Blood sugar Test results - need input

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

A single BG test deosn't mean much. You blood sugar levels can be affected
by the time of day, stress, all kinds of things. And "normal" is considered
to be in the 80 - 120 range. I'm very surprised that your doctor didn't
do, or at least suggest, an HbA1c test. This is another blood test that can
determine your average blood glucose levels over the past 90 days, and is a
much more accurate way to determine whether or not you are non- pre- or
diabetic. Maybe you could mention this to your doc?

Before the pharmeceutical companies started making a big profit on drugs
like Metformin for T2 diabetes-- and giving the doctors kickbacks to push
them -- low sugar/low-starch diets were the main means of controlling the
disease. It still works. After I was diagnosed last December as T2, my Dr.
agreed to let me try to control it with diet alone. I've been extremely
successful, completely avoiding medications and keeping my BG levels normal
just by my low-carb way of eating.

Of course, the medications are necessary for many people, and my
understanding is that for those who have lost too many beta cells from
having undiagnosed and uncontrolled diabetes for too long, they may not be
able to control the disease with diet alone. But you won't know until you
have the HbA1c test.

I'm just curious -- if you say you "never had sugar troubles," and your BG
was 84 (perfect) in January, then why are you having blood glucose tests
every few months?

Peter

X-No-Archive: yes

(TasTyMorsL) said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40 a day,
fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new" guidelines
for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

For years, many of the negative reports about Atkins style ketosis
diets have claimed that they increase insulin resistance in otherwise
healthy people and can induce diabetes. That is why I low carb but not
low enough to stay in ketosis. Insulin resistance is one of the main
factors in type 2 diabetes. I have diabetes and my endocrinologist says
that to make my diet too low in carbs will worsen my insulin
resistance, but that reducing carbs without going into ketosis helps me
control my glucose levels.

Verity

"Verity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For years, many of the negative reports about Atkins style ketosis diets
have claimed that they increase insulin resistance in otherwise healthy
people and can induce diabetes.

Verity, do you have any cites for this? 2 pages into a google on "ketosis
insulin resistance" found one website with this assertion, on a purple
background which did not increase its street cred from my POV...

Nicky.

--
HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/81/72
1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

"Verity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For years, many of the negative reports about Atkins style ketosis
diets have claimed that they increase insulin resistance in otherwise
healthy people and can induce diabetes. That is why I low carb but not
low enough to stay in ketosis. Insulin resistance is one of the main
factors in type 2 diabetes. I have diabetes and my endocrinologist says
that to make my diet too low in carbs will worsen my insulin
resistance, but that reducing carbs without going into ketosis helps me
control my glucose levels.

Verity

To quote JC, you're an idiot. Your endocrinologist is an idiot.

Can you repeat the test?

If someone became diabetic while on low carb, they might never show the 200
or 300 readings that high carb diabetics can have. If the doctor gave you a
Blood Glucose meter, you could try carbing up for a few days. A normal
person would still have blood sugar below 100, a diabetic will read much
higher. Be sure to go back to low carb afterwards!

I don't believe low carb causes diabetes. However, statistically, there
will be some people who become diabetic despite being low carb.

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

I'm assuming that the "blood sugar test" you are referring to is a fasting
glucose test. I had a very similar thing happen with my fasting glucose
results after a year and a quarter of stringent low carbing.

Not only did my fasting glucose results rise to between 107-119 mg/dl after
a year of low carbing, but I started regaining weight and feeling exhausted
and drained all the time.

I went to an endocrinologist who tested my fasting c-peptide ( a measure of
insulin production) and corresponding fasting glucose. The result showed
that my insulin resistance was very high despite the fact that my average
carb intake for the year did not rise over 60 grams a day.(My intake was
logged with software and I measured portions too, so I knew exactly what I
had eaten.) I'd also been exercising industriously at the gym almost daily
for a year which should have lowered my IR.

Contrary to what people here assert there is some evidence that prolonged
low carbing can increase insulin resistance for some people. Much of that
research was published back in the 1970s when low carbing got more attention
than it did for the next couple decades, and because the research is old, it
isn't available online.

