Body shaping and Cycling

Keep the cycling separate from the lifting by about 3 or 4 hrs, eat plenty of carbs, and try caffeine pills before workouts if that isnt enough.

Used to be a bodybuilder, pretty hardcore 5'9" 215-220 lbs. Started riding a bike for the cardio aspect and the next thing ya know I'm down to 170 lbs and racing as a Cat4 on an organized team. Go figure. I still get to work my entire body each week. I do not do legs during the race season, but hit the gym at least 3 times per weeks often before training rides. Day 1; chest and back. Day 2; shoulders and traps. Day 3; biceps and triceps. If I get in any extra day I start the cycle over again. I try to get in about 60-75 minutes of weight training in for each session. This is clearly not as heavy as I trained back in the day, but I am able to maintain great muscle tone and even still have decent muscularity.

I'd say do triathlon stuff, even if you don't want to race in tri's.

Swim, bike, run.. and toss in some 30 or so pound free hand weights to work anything else you see fit.

I really hate going to a gym, and never wanted to buy a bunch of weights, so that works really well for me. Well and that I do, do tri's ;p

Neil Bastion said:

Anybody have any good ideas of how to combine weight training (for general overall shape, rather than body building) and cycling.
I'd like to have a toned upper body (arms, chest,....) but with spinning and cycling I find I dont have a lot of energy left.
If I lift before hand my ride is compromised by my weak upperbody and afterwards I have little energy to even do press-ups.
Any ideas. I even thought I may skip the ride on leg days, maybe doing a lite run instead.
(I spin 3/4 days a week and ride approx 100km on the road on Saterdays, and a short distance on a MTB on Sundays)
Neil

This is almost exactly what I do and my response is very different to what others will say.

Weight lifting and cycling are in conflict with each other;
1. Cycling requires a light body and largely fast twitch leg fibres. Weight lifting will build largely slow twitch fibres and put weight on.
2. You need a faster recovery between disiplines, as you will be effectively double training.

To combat the weight that you will gain in upper body, you need to keep fat levels to a minimum. I'm a 45 year old 181cm 76kg and have upper body muscle as well as cyclist legs, so it can be done without your weight going thru the roof.

The problem of benching after spinning is probably a fitness issue, you are doing a combination that the body isn't use to. The solution is just to stick to it and eventually the body will build that type of fitness and it will no longer be a problem.

You need to eat a lot of protein, possibly 2.2gms per Kg of body weight, if possible eat real food, if you are a vegetarian, its a little harder but still acheiveable. Most important is to eat a reasonable amount of protein immeadiately after the weights session. Carbs depend on whether you are trying to loose weight or maintain weight [this is where I'll get flamed]. It will be harder while you are going thru weight loss, as you will be forcing the body to convert fat to energy and at times you will feel you are going backwards, but once the fat has been removed, you can increase the food intake, including carbs and fat.

In addition to weight lifting I also do les mills pump sessions, which are low weight, high rep training and tends to build strength without too much bulk and I do one session of boxercise, which uses the upper body muscles in a different way again. Perhaps when you have mastered the cycle/weights combo, you can add the next challenge.

Let me know how you go.

mikesbytes said:

Weight lifting and cycling are in conflict with each other;
1. Cycling requires a light body and largely fast twitch leg fibres. Weight lifting will build largely slow twitch fibres and put weight on.
2. You need a faster recovery between disiplines, as you will be effectively double training.

.

Ahh no road cycling is slow twitch and weight training is fast twitch

dm69 said:

Ahh no road cycling is slow twitch and weight training is fast twitch

So why do I suck at spinning?

Neil Bastion said:

Anybody have any good ideas of how to combine weight training (for general overall shape, rather than body building) and cycling.
I'd like to have a toned upper body (arms, chest,....) but with spinning and cycling I find I dont have a lot of energy left.

This is a very interesting thread.

For my own goals, i.e. getting minimal bodyfat - defined/cut appearance at an 'average' weight & having reasonable aerobic fitness I concentrate my efforts as follows..

'harder cardio' == running, rowing machine; limited by injury potential (yup even rowing, managed to get some strange rib-cage strain)
rowing does appear to tone the upperbody just like cycling tones the legs.
i can't sustain the same peak HR's on the bike.

'cycling' == mainly minimal injury risk low-medium intensity fat burning, limited by weather more than anything else. When it's grim i just commute (if that), rarely extending the rides. when it's nice, I have no problem clocking up 3hrs or whatever, and burning off fat becomes completely trivial (so long as i can control alcohol intake). I have done periods of focussing on hill climbing.
For me the bike beats everything else for scope to burn max cals per week without injury.

