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BMC: team for the future

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Road Cycling
Published
11 May 2007
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17 May 2007
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bar
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  1. Apparently the BMC boys are in Europe kicking ass at the Giro di
    Fruiti (thumbtacks in the road for all other competitors
    notwithstanding).

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may12news

    The team clearly has a bright future. However, one thing has me
    worried:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2007/features/bmc_camp07/IMG_7780

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

  2. bar said:

    Apparently the BMC boys are in Europe kicking ass at the Giro di
    Fruiti (thumbtacks in the road for all other competitors
    notwithstanding).

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may12news

    The team clearly has a bright future. However, one thing has me
    worried:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2007/features/bmc_camp07/IMG_7780

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Nice troll.

    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:
    bar said:

    Apparently the BMC boys are in Europe kicking ass at the Giro di
    Fruiti (thumbtacks in the road for all other competitors
    notwithstanding).

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may12news

    The team clearly has a bright future. However, one thing has me
    worried:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2007/features/bmc_camp07/I
    MG_7780

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Nice troll.

    Hardly. Wrong bait for this hole. He needs to ask us for doping advice
    to stir things up in rbr.

    Take that act to rbm,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  4. Ryan Cousineau said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On 11 May 2007 16:35:49 -0700, bar <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Apparently the BMC boys are in Europe kicking ass at the Giro di
    Fruiti (thumbtacks in the road for all other competitors
    notwithstanding).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may12news

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The team clearly has a bright future. However, one thing has me
    worried:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2007/features/bmc_ca...
    MG_7780

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Quoted message said:

    Nice troll.

    Hardly. Wrong bait for this hole. He needs to ask us for doping advice
    to stir things up in rbr.

    Take that act to rbm,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

    Tough crowd. Cut a noob some slack? 🙂

  5. "bar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Apparently the BMC boys are in Europe kicking ass at the Giro di
    Fruiti (thumbtacks in the road for all other competitors
    notwithstanding).

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may12news

    The team clearly has a bright future. However, one thing has me
    worried:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2007/features/bmc_camp07/IMG_7780

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Well, you certainly should be able to judge someone else what with your
    immense knowledge of how well helmets work.

    Oh, wait, no country that has maintained statistics of bicycle accidents has
    shown any improvement in their safety records upon massive increases in
    helmet use.

    Could it possibly be that you are a nitwit without the brains to be able to
    understand who knows what they're doing and who doesn't?

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    bar said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On 11 May 2007 16:35:49 -0700, bar <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    >moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    >they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Quoted message said:

    Nice troll.

    Hardly. Wrong bait for this hole. He needs to ask us for doping advice
    to stir things up in rbr.

    Take that act to rbm,

    Quoted message said:

    Tough crowd. Cut a noob some slack? 🙂

    Well, you got one. Hook, line and stinker. But that was pretty easy.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    Never take a tenant with a monkey.

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    bar said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On 11 May 2007 16:35:49 -0700, bar <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    >Apparently the BMC boys are in Europe kicking ass at the Giro di
    >Fruiti (thumbtacks in the road for all other competitors
    >notwithstanding).

    Quoted message said:

    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may12news

    Quoted message said:

    >The team clearly has a bright future. However, one thing has me
    >worried:

    Quoted message said:

    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=/photos/2007/features/bmc_ca..
    > .
    > MG_7780

    Quoted message said:

    >Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    >moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    >they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Quoted message said:

    Nice troll.

    Hardly. Wrong bait for this hole. He needs to ask us for doping advice
    to stir things up in rbr.

    Take that act to rbm,

    Quoted message said:

    Tough crowd. Cut a noob some slack? 🙂

    No, but we'll call you dumbass for your trouble.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  8. bar said:

    Tough crowd. Cut a noob some slack? 🙂

    You need to join LIVEDRUNK(tm) to get slack.

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Donald Munro said:
    bar said:

    Tough crowd. Cut a noob some slack? 🙂

    You need to join LIVEDRUNK(tm) to get slack.

