.

I bought some Berghaus boots 15 years ago. I forget the model, which
were at the time the best and most comfortable boots I'd ever had. I
found out later they had been made for Berghaus by Scarpa. Maybe if
you asked around you might find out who make the Berghaus boots you
are considering. I'm doubt if it's Scarpa now, but it might be worth
knowing. One thing I learned from that was that Scarpa sometimes use a
last which closely resembles my feet so my current boots are Scarpa
Mantas. I don't think the SLs fitted me very well - weren't wide
enough.

John D.
--
at home in Kendal, Cumbria
Lake District Walks at: http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/
Kilimanjaro trip at: http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/kilimanjaro/

....snip...

Quoted message said:

knowing. One thing I learned from that was that Scarpa sometimes use a
last which closely resembles my feet so my current boots are Scarpa
Mantas. I don't think the SLs fitted me very well - weren't wide
enough.

Worth pointing out that SLs are the only boots (TTBOMK) that are
available in two width fittings. If you try a pair on and find they're
too narrow it's worth asking if they stock the wider BXX version (normal
width is the BX version).

hth,

--
Boo

"John Dawson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:15:58 GMT, Andy Howell

andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk said:

The Scarpas are wonderful boots and far better built that Berghaus boots.
I
tried some Berghaus boots a couple of years ago and was very disappointed.

I bought some Berghaus boots 15 years ago. I forget the model, which
were at the time the best and most comfortable boots I'd ever had. I
found out later they had been made for Berghaus by Scarpa. Maybe if
you asked around you might find out who make the Berghaus boots you
are considering. I'm doubt if it's Scarpa now, but it might be worth
knowing. One thing I learned from that was that Scarpa sometimes use a
last which closely resembles my feet so my current boots are Scarpa
Mantas. I don't think the SLs fitted me very well - weren't wide
enough.

John D.
--
at home in Kendal, Cumbria
Lake District Walks at: http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/
Kilimanjaro trip at: http://www.lakedistrictwalks.com/kilimanjaro/

Asked that question when I bought my Scarpa Mantas. The response was Scarpa
no longer make boots for Berghaus and that's one of the reason why Yetis
won't fit properly on Scarpa boots, the implication being that Berghaus
changed the design of the Yet so it wouldn't fit properly. I think there
might have been a fall out between Scarpa and Berghaus.

Mike Mason

In article <[email hidden]>,
boo@spam_me_no_spam.net says...

Quoted message said:

My only reservation is I've found Vibram soles to be b*stard slippery on
wet rock, but then this applies to probably 90% of all boots sold in the UK.

I think it's a vibram 'feature' - my Raichles are the same. I've still
got the bruise on my ass from Saturday to prove it. It did have my
companion in tears though, as I pushed off and ended up flat on my face
:-(

Has anyone tried out the 60 Degree Raichle 4 season boot? Been
considering one as I'm very happy with my current 3 season Mountain
Guides.
--
Darren

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:29:23 -0000, Darren G <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
boo@spam_me_no_spam.net says...

Quoted message said:

My only reservation is I've found Vibram soles to be b*stard slippery on
wet rock, but then this applies to probably 90% of all boots sold in the UK.

I think it's a vibram 'feature' - my Raichles are the same. I've still
got the bruise on my ass from Saturday to prove it.

Mine too! I was thinking of taking them back, although it may be too
late now. I almost broke my neck several times getting down a rocky
path. I'm now wearing trail shoes instead.

Quoted message said:

It did have my
companion in tears though, as I pushed off and ended up flat on my face
:-(

Oops, sorry to hear that :-( I hope you were ok.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:29:23 -0000, Darren G <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
boo@spam_me_no_spam.net says...

Quoted message said:

My only reservation is I've found Vibram soles to be b*stard slippery on
wet rock, but then this applies to probably 90% of all boots sold in the UK.

I think it's a vibram 'feature' - my Raichles are the same. I've still
got the bruise on my ass from Saturday to prove it.

Mine too! I was thinking of taking them back, although it may be too
late now. I almost broke my neck several times getting down a rocky
path. I'm now wearing trail shoes instead.

NO No No. It's the reason you need to go out and buy a pair of winter
boots /a well/.