'weight training' = limited by how much energy i've got left; i usually tried to do the push-pull type split and 3-4 sessions per week, only manage 15 sets per session really probably because i'm doing too much cardio. (but bodybuilding friends tell me to do 1 part/session & minimal cardio..)

In bad weather I have tried mixing weights & stationary cycling in the same session, e.g. repeating 3 sets of weights then 5mins bike; the weights being a 'push-pull' split. This was a solution to a time when an injury prevented running, and having bad weather at the time, and hating stationary bikes 🙂
This DID prove effective for me. I think this worked psychologically in terms of effort / enthusiasm (one is respite from the other), and balancing effort between the two opposite types of training.. Basically one is some say dont mix weights & cardio on the same day but i'm only doing half a weights program (upperbody only). Then again one of the fittest people i know runs for 30 mins before weights - which is completely wrong .. so i'm sure the alternating method would work for him.

I've never bothered weight training the legs as i found this counterproductive for cycling, due to large periods of DOMS.

Being ectomorphic and with my habits I have totally given up on trying to 'bodybuild', especially when told by a colleague who does this to 'minimize aerobic training'. I really enjoy doing the larger volumes of cardio when i can.
i find this lets me balance out enjoying more drinking on nights out (something i wish i could cut out, but after doing so one really starts to question whats important in life..)

Some trainer recommended i just do 3 weights sessions and 2 cardio. there is no way i could reduce cardio to such a minimal volume. I figure not weight training the legs gives me more scope (though it could be why i couldn't get usefull weight over a certain level)

I found getting super obsessive about food did help: i.e. weighing & spreadsheeting to get exactly 6g of fat per meal, exactly the quoted protein formula, graphing my weight, i.e. allowing the maximum amount of carbohydrate without exceeding calorie requirements. I have never got where i want to be without keeping up that obsession level 🙂

the triathlon comment above is interesting since my goals correspond to no actual sport, but i had in mind from everything i've read that a triathlon type regime would most suit what i'm trying to do.

Thanks gang
You've given me a lot to think about.
I have to say I agree with you Ebola, the only time I ever got to my leanest was when I was fanatical.
I watched everything that went in and out. I'd get the jitters if I didnt do something properly :eek:
As for the cycling/weights gusee I'm just going to have top try a few alternative and see what works
Thanks, again

Sorry to discredit, but there is no excercise that will change slow twitch to fast twitch, or vice-versa. As far as cycling, the gastrocnemius(calf) is primarily composed of slow twitch muscle fibers, making it one of the most stubborn muscles to grow with weight training. Much of its size is determined by genetics as you will notice some people who have developed calves and never did a calf raise in their life. Also, cardiovascular activity goes hand in hand with slow twitch fibers, as someone born with a higher percentage of fast twitch fibers will excel at activities such as the 100 m dash. As for the weight training, it is the same as bodybuilding, only to a different degree. You will find that with weight training, even when done consistently over a long periond of time, will not have you waking up looking like Ronnie Coleman. There are many things that contribute to the disgusting physiques of todays pro-level bodybuilders, none of which happens accidentally. I suggest you try and alternating schedule with weightlifting and cycling, do each every other day, and don't bother lifting weights with your legs, the bike is enough. The last thing you want to do is injure your knee doing deep squats and then not even be able to ride your bike.

Just a couple ideas about combining wt. training and cycling.

Since you're not trying to be a racer OR a body builder, there's lots for you to choose from to combine these two different activities.

First, you really like biking so that will be your main activity. Fit wt training in around it. It's OK to do both the same day, but, it's better to split the day and do one early and one late. Doesn't make any difference if you ride first or last. But on a day when you do both, don't do a hard bike.

Do weights 3-4 days per week and don't do body building or powerlifting routines. Do athletic, full body type routines, for three reasons. One, it works your whole body, two, everyone should do both aerobic and strength training, especially as you get older (don't know how old you are?), and three, they're more fun.

Example weight training activities: full body, athletic type moves. Squats or deadlifts - yep, do 'em. Sure they focus on legs but they are full body routines, nontheless, and they're great for all your leg muscles and the whole posterior chain. I'm not talking leg presses, I'm talking bar on the shoulders squats. You said you got DOMS. The only reason you got DOMS was because you haven't been doing these exercises regularly. After you do them for a while you won't get DOMS. Biking is a very focused effort on your leg muscles, doing squats and deadlifts will balance that out for you. Add some weighted lunges (hold a db in each hand or put the bar across your shoulders.)