    That's "sack." Dry sack.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  10. in message <[email hidden]>, bar

    (') said:

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!!  Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Oh, for heaven's sake don't be silly.

    Cycling is less than two thirds as dangerous as walking, and no-one wears a
    helmet when walking. On average a cyclist has one fatal accident for every
    twenty one and a half million miles, or eight hundred and sixty three
    complete circumnavigations of the earth. Cycling helmets are rated to
    provide protection in falls up to 24Km/h. Fabio Casartelli was descending
    at 100Km/h when he crashed and was killed. The force of impact scales with
    the square of the speed, so Casartelli's fall exceeded the protective
    specification of a bicycle helmet by a factor of sixteen times. Also - as
    is typical in such cases - Casartelli's fatal injuries were not to the top
    of his head, but to the side and front.

    Quick summary: you'll never need it, and if you did ever need it it
    wouldn't work.

    Addendum: when I crashed while descending at 75Km/h, I was wearing a cotton
    cap. Now, OK, if I'd hit my head in that crash I would not be writing
    this. But I didn't (I had a slight graze on the temple, some lacerations
    to my legs, and a broken back, but...) What happens in a high speed crash
    is a matter of luck, but getting killed isn't inevitable and it isn't even
    very likely.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    ;; Drivers in the UK kill more people every single year than
    ;; Al Qaeda have ever killed worldwide in any single year.

  11. A few notes on helmet standards and injuries:

    Firstly a bit of history - The Snell Memorial Foundation was started because
    of the death of a driver in a SCCA sports car race.

    Bell Helmet Company was founded and they discovered that the motorcycle
    crowd was a more lucritive audience for the products. Around 1988 or so,
    Bell had a legal opinion written that essentially said that helmets had no
    effect on motorcycle deaths and injuries and so if they continued to market
    to motorcyclist who were mostly young foolish individuals that Bell could
    expect to be sued out of business for contributing to reckless driving of
    motorcyclists.

    Bell twigged that a helmet would be just as easily marketed to bicyclists, a
    sport that was starting to grow again after years of hibernation. Since
    serious bicyclists tend to be older individuals they would be a great deal
    less likely to have outraged parents suing on their behalf. Moreover, since
    serious and fatal injuries among bicyclists were some 400 times less common
    per capita, the chance of someone blaming a helmet for increasing the
    reckless behavior of the wearer would be rather small.

    Bell used the standards set by the Snell Memorial Foundation. Let's say
    this - although Bell and Snell BOTH know that bicycle helmets have a faulty
    standard and are incapable of dealing with anything beyond a very minor blow
    to the helmet, they both do an excellent job at what they do - Snell has
    designed the very highest standard that is possible to obtain and Bell has
    designed the very highest quality helmets to test to and maintain that
    standard.

    The problem is that the standard is totally inadequate.

    For instance - effectively the test for impact is for a fallover. That is,
    dropping your head some 6 feet and striking the ground. If you fall over at
    a stop you acheive the maximum impact that a helmet could possibly be
    designed for.

    And the definitions for maximum impact that the standard sets is for a large
    strong man whose skull can (just) withstand a 300 gee decelerative force
    without breaking. Women and children as well as a significant proportion of
    men, cannot withstand such a force without fatal decelerative skull damage.
    Significantly - even this standard would leave a large strong man in a coma.

    What's more - this is a full on straight contact. In real life the odd shape
    of a "racing" helmet causes the head to twist on impact causing rotational
    forces. The brain is injured fatally by rotational forces a small percentage
    of those the helmet is tested to withstand.

    Joe Moron wears a helmet, falls over, sticks out his hand and using his
    muscles reduces the impact of his FACE to the ground to the point where he
    recieves a bloody nose, scraps on his chin and a cut on his forehead from
    the impact of the edge of the foam to his head. He then describes to
    everyone how his life was saved by his helmet.