Actually wouldn't part with the raichles - still think they are the most
comfortable boots I have ever worn.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It did have my
companion in tears though, as I pushed off and ended up flat on my face
:-(

Oops, sorry to hear that :-( I hope you were ok.

backside slightly sore. self esteem and ego significantly worse off.
(though later she fell off a stile and I caught her, which redressed the
balance somewhat!)

--
Darren

In article <[email hidden]>, Darren G
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It did have my
companion in tears though, as I pushed off and ended up flat on my face
>-(

Oops, sorry to hear that :-( I hope you were ok.

backside slightly sore. self esteem and ego significantly worse off.
(though later she fell off a stile and I caught her, which redressed the
balance somewhat!)

I was video-ing a walk my wife and I were doing and when she was
negotiating a rather high stile - she's not good at stiles, - I was
video-ing away merrily when she said :

"Never mind *%£)^$%*..ing around with that Bl******dy camera - come and
give me a hand!"

The sound track is much better than my typing ;-).
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

<homer = on>
Ooooh, new google newsgroups
doh! cant edit original
</homer = off>

I have found a problem with the vibram sole that I find underneath my
Raichles
I think the boots are Men's Mtn Trail GTX, but not sure.
soon after buying them a chunk of sole came off, just one of them
things, thinks I, as I had started to break them in and I had a trip
coming up.
as luck would have it, after about 7 months the stiching on the back of
both boots came undone on the same weekend trip, took them back and got
a new pair (diffrent designed back, so I assume it was a design fault,
glad I wore them a lot and got the damage done inside a year) anyway,
my new pair have lated well, getting on for two years, but for the
sole, that has an even bigger chunk ripped off them. My Scarpas vibram
sole has no problems,
Raichle call the vibram sole they use the "Rolling II advanced sole" or
something similar.
anyone else had a problem with this sole ?

<homer = on>
Ooooh, new google newsgroups
doh! cant edit original
</homer = off>

I have found a problem with the vibram sole that I find underneath my
Raichles
I think the boots are Men's Mtn Trail GTX, but not sure.
soon after buying them a chunk of sole came off, just one of them
things, thinks I, as I had started to break them in and I had a trip
coming up.
as luck would have it, after about 7 months the stiching on the back of
both boots came undone on the same weekend trip, took them back and got
a new pair (diffrent designed back, so I assume it was a design fault,
glad I wore them a lot and got the damage done inside a year) anyway,
my new pair have lated well, getting on for two years, but for the
sole, that has an even bigger chunk ripped off them. My Scarpas vibram
sole has no problems,
Raichle call the vibram sole they use the "Rolling II advanced sole" or
something similar.
anyone else had a problem with this sole ?

On 2 Dec 2004 05:16:11 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I have found a problem with the vibram sole that I find underneath my
Raichles
I think the boots are Men's Mtn Trail GTX, but not sure.
soon after buying them a chunk of sole came off, just one of them
things, thinks I, as I had started to break them in and I had a trip
coming up.
as luck would have it, after about 7 months the stiching on the back of
both boots came undone on the same weekend trip, took them back and got
a new pair (diffrent designed back, so I assume it was a design fault,
glad I wore them a lot and got the damage done inside a year) anyway,
my new pair have lated well, getting on for two years, but for the
sole, that has an even bigger chunk ripped off them. My Scarpas vibram
sole has no problems,
Raichle call the vibram sole they use the "Rolling II advanced sole" or
something similar.
anyone else had a problem with this sole ?

Yes, but not the same problem. I've only used mine once so far, but I
found it frighteningly slippy on wet rock. Discussions at OM revealed
that others had had the same experience.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

Quoted message said:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I have found a problem with the vibram sole that I find underneath my
Raichles
I think the boots are Men's Mtn Trail GTX, but not sure.
soon after buying them a chunk of sole came off, just one of them
things, thinks I, as I had started to break them in and I had a trip
coming up.
as luck would have it, after about 7 months the stiching on the back of
both boots came undone on the same weekend trip, took them back and got
a new pair (diffrent designed back, so I assume it was a design fault,
glad I wore them a lot and got the damage done inside a year) anyway,
my new pair have lated well, getting on for two years, but for the
sole, that has an even bigger chunk ripped off them. My Scarpas vibram
sole has no problems,
Raichle call the vibram sole they use the "Rolling II advanced sole" or
something similar.
anyone else had a problem with this sole ?

