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Bloody London Bus

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01 / Original postBloody London BusTom Crispin · 6 Dec 2006 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #22Daniel Barlow · 11 Dec 2006

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UK and Europe
Published
6 December 2006
Last activity
11 December 2006
Original author
Tom Crispin
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22
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  1. Original post
    Tom Crispin
    Archived post
    #1

    I took a group of six Year 6 children (ages 10/11) out for a training
    session today using busy roads including a section of 40mph dual
    carriageway (South Circular Road).

    I then led the group through busy shopping areas and a gyratory system
    (Rushy Green, Catford). Finally we cycled through a market Street,
    (Lewisham High Street/Lewis Grove, closed to all motor traffic except
    busses and access).

    With lights and hi-viz jackets, we made a very visible group of eight.
    I passed a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN, and five children followed before
    the bus pulled out, leaving a child and my rear instructor cut off.
    When I next looked over my shoulder the bus was driving on the wrong
    side of the road, overtaking others in my group, but I could see the
    child who had been cut off and my co-instructor. Expecting the bus to
    turn right at the lights (juction with Lee High Road), I continued
    over the junction into Belmont Hill. The bus turned left, cutting off
    three more children - except it couldn't. The children, realising
    their peril, stopped - then the lights changed, with the bus stuck on
    the wrong side of the road, me and two children across the junction,
    four children and an instructor the other side, and an old lady
    shaking in terror at the schizophrenic behaviour of the bus driver.

    Another bus came in the opposite direction, wanting to turn right into
    the road where the first bus was coming from. Of course he couldn't
    turn into the road - so the jucntion became gridlockled.

    Pure madness.

    Hybrid satellite/map of the area:
    http://tinyurl.com/y6jdyg from
    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=51.461822,-0.011265&spn=0.002801,0.007231&t=h&om=0

    Report
  2. Tony Raven
    Archived post
    #2

    Tom Crispin wrote on 06/12/2006 19:07 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    Pure madness.

    I hope you have written to the bus company and TfL explaining how the
    bus driver put at serious peril a group of school children undergoing
    qualified instruction on the roads.

    --
    Tony

    "...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
    wildly inaccurate..."
    Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

    Report
  3. Tom Crispin
    Archived post
    #3

    On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:23:54 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Tom Crispin wrote on 06/12/2006 19:07 +0100:

    Quoted message said:


    Pure madness.

    I hope you have written to the bus company and TfL explaining how the
    bus driver put at serious peril a group of school children undergoing
    qualified instruction on the roads.

    After I got back to school at 5pm I spent an hour on the phone to
    Sainsburys Energy about a £421 overcharge for gas and electricity over
    the last year! That issue was resolved with a £50 goodwill payment.

    I've yet to start drafting the email.

    Report
  4. M-gineering
    Archived post
    #4
    Tom Crispin said:

    The children, realising
    their peril, stopped - then the lights changed, with the bus stuck on
    the wrong side of the road, me and two children across the junction,
    four children and an instructor the other side, and an old lady
    shaking in terror at the schizophrenic behaviour of the bus driver.

    Another bus came in the opposite direction, wanting to turn right into
    the road where the first bus was coming from. Of course he couldn't
    turn into the road - so the jucntion became gridlockled.

    Pure madness.

    Pah, you got it easy, here a busdriver shot a cyclist today!
    (ok, it was a minibus driver, the cyclist was a motorcyclist, and it was
    Amsterdam)

    --
    ---
    Marten

    Report
  5. Paul Rudin
    Archived post
    #5
    Martin Dann said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be libellous

    It's only libellous if it's untrue...

    Report
  6. Tom Crispin
    Archived post
    #6
    Martin Dann said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be libellous

    It's not a private vehicle.

    Report
  7. John B
    Archived post
    #7
    Martin Dann said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be libellous

    As would be reposting it ;-)

    John B

    Report
  8. Marc
    Archived post
    #8

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be libellous

    No it's true that is a 180 bus, who's reg is LF 52 TGN, nothing untrue
    so no libel!

    Report
  9. John Clayton
    Archived post
    #9

    "M-gineering" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Pah, you got it easy, here a busdriver shot a cyclist today!
    (ok, it was a minibus driver, the cyclist was a motorcyclist, and it was
    Amsterdam)

    Quoted message said:

    Marten

    Oh dear, another of my stereotypes destroyed.
    I really imagined "Amsterdammers?" to be a fairly relaxed group of road
    users.
    Never mind, I'll have to be careful there also now.

    --
    John Clayton
    www.calder-clarion.co.uk

    Report
  10. John B
    Archived post
    #10
    John Clayton said:

    "M-gineering" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Pah, you got it easy, here a busdriver shot a cyclist today!
    (ok, it was a minibus driver, the cyclist was a motorcyclist, and it was
    Amsterdam)

    Quoted message said:

    Marten

    Oh dear, another of my stereotypes destroyed.
    I really imagined "Amsterdammers?" to be a fairly relaxed group of road
    users.
    Never mind, I'll have to be careful there also now.

    We've just booked our Christmas break there (where we'll be hring bikes)

    Better dig out the armoured plating and missile launchers.

    John B

    Report
  11. Peter Fox
    Archived post
    #11

    Following on from Martin Dann's message. . .

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be libellous


    Is the WRONG answer.

    There is nothing wrong with accurate naming and shaming. If you're
    going to do it do it properly : Let lots of people know the facts.

    So 10/10 for OP. And a gold star for dealing with the difficult
    situation at the time. That's what good training is about.