    What he doesn't know is that Bell, in an effort to make helmets acceptable
    to athletes have put so many vents in them that the foam had to be
    significantly hardened. Interestingly, since the headform for the Snell
    testing is metal, increasing the strength of the foam had no effect on the
    acceptability of the helmet for the testing purposes. It still passes the
    Snell standards.

    However, because the foam now covers a much smaller area of the skull, local
    pressures on a real skull can greatly exceed the forces necessary to break a
    skull even within the range of the testing standards.

    Not that it really matters of course since bicycle accidents of the sort
    that would kill someone from an unassisted fall are almost nonexistant.

    In fact - some 90+% of all serious and fatal accidents to bicyclists in the
    USA involved collisions with motor vehicles with forces hundreds of times
    larger than any helmet could possibly mitigate. Of the remaining 10% or
    less - some 60 deaths a year across the USA - many of them are so obviously
    asked for (downhillers hitting 100 mph through rocks) that no one has had
    the temerity to try a lawsuit.

    Moreover, although there is no research to back it up, there is a high
    probability that helmets probably do reduce the severity of minor injuries.
    Minor injuries are those that do not require at least an overnight stay in
    the hospital. And since these sorts of injuries are fairly common it is
    probably in society's interest to retain helmets manufacturers in the USA
    and to promote the use of these helmets as somewhat effective.

    The point of all this is that while helmets probably do some good, promoting
    them as saving lives or as some sort of cureall for childrens injuries is
    actively working against cycling.

    "Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, bar

    (') said:

    Note that the two old farts ... er ... seasoned pros on the team (ie,
    moninger and sayers) are the only tools not wearing helmets!! Surely
    they can set a better example for the young guns than that.

    Oh, for heaven's sake don't be silly.

    Cycling is less than two thirds as dangerous as walking, and no-one wears
    a
    helmet when walking. On average a cyclist has one fatal accident for every
    twenty one and a half million miles, or eight hundred and sixty three
    complete circumnavigations of the earth. Cycling helmets are rated to
    provide protection in falls up to 24Km/h. Fabio Casartelli was descending
    at 100Km/h when he crashed and was killed. The force of impact scales with
    the square of the speed, so Casartelli's fall exceeded the protective
    specification of a bicycle helmet by a factor of sixteen times. Also - as
    is typical in such cases - Casartelli's fatal injuries were not to the top
    of his head, but to the side and front.

    Quick summary: you'll never need it, and if you did ever need it it
    wouldn't work.

    Addendum: when I crashed while descending at 75Km/h, I was wearing a
    cotton
    cap. Now, OK, if I'd hit my head in that crash I would not be writing
    this. But I didn't (I had a slight graze on the temple, some lacerations
    to my legs, and a broken back, but...) What happens in a high speed crash
    is a matter of luck, but getting killed isn't inevitable and it isn't even
    very likely.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    ;; Drivers in the UK kill more people every single year than
    ;; Al Qaeda have ever killed worldwide in any single year.

  12. Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

    A few notes on helmet standards and injuries:

    Firstly a bit of history - The Snell Memorial Foundation was started because
    of the death of a driver in a SCCA sports car race.

    Bell Helmet Company was founded and they discovered that the motorcycle
    crowd was a more lucritive audience for the products. Around 1988 or so,
    Bell had a legal opinion written that essentially said that helmets had no
    effect on motorcycle deaths and injuries and so if they continued to market
    to motorcyclist who were mostly young foolish individuals that Bell could
    expect to be sued out of business for contributing to reckless driving of
    motorcyclists.

    Bell twigged that a helmet would be just as easily marketed to bicyclists, a
    sport that was starting to grow again after years of hibernation. Since
    serious bicyclists tend to be older individuals they would be a great deal
    less likely to have outraged parents suing on their behalf. Moreover, since
    serious and fatal injuries among bicyclists were some 400 times less common
    per capita, the chance of someone blaming a helmet for increasing the
    reckless behavior of the wearer would be rather small.