Squats and deads are your base exercises. After you get used to doing them, 2-3 months, add in some really fun stuff like cleans, clean and press or clean and jerk. Not trying to make you into an olympic lifter, here, just adding more challenge and fun. These are fun, athletic moves. And full body.

Upper body focused kinda full body, athletic exercises. Lots to choose from, here...like bar bell/dumbell presses done standing, not sitting. Dumbell clean and press. Yep, pick one up off the floor and put it overhead. Dips, chinups/pullups. Add weight if you can. Do rows - put your knee on a bench or just rest your hand on another dumbell in the rack and pick up a dumbell from the floor and pull it up to your waist. OK, it's not as fun as a clean and jerk, but it's great for your mostly upper back and shoulder area. Do some bench presses. I suggest doing them with dumbells, at least at first.

Do some curls if you want, but if your doing chinups/pullups, deads, and rows, your working your biceps pretty well.

Stand and do these exercises where you can (not the bench press, obviously). Use free weights so you work your auxiliary muscles.

Abs and core: I like weighted situps on an exercise ball. Sit on the ball so when you lean back you can lean all the way back and have your back arched but supported on the ball. (I usually push my toes against a wall for added leverage.)This gives you a pre-stretched ab. The pre-stretching gives you a greater range of motion on your ab work. Now grab a plate and hold it behind your head and do a few sets of 15 or so pre-stretched crunches. When your done, sit on the ball and hold a plate out in front of you and rotate side to side for 10-15 reps each side. That's a Russian Twist. If you want, go to the cable machine, grab a low (or high) cable and twist your torso with your arms out in front of you for another great twisting torso move. Note that none of these is done for 100 reps, go for 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps.

For the squats and other stuff do 8-10 reps, 3-4 sets. Work up to these volumes, don't start out at this volume or you will be sore.

I wouldn't worry about whether your fast or slow twitch. But, doing these exercises fast will work or train your fast twitch muscles. A fast squat is NOT fast down (eccentric phase), but fast up (concentric phase). Do the concentric phase fast, do the eccentric phase at a normal speed. Also, you don't have to go butt to calf on squats, just go to parallel. Don't do half or quarter squats.

Your having some fun now, aren'cha?

To split these routines to 4 days/week, you can do lower body and upper body routines. You don't have to spend 2 hours in the gym. Do this in about 45 minutes, even less, because you're not trying to be a bodybuilder.

For the single best site on weight lifting I like DrSquat.com. So does Doctor Morbius, as I seem him posting over there, too. Yes, Dr. Squat is a powerlifting/bodybuilding site, but it's alot more than that and they give you the straight scoop.

That's my 2cents.

Oh, one more thing. If your not eating to fuel your workout, then learn to do that. When you workout twice a day, that's even more important. I know some folks get up in the morning and bike without eating. But I'm sure they're not going on 50 mile rides, too. By eat to fuel I mean eat 250-500 calories, with good carbs, 1.5-2 hours before your workout. Get enough protein, too.

And don't worry about getting big. With as much cardio as your doing, and being an ectomorph, you won't be getting big anytime soon, I figure. Just strong and well balanced, lean and mean, and if you're 60, like me, you'll still be ridin' with the 30 somethings...well the slow ones, anyway. [img]cyclingforums.comicon7.gifOpen ↗[/img] But you won't be old, fat, tired, have stents in your arteries, diabetes, high blood pressure and can walk and carry your clubs for all 18 holes and still hoping you can get that new driver so you hit 'em 300 yards. And you're wife'll be smilin', too.

Best of luck,
JimE

Just a couple ideas about combining wt. training and cycling.

Since you're not trying to be a racer OR a body builder, there's lots for you to choose from to combine these two different activities.

First, you really like biking so that will be your main activity. Fit wt training in around it. It's OK to do both the same day, but, it's better to split the day and do one early and one late. Doesn't make any difference if you ride first or last. But on a day when you do both, don't do a hard bike.

Do weights 3-4 days per week and don't do body building or powerlifting routines. Do athletic, full body type routines, for three reasons. One, it works your whole body, two, everyone should do both aerobic and strength training, especially as you get older (don't know how old you are?), and three, they're more fun.

Example weight training activities: full body, athletic type moves. Squats or deadlifts - yep, do 'em. Sure they focus on legs but they are full body routines, nontheless, and they're great for all your leg muscles and the whole posterior chain. I'm not talking leg presses, I'm talking bar on the shoulders squats. You said you got DOMS. The only reason you got DOMS was because you haven't been doing these exercises regularly. After you do them for a while you won't get DOMS. Biking is a very focused effort on your leg muscles, doing squats and deadlifts will balance that out for you. Add some weighted lunges (hold a db in each hand or put the bar across your shoulders.)

Squats and deads are your base exercises. After you get used to doing them, 2-3 months, add in some really fun stuff like cleans, clean and press or clean and jerk. Not trying to make you into an olympic lifter, here, just adding more challenge and fun. These are fun, athletic moves. And full body.

Upper body focused kinda full body, athletic exercises. Lots to choose from, here...like bar bell/dumbell presses done standing, not sitting. Dumbell clean and press. Yep, pick one up off the floor and put it overhead. Dips, chinups/pullups. Add weight if you can. Do rows - put your knee on a bench or just rest your hand on another dumbell in the rack and pick up a dumbell from the floor and pull it up to your waist. OK, it's not as fun as a clean and jerk, but it's great for your mostly upper back and shoulder area. Do some bench presses. I suggest doing them with dumbells, at least at first.

Do some curls if you want, but if your doing chinups/pullups, deads, and rows, your working your biceps pretty well.

Stand and do these exercises where you can (not the bench press, obviously). Use free weights so you work your auxiliary muscles.

Abs and core: I like weighted situps on an exercise ball. Sit on the ball so when you lean back you can lean all the way back and have your back arched but supported on the ball. (I usually push my toes against a wall for added leverage.)This gives you a pre-stretched ab. The pre-stretching gives you a greater range of motion on your ab work. Now grab a plate and hold it behind your head and do a few sets of 15 or so pre-stretched crunches. When your done, sit on the ball and hold a plate out in front of you and rotate side to side for 10-15 reps each side. That's a Russian Twist. If you want, go to the cable machine, grab a low (or high) cable and twist your torso with your arms out in front of you for another great twisting torso move. Note that none of these is done for 100 reps, go for 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps.

For the squats and other stuff do 8-10 reps, 3-4 sets. Work up to these volumes, don't start out at this volume or you will be sore.

I wouldn't worry about whether your fast or slow twitch. But, doing these exercises fast will work or train your fast twitch muscles. A fast squat is NOT fast down (eccentric phase), but fast up (concentric phase). Do the concentric phase fast, do the eccentric phase at a normal speed. Also, you don't have to go butt to calf on squats, just go to parallel. Don't do half or quarter squats.

Your having some fun now, aren'cha?

To split these routines to 4 days/week, you can do lower body and upper body routines. You don't have to spend 2 hours in the gym. Do this in about 45 minutes, even less, because you're not trying to be a bodybuilder.

For the single best site on weight lifting I like DrSquat.com. So does Doctor Morbius, as I seem him posting over there, too. Yes, Dr. Squat is a powerlifting/bodybuilding site, but it's alot more than that and they give you the straight scoop.

That's my 2cents.

Oh, one more thing. If your not eating to fuel your workout, then learn to do that. When you workout twice a day, that's even more important. I know some folks get up in the morning and bike without eating. But I'm sure they're not going on 50 mile rides, too. By eat to fuel I mean eat 250-500 calories, with good carbs, 1.5-2 hours before your workout. Get enough protein, too.

And don't worry about getting big. With as much cardio as your doing, and being an ectomorph, you won't be getting big anytime soon, I figure. Just strong and well balanced, lean and mean, and if you're 60, like me, you'll still be ridin' with the 30 somethings...well the slow ones, anyway. [img]cyclingforums.comicon7.gifOpen ↗[/img] But you won't be old, fat, tired, have stents in your arteries, diabetes, high blood pressure and can walk and carry your clubs for all 18 holes and still hoping you can get that new driver so you hit 'em 300 yards. And you're wife'll be smilin', too.

Best of luck,
JimE

So there a few of us cross trainers out there.

Just wanted to re-itterate that diet is really important. You will recover much quicker if you give your body the materials it needs to rebuild the muscles you have just damaged in the weights room.

Compound movements seem to be gathering popularity at the moment. Whats the difference between clean and press and clean and jerk ?

So there a few of us cross trainers out there.