    For libel to succeed in law (but that's assuming a real court case
    actually takes place - a lot is posturing and blackmail on costs) it has
    to be
    (a) Defamatory - A person (BTW a company is legally a person) suffers
    harm to their good character as ordinary people might perceive it.
    (b) Untrue
    (c) Not in the public interest

    --
    PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
    [email hidden]
    www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

    Report
  12. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #12
    Peter Fox said:

    Following on from Martin Dann's message. . .

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be libellous


    Is the WRONG answer.

    There is nothing wrong with accurate naming and shaming. If you're
    going to do it do it properly : Let lots of people know the facts.

    So 10/10 for OP. And a gold star for dealing with the difficult
    situation at the time. That's what good training is about.

    For libel to succeed in law (but that's assuming a real court case
    actually takes place - a lot is posturing and blackmail on costs) it has
    to be
    (a) Defamatory - A person (BTW a company is legally a person) suffers
    harm to their good character as ordinary people might perceive it.
    (b) Untrue
    (c) Not in the public interest

    I am sure that the above is in principle correct, however it in
    now my opinion that the Criminal Justice System is
    Institutionaly Motorist and further that a motorist with
    some relevant professional connection e.g. Police driver, taxi
    driver, bus driver has an even further enhanced status.

    A cyclist is pretty much a complete irrelevance
    when compared with the above forces. I would not
    consider ventuing into such a battle. The voters
    want you to lose.

    This is why in cycling a few miles into central London
    you will find that some bus driver will drive straight at you
    every mile or so. They are fireproof and they know it.

    Report
  13. Tom Crispin
    Archived post
    #13
    Quoted message said:

    This is why in cycling a few miles into central London
    you will find that some bus driver will drive straight at you
    every mile or so. They are fireproof and they know it.

    Would it help if I add, 'The overwhelming majority of London bus
    drivers are courteous and seem genuinely pleased to see a group of
    school children learning to cycle safely on the roads.'

    Report
  14. Roos Eisma
    Archived post
    #14
    John Clayton said:

    Oh dear, another of my stereotypes destroyed.
    I really imagined "Amsterdammers?" to be a fairly relaxed group of road
    users.

    You haven't met the taxi drivers then...

    Amsterdam is crowded and that sometimes leads to heated tempers.

    Roos

    Report
  15. P
    Archived post
    #15
    Quoted message said:
    Peter Fox said:

    Following on from Martin Dann's message. . .

    Quoted message said:

    Tom Crispin wrote:


    For libel to succeed in law (but that's assuming a real court case
    actually takes place - a lot is posturing and blackmail on costs)
    <snip>

    I am sure that the above is in principle correct, however it in
    now my opinion that the Criminal Justice System is
    Institutionaly Motorist
    <snip>

    Libel is civil law, not criminal law. It doesn't come under the Criminal
    Justice System. Peters description pretty much agrees with my understanding
    of it.

    Pete.

    Report
  16. M-gineering
    Archived post
    #16
    John B said:


    John Clayton said:

    "M-gineering" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Pah, you got it easy, here a busdriver shot a cyclist today!
    (ok, it was a minibus driver, the cyclist was a motorcyclist, and it was
    Amsterdam)
    Marten


    Oh dear, another of my stereotypes destroyed.
    I really imagined "Amsterdammers?" to be a fairly relaxed group of road
    users.
    Never mind, I'll have to be careful there also now.

    We've just booked our Christmas break there (where we'll be hring bikes)

    Better dig out the armoured plating and missile launchers.

    If it makes you feel better: it was in Amsterdam north, which is not the
    usual tourist destination. Still rather you than me 😉
    --
    ---
    Marten

    Report
  17. John B
    Archived post
    #17
    M-gineering said:
    John B said:
    Quoted message said:

    We've just booked our Christmas break there (where we'll be hring bikes)

    Better dig out the armoured plating and missile launchers.

    If it makes you feel better: it was in Amsterdam north, which is not the
    usual tourist destination. Still rather you than me 😉

    We'll be in Den Haag and Haarlem too.
    Now you'll tell me about the rabid bike devouring rottweilers with radiation
    poisoning ;-)

    John B

    Report
  18. M-gineering
    Archived post
    #18
    John B said:


    M-gineering said:
    John B said:

    We've just booked our Christmas break there (where we'll be hring bikes)

    Better dig out the armoured plating and missile launchers.


    If it makes you feel better: it was in Amsterdam north, which is not the
    usual tourist destination. Still rather you than me 😉

    We'll be in Den Haag and Haarlem too.
    Now you'll tell me about the rabid bike devouring rottweilers with radiation
    poisoning ;-)

    John B

    Nah, you can look them up for yourself 😉:
    http://www.noord-holland.nl/thema/milieu/Veiligheid/Risicokaart/index.asp?x=72&y=44

    (click on the logo to open the (flash) map with all the official risks)

    --
    ---
    Marten

    Report
  19. Paul Boyd
    Archived post
    #19

    John B said the following on 07/12/2006 12:21:

    Quoted message said:

    We'll be in Den Haag and Haarlem too.

    Well, my brother lives in Haarlem, and he reckons that bit at least is
    OK for cycling!

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

    Report
  20. Simon Brooke
    Archived post
    #20

    in message <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann

    (') said:
    Tom Crispin said:

    a 180 bus, reg LF 52 TGN

    You should not post details like this on the internet ;-) could be
    libellous

    No it couldn't, not if it's true.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    Morning had broken, and there was nothing we could do but wait
    patiently for the RAC to arrive.

    Report

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