    Bell used the standards set by the Snell Memorial Foundation. Let's say
    this - although Bell and Snell BOTH know that bicycle helmets have a faulty
    standard and are incapable of dealing with anything beyond a very minor blow
    to the helmet, they both do an excellent job at what they do - Snell has
    designed the very highest standard that is possible to obtain and Bell has
    designed the very highest quality helmets to test to and maintain that
    standard.

    The problem is that the standard is totally inadequate.

    For instance - effectively the test for impact is for a fallover. That is,
    dropping your head some 6 feet and striking the ground. If you fall over at
    a stop you acheive the maximum impact that a helmet could possibly be
    designed for.

    And the definitions for maximum impact that the standard sets is for a large
    strong man whose skull can (just) withstand a 300 gee decelerative force
    without breaking. Women and children as well as a significant proportion of
    men, cannot withstand such a force without fatal decelerative skull damage.
    Significantly - even this standard would leave a large strong man in a coma.

    What's more - this is a full on straight contact. In real life the odd shape
    of a "racing" helmet causes the head to twist on impact causing rotational
    forces. The brain is injured fatally by rotational forces a small percentage
    of those the helmet is tested to withstand.

    Joe Moron wears a helmet, falls over, sticks out his hand and using his
    muscles reduces the impact of his FACE to the ground to the point where he
    recieves a bloody nose, scraps on his chin and a cut on his forehead from
    the impact of the edge of the foam to his head. He then describes to
    everyone how his life was saved by his helmet.

    What he doesn't know is that Bell, in an effort to make helmets acceptable
    to athletes have put so many vents in them that the foam had to be
    significantly hardened. Interestingly, since the headform for the Snell
    testing is metal, increasing the strength of the foam had no effect on the
    acceptability of the helmet for the testing purposes. It still passes the
    Snell standards.

    However, because the foam now covers a much smaller area of the skull, local
    pressures on a real skull can greatly exceed the forces necessary to break a
    skull even within the range of the testing standards.

    Not that it really matters of course since bicycle accidents of the sort
    that would kill someone from an unassisted fall are almost nonexistant.

    In fact - some 90+% of all serious and fatal accidents to bicyclists in the
    USA involved collisions with motor vehicles with forces hundreds of times
    larger than any helmet could possibly mitigate. Of the remaining 10% or
    less - some 60 deaths a year across the USA - many of them are so obviously
    asked for (downhillers hitting 100 mph through rocks) that no one has had
    the temerity to try a lawsuit.

    Moreover, although there is no research to back it up, there is a high
    probability that helmets probably do reduce the severity of minor injuries.
    Minor injuries are those that do not require at least an overnight stay in
    the hospital. And since these sorts of injuries are fairly common it is
    probably in society's interest to retain helmets manufacturers in the USA
    and to promote the use of these helmets as somewhat effective.

    The point of all this is that while helmets probably do some good, promoting
    them as saving lives or as some sort of cureall for childrens injuries is
    actively working against cycling.

    "Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet

    Tommy Boy - did you write the Wikipedia entry or merely plagarize it?
    If you wrote it, I give it no creedance. If you plagarized it, I give
    your post no creedance. Even highschoolers know that Wikipedia is not
    a solid source.

    -B

  13. "billyroll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet

    Tommy Boy - did you write the Wikipedia entry or merely plagarize it?
    If you wrote it, I give it no creedance. If you plagarized it, I give
    your post no creedance. Even highschoolers know that Wikipedia is not
    a solid source.

    On your smartest day an total idiot could make you look dumb. If you don't
    understand that many people understand the issues behind helmets you're even
    stupider than I give you credit for.

    Here's a hint - if you can't argue the issues, don't try to make light of
    them by demonstrating your own ignorance.

  14. Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

    "billyroll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet

    Quoted message said:

    Tommy Boy - did you write the Wikipedia entry or merely plagarize it?
    If you wrote it, I give it no creedance. If you plagarized it, I give
    your post no creedance. Even highschoolers know that Wikipedia is not
    a solid source.

    On your smartest day an total idiot could make you look dumb. If you don't
    understand that many people understand the issues behind helmets you're even
    stupider than I give you credit for.