I am now taking a drug that reduces insulin resistance, metformin. I've also
boosted my carb intake closer to 100 grams a day and I feel a million times
better. Best of all I've lost a couple pounds and am now at a weight that is
very close to my lowest weight attained while stringently low carbing. My
energy level is much better than it is on a lower carb regimen.

My fasting blood sugar has taken a long time to subside but now that I've
gotten my insulin resistance down, it is far more frequently under the 100
level than not.

A friend who follows the research and participates in a lot of diabetes
lists tells me that there seem to be two kinds of people--those who can low
carb for years very happily and those whose bodies don't seem to be able to
sustain the effort. She speculates that it has something to do with the
body's ability to metabolize fats. Some people can metabolize fats very
well, and they can low carb forever feeling great. But people who have some
physiological problem with metabolizing fats (perhaps a problem in the
mitochondria?) run out of steam and see their insulin resistance rise, as I
did. These people may do better raising their carb intake and addressing the
insulin resistance with meds.

There isn't research to address this theory because there is no research
about people who have been low carbing for years as opposed to months. My
friend's conclusions were drawn after observing many discussions among long
term diabetic low carbers.

You might ask your doctor about metformin. It reduces insulin resistance and
makes it far easier to lose weight if you have insulin resistance that
increases with low carbing. I've lost five pounds since starting the
metformin though my current carb intake is closer to 100 grams than the 60 I
was eating while maintaining before taking the drug. My blood sugar is
happier too.

Metformin is appropriate for people with pre-diabetes and some research
suggests it can prevent the onset of diabetes so doctors will prescribe it.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

Before anything else, a repeated test is in order. The #1 culprit in cases
such as yours, is a test error.

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

In article <[email hidden]>,

jk said:

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

Before anything else, a repeated test is in order. The #1 culprit in cases
such as yours, is a test error.

Also, are you on any meds, even OTC ones? Sudafed, for instance, can
bump up one's BG. If you're a woman, take a look at where you are in
your menstrual cycle, too. That can affect it. Other possible factors
-- stress and dehydration. I know when I'm fasting I often forget to
drink water.

Priscilla

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ignoramus25710 said:

TasTyMorsL said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new" guidelines
for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

Um, what were your blood sugars pre-LC? If they "went down" to 84,
weren't they high before?

Good point. This could be natural progression of T2 DM.

Priscilla

In article <[email hidden]>,

marengo said:

A single BG test deosn't mean much.

True.

Quoted message said:

You blood sugar levels can be affected
by the time of day, stress, all kinds of things. And "normal" is considered
to be in the 80 - 120 range.

Well, no. 100-125 on a repeated fasting test is considered
pre-diabetic. It used to be 110-125, but it was recently raised.

Priscilla

TasTyMorsL said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

Is this just one isolated test? Or have you got a meter to test with every
day for a month or so?

Lots of people test their own BG every day at waking, before each meal, 1
and 2 hours after the start of each meal, and at bedtime.

Skinny

Ig,

The metformin totally took care of the problem of carbs making me hungry, as
they would in the past, which I take as a sign that my insulin resistance is
way down.

BTW, I'm taking the slow release ER form. Years ago I tried regular
metformin and it kept driving me low, which was unpleasant to the point of
scariness, soI had to stop taking it.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Ignoramus25710" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:31:31 -0400, Jenny <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am now taking a drug that reduces insulin resistance, metformin. I've

also

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

boosted my carb intake closer to 100 grams a day and I feel a million

times

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

better. Best of all I've lost a couple pounds and am now at a weight

that is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very close to my lowest weight attained while stringently low carbing.

My

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

energy level is much better than it is on a lower carb regimen.

Are you hungrier now on higher carb? Or does metformin cure that?

I am extremely interested in this issue for reasons that are obvious
from my personal and faimly history.

I am very afraid that dieting, while useful to be in good health and
shape etc, for the time being, does not really prevent, perhaps only
postponing a bit, the onset of diabetes. My dad is T2 and my mom is
IFG.

--
223/172.5/180

because my doctor is a promoter of this WOE, and
has been doing bloodwork to monitor my old HBP
& cholesterol levels - as any good doctor would, he
requests a complete panel of tests to watch everything -

thanks to everyone for the help -

marengo said:

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

A single BG test deosn't mean much. You blood sugar levels can be

affected

Quoted message said:

by the time of day, stress, all kinds of things. And "normal" is

considered

Quoted message said:

to be in the 80 - 120 range.