Yes, but not the same problem. I've only used mine once so far, but I
found it frighteningly slippy on wet rock. Discussions at OM revealed
that others had had the same experience.

The post above yours, was from me earlier today.
I read the posts about the slipperyness of vibram.
I posted via google and was unable to edit the contents of what I was
replying to.
Google groups beta has gone live as the link if you go to it from one
direction (from main google page), but not from another,(old bookmark)
its been a little bit disorientating using google groups today. its
never looked the same from one viewing to another.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On 2 Dec 2004 05:16:11 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I have found a problem with the vibram sole that I find underneath my
Raichles
I think the boots are Men's Mtn Trail GTX, but not sure.
soon after buying them a chunk of sole came off, just one of them
things, thinks I, as I had started to break them in and I had a trip
coming up.
as luck would have it, after about 7 months the stiching on the back of
both boots came undone on the same weekend trip, took them back and got
a new pair (diffrent designed back, so I assume it was a design fault,
glad I wore them a lot and got the damage done inside a year) anyway,
my new pair have lated well, getting on for two years, but for the
sole, that has an even bigger chunk ripped off them. My Scarpas vibram
sole has no problems,
Raichle call the vibram sole they use the "Rolling II advanced sole" or
something similar.
anyone else had a problem with this sole ?

Yes, but not the same problem. I've only used mine once so far, but I
found it frighteningly slippy on wet rock. Discussions at OM revealed
that others had had the same experience.

used mine (Mountain Guide GTX IIRC) many times now, and the only problem
I've experienced is the same as PW - the sole can be slippy on wet,
polished rock. Though it does seem to be improving with wearing. I'm
just wondering if they need roughing up a bit to get the best grip.

--
Darren

"Darren G" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

used mine (Mountain Guide GTX IIRC) many times now, and the only problem
I've experienced is the same as PW - the sole can be slippy on wet,
polished rock. Though it does seem to be improving with wearing. I'm
just wondering if they need roughing up a bit to get the best grip.

The boots I bought recently (Salomon Contragrip sole) initially seemed
slippier than I was used to going up a rocky hill in the wet but noticeably
better going down. That's the way it seemed to me anyway... no scientific
data recorded en route.

Darren G said:

I've experienced is the same as PW - the sole can be slippy on wet,
polished rock. Though it does seem to be improving with wearing. I'm
just wondering if they need roughing up a bit to get the best grip.

I emailed Meindl not long after getting mine, and they suggested this,
using sandpaper, to take the surface off. I haven't actually tried it
yet though. There's something different about these soles - the first
pair of boots I had with vibram soles, ages ago, were really grippy.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

AndyP said:

"Darren G" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

used mine (Mountain Guide GTX IIRC) many times now, and the only problem
I've experienced is the same as PW - the sole can be slippy on wet,
polished rock. Though it does seem to be improving with wearing. I'm
just wondering if they need roughing up a bit to get the best grip.

The boots I bought recently (Salomon Contragrip sole) initially seemed
slippier than I was used to going up a rocky hill in the wet but noticeably
better going down. That's the way it seemed to me anyway... no scientific
data recorded en route.

My problem occurred descending, and it was really quite frightening.

I find the different variety of Vibram soles on my Brasher trail shoes
to be less of a problem on wet rock than the Vibram soles on my
Raichles - probably (as was suggested on OM) because it's a softer
variety of sole - but the only really grippy soles that I've yet
experienced are on the bottom of my Montrail Storm/Goretex boot/shoes.
I wore those on the PW and the grip was really very impressive in all
conditions that I met. Unfortunately they didn't fit properly, though,
and knackered my feet! (Not their fault, though.)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 07:47:22 +0000, Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

I emailed Meindl not long after getting mine, and they suggested this,
using sandpaper, to take the surface off. I haven't actually tried it
yet though. There's something different about these soles - the first
pair of boots I had with vibram soles, ages ago, were really grippy.

I agree! I've had several pairs of boots with Vibram soles, but they
were all much grippier than the ones I bought recently. I'll try the
sandpaper tip, though - thanks for that.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \