BMIbaby flight report

Quoted message said:

My chainwheel was rather vulnerable at the bottom of the bag.It seems
someone banged it down on that rather hard because the outer chainring
got bent.I rode on the inner only until finding just the right rock to
beat the outer ring back to shape with.

Rather hard? I wonder how far you'd have to drop a 20lb bike with a normal
(non ultralight) chainring to bend it?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My chainwheel was rather vulnerable at the bottom of the bag.It seems
someone banged it down on that rather hard because the outer chainring
got bent.I rode on the inner only until finding just the right rock to
beat the outer ring back to shape with.

Rather hard? I wonder how far you'd have to drop a 20lb bike with a normal
(non ultralight) chainring to bend it?

I am reminded of a tale about an Emergency Position Indicating Radio
Beacon (EPIRB) that was logged on a flight across Australia. The owner
was summoned to an enquiry to explain it going off on the flight and
was able to show them the only way it could have been set off was a
considerable drop whilst in the hands of the baggage handlers.

This is a similar tale:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/aus.bushwalking/msg/ec75a31a86e5183e?hl=en&

Cosiderable in this case being in the region of 40 G

Whether this is an urban myth is a matter of debate, but baggage
handlers do seem to be able to bend the unbendable and brak the
unbreakable. :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

24 Nov 2006 02:17 Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My chainwheel was rather vulnerable at the bottom of the bag.
It seems someone banged it down on that rather hard because
the outer chainring got bent.

Rather hard? I wonder how far you'd have to drop a 20lb bike
with a normal (non ultralight) chainring to bend it?

I am reminded of a tale about an Emergency Position Indicating
Radio Beacon (EPIRB) that was logged on a flight across
Australia. The owner was summoned to an enquiry to explain
it going off on the flight and was able to show them the only
way it could have been set off was a considerable drop whilst
in the hands of the baggage handlers.

This is a similar tale:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/aus.bushwalking/msg/ec75a31a86e5183e?hl=en&

Cosiderable in this case being in the region of 40 G

Whether this is an urban myth is a matter of debate, but baggage
handlers do seem to be able to bend the unbendable and brak the
unbreakable. :-(

Reminds me of something that happened in a company I once worked for
in the 80s. We made integrated navigation systems. One version
conisted of a rather nice 19" rack, about 1m high, in which were
interfaces, an HP micro-computer with CRT monitor, (floppy) disc
drives, slide-out keyboard, etc.

One of these came back having been "dropped out of a Jumbo Jet". Which
it had. It fell out of the cargo door (or off the forklift-equivalent
putting it into the hold). The rack was very much the worse for wear,
and had clearly bounced (!!!) on first impact. Out of curiosity, we
very carefully powered it up. The CRT didn't work (I don't recall
exacly what had broken, but it was _just_ the CRT), but everything
else did what it was supposed to do, albeit with rather more graunchy
noises than usual. After a thorough strip down, examination and
refurbishment of all sub-systems, and the junking of the rack and
monitor, everything was returned to normal service.

Although the incident never made it into official company marketing
material, the story was told many times of how our kit could even
survive being dropped out of a 747. Since, with its front cover on,
the rack was low-grade watertight, we reckoned it ought to survive
being dropped off a ship too (simple calculations showed it would
easily float if watertight), but that was never tested.

I've never tried taking a bike by air, but I suspect the basic
principle of packing all awkward/vulnerable items applies: provide
crushability. That is, something which is resilient in normal banging
and bumping, but which can provide sacrificial deformation in
extremis. Bubble wrap, while excellent in some respects for packing,
is lousy for helping with severe impact - I suspect it can actually
make things worse, whereas stuff like traditional corrugated cardboard
can provide a useful mix of strength and graceful crush
characteristics.

--
Tim Forcer [email hidden]
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions

Tim Forcer said:

24 Nov 2006 02:17 Phil Cook said:

Quoted message said:

On 23 Nov 2006 15:39:33 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:
>
> My chainwheel was rather vulnerable at the bottom of the bag.
> It seems someone banged it down on that rather hard because
> the outer chainring got bent.

Rather hard? I wonder how far you'd have to drop a 20lb bike
with a normal (non ultralight) chainring to bend it?

I am reminded of a tale about an Emergency Position Indicating
Radio Beacon (EPIRB) that was logged on a flight across
Australia. The owner was summoned to an enquiry to explain
it going off on the flight and was able to show them the only
way it could have been set off was a considerable drop whilst
in the hands of the baggage handlers.

This is a similar tale:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/aus.bushwalking/msg/ec75a31a86e5183e?hl=en&

Cosiderable in this case being in the region of 40 G

Whether this is an urban myth is a matter of debate, but baggage
handlers do seem to be able to bend the unbendable and brak the
unbreakable. :-(

Reminds me of something that happened in a company I once worked for
in the 80s. We made integrated navigation systems. One version
conisted of a rather nice 19" rack, about 1m high, in which were
interfaces, an HP micro-computer with CRT monitor, (floppy) disc
drives, slide-out keyboard, etc.

One of these came back having been "dropped out of a Jumbo Jet". Which
it had. It fell out of the cargo door (or off the forklift-equivalent
putting it into the hold). The rack was very much the worse for wear,
and had clearly bounced (!!!) on first impact. Out of curiosity, we
very carefully powered it up. The CRT didn't work (I don't recall
exacly what had broken, but it was _just_ the CRT), but everything
else did what it was supposed to do, albeit with rather more graunchy
noises than usual. After a thorough strip down, examination and
refurbishment of all sub-systems, and the junking of the rack and
monitor, everything was returned to normal service.

Although the incident never made it into official company marketing
material, the story was told many times of how our kit could even
survive being dropped out of a 747. Since, with its front cover on,
the rack was low-grade watertight, we reckoned it ought to survive
being dropped off a ship too (simple calculations showed it would
easily float if watertight), but that was never tested.

I've never tried taking a bike by air, but I suspect the basic
principle of packing all awkward/vulnerable items applies: provide
crushability. That is, something which is resilient in normal banging
and bumping, but which can provide sacrificial deformation in
extremis. Bubble wrap, while excellent in some respects for packing,
is lousy for helping with severe impact - I suspect it can actually
make things worse, whereas stuff like traditional corrugated cardboard
can provide a useful mix of strength and graceful crush
characteristics.

--
Tim Forcer [email hidden]
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions

With using a padded cycle bag that requires the removal of wheels, I
would use a spare set of axels, nuts and quick release levers (could be
salvaged from demic wheels) to pack out the drops of forks and rear
stays. The pedals I would remove and turn backwards so that they point
inwards and wrap them in bubble wrap, remove the lh crank and reattach
it in line with the rh crank, and then secure the cranks to the down
tube with an old foot strap.

David

Quoted message said:

would use a spare set of axels, nuts and quick release levers (could be
salvaged from demic wheels) to pack out the drops of forks and rear
stays. The pedals I would remove and turn backwards so that they point
inwards and wrap them in bubble wrap, remove the lh crank

I thuoght about how much protection to give it, but decided to take a
chance rather than spend an hour or so rebuilding.The weight of the
padding and shields is also worth considering if you are to ride away
with it.On the way there I left the cardboard at the airport.Whether
you can find your way in the dark also affects how long you want to
spend rebuilding.
The taxi option allows one to stuff the bag properly, but as the flight
cost 50gbp return( tax inc.) I would have been irritated by the fare
for the 20mile triip.

When I next use the bag it will have bike , velo, and a bike diagram
in large white letters on the side.

TerryJ

Quoted message said:

When I next use the bag it will have bike , velo, and a bike diagram
in large white letters on the side.

Try " Bike, please flatten thoroughly" !
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Sirius631 wrote on 24/11/2006 11:03 +0100:

Quoted message said:

The pedals I would remove and turn backwards so that they point
inwards and wrap them in bubble wrap, remove the lh crank and reattach
it in line with the rh crank, and then secure the cranks to the down
tube with an old foot strap.

Sounds like a recipe for having the downtube dinged by the pedals during
transit. YMMV

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Phil Cook wrote on 24/11/2006 02:17 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Cosiderable in this case being in the region of 40 G

Many years ago we instrumented equipment we were regularly shipping to
see what shock loads they were getting. 20G was common but I don't
think we saw 40G

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Quoted message said:

Rather hard? I wonder how far you'd have to drop a 20lb bike with a normal
(non ultralight) chainring to bend it?

During the summer I saw Prestwick airport handlers in action. They
were unloading luggage from a flatbed truck on to a conveyer belt at
ground level. The method used was - handler picked up bag, held at
waist height (3ft above load bed of truck) walks to edge of platform
(itself 5 feet above the ground) and drops to the bag to the belt. A
total drop of 8 feet. My attention was drawn to this at first by the
loud thud every bag made as it hit the deck.
Apart from the total lack of care shown by the handlers the
annoying thing was that by having a conveyer belt level with the truck
platform the drop could have been reduced without any extra work to the
handlers.
Anyway I bet an 8 foot drop could bend a chainring.
Iain

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Three of us went to majorca with BMIbaby from East Midlands to Palma
two weeks ago .I thought some people might like to know about the
flights with bikes.
Before I travel I always crave specific information.There's nothing
like an awkward train guard or check-in girl for spoiling your day.

The only instruction I could find said 'bicycles must be appropriately
packed' which is as vague as could be.Other airlines give much more
rigorous instructions.

The other two bikes were packed as in past years, with a bottomless
cardboard box from the LBS (thus it pays to keep on good terms with the
lbs) and the saddle and bars poking out, bars turned and pedals off.So
it looks like a bike and the handlers can wheel it about.You could
hardly say they were protected, but not likely to cause oil
smears.They went through both ways without damage and were seen on the
top of the luggage piles both ways.They were unceremoniously chucked on
the conveyers into the planes, but not harmed.
So there may be something in the theory that if it is very like a bike
it will get more careful treatment.I am told only two bikes damaged in
9years of doing this in groups.

I packed mine like that but being a 25inch frame it looked rather
exposed and I was afraid of being sent away from the check-in desk to
try better, especially with the recent airline luggage fuss.
So I took the wheels off, pedals off, carrier bag round the rear mech
and chain and put it all in an Argos 25gbp unpadded bike bag with a
couple of pieces of cardboard between wheels and frame.
My chainwheel was rather vulnerable at the bottom of the bag.It seems
someone banged it down on that rather hard because the outer chainring
got bent.I rode on the inner only until finding just the right rock to
beat the outer ring back to shape with.
At least with this method I was sure of not being turned away.

The panniers and backpacks went through without comment.
I put each of my two pieces in a garden litter plastic bag, string
tied the top wrote on the bags and tied on cardboard labels .Thus the
straps and little pockets were contained in a smooth package.James Bond
does not do this, because he is too self-conscious.

In the luggage hall we set up the bikes in 20minutes.The cardboard
wraps and my bag rolled up and were laid across the panniers.

I would say do not take a very valuable bike,do not take cheap allen
keys, and take more than one set in the group, protect the chainwheel
and rear mech (or remove them, but then you will take ages to get away
from the airport).A big pump is a blessing.Travel very light.Take
string and bungies.buy a litre of water in the departure lounge.

If you're still awake let me add that cycling in Majorca is brilliant,
at least off season.July/ august is probably different .Weather
perfect, roads very quiet except in Palma, drivers outstandingly
careful except for the usual mobile phone problem.
Our leader had a really good map from Stanfords.

TerryJ

Did common sense prevail with respect to tyre pressure?

--

Nigel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did common sense prevail with respect to tyre pressure?

I am afraid I do not know, since we all reduced pressure to softish
because we did not want to provoke argument,In past years the handlers
have flattened the tyres completely after check in.
This time pressure was not mentioned.My bike bag was zipped shut but
not locked.There was no sign that anyone had been in it, so it is just
possible that the handlers had updated their view on that, although I
doubt it.
I do not have a brake release trigger so it's pro's and cons for me
anyway when the wheels are going on and off.

TerryJ