There are a lot of different guidelines going around. One says for 'normal'
the fbg must be under 100.

Quoted message said:

I'm very surprised that your doctor didn't
do, or at least suggest, an HbA1c test. This is another blood test that

can

Quoted message said:

determine your average blood glucose levels over the past 90 days, and is

a

Quoted message said:

much more accurate way to determine whether or not you are non- pre- or
diabetic. Maybe you could mention this to your doc?

There is a HbA1c (also called A1c) home test kit at Walmart for about $20.
They also have a meter and strips for doing one's own BG tests: meter about
$9, strips about $22 for 50. No prescription necessary for either.

They're not hard to use, but a local Diabetes Society will probalby show
you how if you ask.

Many other brands of meters and strips are available, at most pharmacies
and by mailorder.

Skinny

"Ignoramus6961" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:15:43 -0400, Jenny <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ig,

The metformin totally took care of the problem of carbs making me

hungry, as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they would in the past, which I take as a sign that my insulin

resistance is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way down.

sounds good. I am impressed.

I am afraid, although I have no evidence for it, that low carbing is
not the long term answer. If I do not exercise my sugar burning
system, would it not become completely "detrained" due to lack of any
work to do. It is a concern of mine and I do not want anyone to
interpret it as though I was speaking from the position of actual
knowledge.

I think you have a valid reason for thinking insulin response may become
de-trained. It seems all of our other body functions are affected in this
way. I have read that some people have had pains on their right side and
nausea from eating a high fat meal after eating low fat for a long time.
Their bile ducts seem to shrink up and not allow bile to flow, or the bile
dries out and forms stones. They usually have to increase fat very slowly to
get back to the point of normal function.
Other things like muscularity, brain function, and hormone levels, seem
to follow the "use it or lose it" principal. So, I can see how if someone
lo-carbs for a long period of time and suddenly eats a high carb meal, their
insulin may not be able to respond fast enough. Even the process of going
into ketosis seems to take a week or so to kick in gear. My own body didn't
seem to like ketosis for the first couple of weeks. It took about a month to
fully adjust to lo-carb so I could exercise without feeling totally drained.
Some of the newbie posters here in the past have complained of not being
able to find that energized feeling that Atkins' book discribes.
I've heard of bodybuilders that have had hormonal problems after taking
testosterone for lengthy periods. When they stop taking the high doses, it
is found that their own bodies are now producing less than before. I believe
that most of these functions are able to bounce back, especially if you're
young. But, as we age, all functions are reduced. I wonder if there are any
studies that prove if you don't eat carbs you may have trouble bouncing back
the older you get.
People can have joint problems by using their joints too much, or by
under-use. A former athalete may have fewer problems of bouncing back to
good over-all fitness after an extended lay off in old age. A person who
never trained before, would have trouble making small gains in fitness in
the same age category. Even though I haven't read any reports on insulin
resistance due to eating lo-carb for extended periods, I would not be
surprized if a report came out tomorrow saying that this is true.

Tom
210/180/180

Quoted message said:

i

--
223/172.4/180

If you've got about $35, no one has to GIVE you a meter. No prescription
required. Cheap meter and 50 strips for about $35 total at Walmart. They
have the A1c kit too, about $20, also no prescription required.

Power, er, information to the people!

Skinny
spiking at the moment, obviously
-------------

Cubit said:

Can you repeat the test?

If someone became diabetic while on low carb, they might never show the

200

Quoted message said:

or 300 readings that high carb diabetics can have. If the doctor gave

you a

Quoted message said:

Blood Glucose meter, you could try carbing up for a few days. A normal
person would still have blood sugar below 100, a diabetic will read much
higher. Be sure to go back to low carb afterwards!

I don't believe low carb causes diabetes. However, statistically, there
will be some people who become diabetic despite being low carb.

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!

This sounds like a reason for varying the intake, rather than trying to
keep a constant, moderate level of carbs (or of whatever).

As for the longterm effects, what about going, say, 5 months and then
pigging out for a few days? Would that reset the timer, so to speak?

I see posts by athletes who seem to have a system for exploiting the
changes from carb to no-carb, to get energy bursts when they want them.
Sounds interesting, especially since I seem to have a 'dirunal variation'
that lets me eat carbs in the evening, beautiful carbs, without getting
lazy afterwards.

Skinny
------------

Tom said:

"Ignoramus6961" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 19:15:43 -0400, Jenny <[email hidden]>

wrote:

/snip/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am afraid, although I have no evidence for it, that low carbing is
not the long term answer. If I do not exercise my sugar burning
system, would it not become completely "detrained" due to lack of any
work to do. It is a concern of mine and I do not want anyone to
interpret it as though I was speaking from the position of actual
knowledge.

I think you have a valid reason for thinking insulin response may

become

Quoted message said:

de-trained. It seems all of our other body functions are affected in this
way. I have read that some people have had pains on their right side and
nausea from eating a high fat meal after eating low fat for a long time.
Their bile ducts seem to shrink up and not allow bile to flow, or the

bile

Quoted message said:

dries out and forms stones. They usually have to increase fat very slowly

to

Quoted message said:

get back to the point of normal function.
Other things like muscularity, brain function, and hormone levels,

seem

Quoted message said:

to follow the "use it or lose it" principal. So, I can see how if someone
lo-carbs for a long period of time and suddenly eats a high carb meal,

their

Quoted message said:

insulin may not be able to respond fast enough. Even the process of going
into ketosis seems to take a week or so to kick in gear. My own body

didn't

Quoted message said:

seem to like ketosis for the first couple of weeks. It took about a month

to

Quoted message said:

fully adjust to lo-carb so I could exercise without feeling totally

drained.

Quoted message said:

Some of the newbie posters here in the past have complained of not being
able to find that energized feeling that Atkins' book discribes.
I've heard of bodybuilders that have had hormonal problems after

taking

Quoted message said:

testosterone for lengthy periods. When they stop taking the high doses,

it

Quoted message said:

is found that their own bodies are now producing less than before. I

believe

Quoted message said:

that most of these functions are able to bounce back, especially if

you're

Quoted message said:

young. But, as we age, all functions are reduced. I wonder if there are

any

Quoted message said:

studies that prove if you don't eat carbs you may have trouble bouncing

back

Quoted message said:

the older you get.
People can have joint problems by using their joints too much, or by
under-use. A former athalete may have fewer problems of bouncing back to
good over-all fitness after an extended lay off in old age. A person who
never trained before, would have trouble making small gains in fitness in
the same age category. Even though I haven't read any reports on insulin
resistance due to eating lo-carb for extended periods, I would not be
surprized if a report came out tomorrow saying that this is true.

Good point. He should buy a BG meter.

I'm surprised the A1c tester is only $20. The last time I looked at that
they wanted about $50 for the one-test testing material and maybe $200 for
the tester.

"Skinny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you've got about $35, no one has to GIVE you a meter. No prescription
required. Cheap meter and 50 strips for about $35 total at Walmart. They
have the A1c kit too, about $20, also no prescription required.

Power, er, information to the people!

Skinny
spiking at the moment, obviously
-------------

Cubit said:

Can you repeat the test?

If someone became diabetic while on low carb, they might never show the

200

Quoted message said:

or 300 readings that high carb diabetics can have. If the doctor gave

you a

Quoted message said:

Blood Glucose meter, you could try carbing up for a few days. A normal
person would still have blood sugar below 100, a diabetic will read much
higher. Be sure to go back to low carb afterwards!

I don't believe low carb causes diabetes. However, statistically, there
will be some people who become diabetic despite being low carb.

"TasTyMorsL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

been LC for 3years, lost weight, BP and cholesterol all went
to beautiful levers- in January my blood sugar was 84 - last week
it was 104! - doctor was a little puzzled and so was I - - have
not changed anything in my diet- still keep carbs raround 30/40
a day, fasted before the test, NEVER had sugar troubles even before
I did LC - has anyone else seen this or does anyone have any
idea what may cause this? - really puzzled by this as the "new"

guidelines

Quoted message said:

for BG levels say I am "prediabetic"!!