    Here's a hint - if you can't argue the issues, don't try to make light of
    them by demonstrating your own ignorance.

    So.... did you write it or plagarize it?

    -B

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

    "billyroll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet

    Tommy Boy - did you write the Wikipedia entry or merely plagarize it?
    If you wrote it, I give it no creedance. If you plagarized it, I give
    your post no creedance. Even highschoolers know that Wikipedia is not
    a solid source.

    On your smartest day an total idiot could make you look dumb. If you don't
    understand that many people understand the issues behind helmets you're even
    stupider than I give you credit for.

    Here's a hint - if you can't argue the issues, don't try to make light of
    them by demonstrating your own ignorance.

    TK, I never thought I'd write this, but for your own sake, back away
    from the insincere troll!

    Unless of course, you're enjoying this, in which case, well, you know,
    have fun.

    Try to mention LIVEDRUNK,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  16. Ryan Cousineau said:


    TK, I never thought I'd write this, but for your own sake, back away
    from the insincere troll!

    Unless of course, you're enjoying this, in which case, well, you know,
    have fun.

    Try to mention LIVEDRUNK,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Dumbass - please note that I am not the original helmet troll in this
    thread. My question was a legitimate one.

    -B

  17. billyroll said:
    Ryan Cousineau said:

    TK, I never thought I'd write this, but for your own sake, back away
    from the insincere troll!

    Quoted message said:

    Unless of course, you're enjoying this, in which case, well, you know,
    have fun.

    Quoted message said:

    Try to mention LIVEDRUNK,

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    Dumbass - please note that I am not the original helmet troll in this
    thread. My question was a legitimate one.

    -B

    You don't deserve a "Dumbass" because anyone who would restart the
    helmet [censored] here is either a clueless newb, or a complete idiot.
    Save us all the trouble and google for "helmet" in the group archive.
    When you're done reading that, sometime next spring, get back to us.
    Bill C

  18. Bill C said:
    billyroll said:

    On May 12, 9:15 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    TK, I never thought I'd write this, but for your own sake, back away
    from the insincere troll!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Unless of course, you're enjoying this, in which case, well, you know,
    have fun.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Try to mention LIVEDRUNK,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    - Show quoted text -

    Quoted message said:

    Dumbass - please note that I am not the original helmet troll in this
    thread. My question was a legitimate one.

    Quoted message said:

    -B

    You don't deserve a "Dumbass" because anyone who would restart the
    helmet [censored] here is either a clueless newb, or a complete idiot.
    Save us all the trouble and google for "helmet" in the group archive.
    When you're done reading that, sometime next spring, get back to us.
    Bill C- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Dammit. You're all dumbasses. Read the thread. I did no helmet
    trolling. I merely called out Kunich on his plagarism. Christ, you
    [censored]. Read the thread before you post, jackasses.
    -B


  19. Quoted message said:

    Dammit. You're all dumbasses. Read the thread. I did no helmet
    trolling. I merely called out Kunich on his plagarism. Christ, you
    [censored]. Read the thread before you post, jackasses.
    -B

    He's right -- I believe I am responsible for the original helmet
    troll, although all I really wanted to accomplish in the original post
    is to make fun of moninger and sayers (e.g., farts, tools, etc.).

    On the other hand, I do believe it's only prudent to strap on a helmet
    while riding. After all, what's the harm, and there might indeed be a
    case where the helmet would protect one's head. For instance, perhaps
    after the town-line sprint you happen to get into a scrap with jame
    carney or bobby julich--the helmet might serve to deflect some of the
    blows in the former case and could be used as an offensive weapon in
    the latter.

  20. bar said:

    On the other hand, I do believe it's only prudent to strap on a helmet
    while riding. After all, what's the harm, and there might indeed be a
    case where the helmet would protect one's head.

    OK, I'll bite.

    I do believe it's only prudent to strap on a helmet while driving.
    After all, what's the harm, and there might indeed be a case where a
    helmet would protect one's head.

    It's on...
    --
    JT
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