Just wanted to re-itterate that diet is really important. You will recover much quicker if you give your body the materials it needs to rebuild the muscles you have just damaged in the weights room.

Compound movements seem to be gathering popularity at the moment. Whats the difference between clean and press and clean and jerk ?

te only thing ill add to this is that i am assuming that when clothes are dirty you still need to clean and press them whereas other will only require to be cleaned and jerked out of the dryer

pointless i knw but i couldnt resist

mmmmmmmmmm

cross training hey as an extra point does anyone know if cycling can improve your sprinting (running) on grass im thinking rugby adn soccer

thanks

te only thing ill add to this is that i am assuming that when clothes are dirty you still need to clean and press them whereas other will only require to be cleaned and jerked out of the dryer

pointless i knw but i couldnt resist

mmmmmmmmmm

cross training hey as an extra point does anyone know if cycling can improve your sprinting (running) on grass im thinking rugby adn soccer

thanks

Jeytown said:

te only thing ill add to this is that i am assuming that when clothes are dirty you still need to clean and press them whereas other will only require to be cleaned and jerked out of the dryer

[img]cycling.net.ausmile.gifOpen ↗[/img][img]cycling.net.ausmile.gifOpen ↗[/img][img]cycling.net.ausmile.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Jeytown said:

cross training hey as an extra point does anyone know if cycling can improve your sprinting (running) on grass im thinking rugby adn soccer

I very much doubt it, as the muscles are used differently in running. However if you are doing enough sprinting, perhaps at soccer practice then the aerobic benefit from the cycling will help you to keep running back and forth during the soccer match.

Jeytown said:

te only thing ill add to this is that i am assuming that when clothes are dirty you still need to clean and press them whereas other will only require to be cleaned and jerked out of the dryer

[img]cycling.net.ausmile.gifOpen ↗[/img][img]cycling.net.ausmile.gifOpen ↗[/img][img]cycling.net.ausmile.gifOpen ↗[/img]

Jeytown said:

cross training hey as an extra point does anyone know if cycling can improve your sprinting (running) on grass im thinking rugby adn soccer

I very much doubt it, as the muscles are used differently in running. However if you are doing enough sprinting, perhaps at soccer practice then the aerobic benefit from the cycling will help you to keep running back and forth during the soccer match.

Great advice all, thanks.
JimE, I'm actualy an Endo, and depending on the BMI scale I look at, an 'overweight' endo 🙄
Actualy I lie, probably more Endo/meso as I hold a fair amount of muscle. Don't think I'm ever going to challenge the 'light weights':o

Funny thing you mention running Jeytown. I use to do a bit of running (did the odd half marathon) until my knee stated giving trouble. Probably due to the whole 'endo story'😕 , but I havnt run in a while. Since I've started cycling I've added short 5km runs (approx 2 per week) to my schedule. I've found that I'm not only fitter than I expected, but also my legs do seem stronger.
Incidentaly I was talking to a sports doctor and he was telling me that if you do a lot of cycling you need to include some stretching, or something that stretches the calves (like walking/running) because the calf and achilies (sp) get very tight from cycling and can make you prone to tears !!!

There's no reason why deep squats should injure the knee. I've been doing them now for many many years and my knees are quite strong. If anything I feel it's helped me prevent getting knee injuries so I'm surprised Lance Armstrong's team recommended he didn't squat in favour of leg-presses (which many people do bouncing).
As for cycling, I think it tends to tone the leg-muscles but doen't build them as such. My own legs tend to get more slender when I cycle.

tyler1212 said:

Sorry to discredit, but there is no excercise that will change slow twitch to fast twitch, or vice-versa. As far as cycling, the gastrocnemius(calf) is primarily composed of slow twitch muscle fibers, making it one of the most stubborn muscles to grow with weight training. Much of its size is determined by genetics as you will notice some people who have developed calves and never did a calf raise in their life. Also, cardiovascular activity goes hand in hand with slow twitch fibers, as someone born with a higher percentage of fast twitch fibers will excel at activities such as the 100 m dash. As for the weight training, it is the same as bodybuilding, only to a different degree. You will find that with weight training, even when done consistently over a long periond of time, will not have you waking up looking like Ronnie Coleman. There are many things that contribute to the disgusting physiques of todays pro-level bodybuilders, none of which happens accidentally. I suggest you try and alternating schedule with weightlifting and cycling, do each every other day, and don't bother lifting weights with your legs, the bike is enough. The last thing you want to do is injure your knee doing deep squats and then not even be able to ride your bike.