blood pressure

amph said:

Hi,

I recently found that I had, in spite of regularly running, high blood
pressure (107/160). I

immediately quit drinking coffee and I took a lot less salt. To my relieve,
my blood pressure responded right away, dropping to below 80/ 125-135.My
impression is now, however, that when running or during other exercise my
heart rate tends to be higher then before at the same level of effort. On
the one hand, this seems to make sense, because the heart may have to pump
harder to get the blood there, 'helped' by less pressure. On the other hand,
low pressure (that is _normal_ blood pressure) can't be bad for anyone.

What do you guys think.

i think your theory is completely wrong. and i'm not
gonna think about it anymore.

if quitting coffee and taking a lot less salt helped you
this much, keep on doing it. you may be one of
the group of people who are salt sensitive. not
everybody is. the latest thoughts are that 135/80
is still too high. good luck in reducing it further.

you may be aware that one reading means nothing.
so, your high reading may have been an outlyer. i'm in
the same boat as you it seems. i take my blood pressure
at home frequently. i'm trying to reduce my stress load.
i add zero salt and don't eat anything salty. i have 1 cup
of coffee a day. still not a good b.p.

my reading indicates that for most people, the cause will
never be known. there are many chemicals controlling
our b.p. if any go out-of-whack, we're in trouble.

also, blood pressure is systolic over diastolic.
....thehick

What do I think? I think I liked you better, when you had high blood
pressure.

Thanks.

Obviously, by definition, systolic has to be higher then diastolic
(otherwise your blood is not circulating). You're right of course, one
normally says 160/107 but I have the habit of putting it the wrong way
around, perhaps because I tend to worry more about diastolic. I am also
aware that hypertension of many people does not react to lowering salt
intake, which why I was so relieved.

My point is that it seems strange that one feels only weaker after arriving
at a good blood pressure, but perhaps I have to get used to normal pressure.

One thing I wanted to add, I was using frequently Ibuprofen. Never more then
800mg and usually maximally 400 a day. Over a longer period (months) say
200- 300 mg per day. It had good effect, as an inflammation inhibitor, on
several sports injuries. Now I found on Internet that non-steroid
inflammation inhibitors are linked to hypertension especially in people who
already take medicine against hypertension (I don't). I know of the serious
risks of Ibuprofen for runners -especially in combination with not enough
drinking and taking it before a run. I wonder if someone knows about more or
has experience with the Ibu-hypertension link.

Amph

"Ignoramus8911" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

amph said:

Hi,

I recently found that I had, in spite of regularly running, high blood
pressure (107/160). I

This is a strange number. It is usually expressed as higher
number/lower number. Is there a typo somewhere?

Quoted message said:

immediately quit drinking coffee and I took a lot less salt. To my
relieve,
my blood pressure responded right away, dropping to below 80/ 125-135.My
impression is now, however, that when running or during other exercise my
heart rate tends to be higher then before at the same level of effort. On
the one hand, this seems to make sense, because the heart may have to
pump
harder to get the blood there, 'helped' by less pressure. On the other
hand,
low pressure (that is _normal_ blood pressure) can't be bad for anyone.

There are many reasons for high blood pressure, including obesity,
diabetes, salt sensitivity, etc. Many people with hypertension have
"essential hypertension" that does not respond to attempts to address
any of the known causes for hypertension.

i

That's what I have been telling myself.
a

"Miss Anne Thrope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What do I think? I think I liked you better, when you had high blood
pressure.

"Ignoramus8911" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

amph said:

Thanks.

Obviously, by definition, systolic has to be higher then diastolic
(otherwise your blood is not circulating). You're right of course, one
normally says 160/107 but I have the habit of putting it the wrong way
around, perhaps because I tend to worry more about diastolic. I am also
aware that hypertension of many people does not react to lowering salt
intake, which why I was so relieved.

My point is that it seems strange that one feels only weaker after
arriving
at a good blood pressure, but perhaps I have to get used to normal
pressure.

One thing I wanted to add, I was using frequently Ibuprofen. Never more
then
800mg and usually maximally 400 a day. Over a longer period (months) say
200- 300 mg per day. It had good effect, as an inflammation inhibitor, on
several sports injuries. Now I found on Internet that non-steroid
inflammation inhibitors are linked to hypertension especially in people
who
already take medicine against hypertension (I don't). I know of the
serious
risks of Ibuprofen for runners -especially in combination with not enough
drinking and taking it before a run. I wonder if someone knows about more
or
has experience with the Ibu-hypertension link.

From the standpoint of decision making, I would do two things. One is
seek and visit a competent doctor. A doctor will help you decide
whether you need anti-hypertension drugs, which ones, which dose etc.
Another is to address possible causes of your hypertension, such as
arrive at normal weight, stop smoking, stop caffeine, eat less salt,
exercise etc (I am just listing things that are generally useful, you
may be at normal weight or not a smoker or already be exercising etc).

My BP also tends to be on the high side, 125/74 or so. That's given
that I eat relatively little salt, do not drink coffee (but eat
chocolate sometimes, the unsweetened kind), am at normal weight,
exercise etc.

i

Quoted message said:

Amph

"Ignoramus8911" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:21:50 +0100, amph <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently found that I had, in spite of regularly running, high blood
> pressure (107/160). I

This is a strange number. It is usually expressed as higher
number/lower number. Is there a typo somewhere?

> immediately quit drinking coffee and I took a lot less salt. To my
> relieve,
> my blood pressure responded right away, dropping to below 80/
> 125-135.My
> impression is now, however, that when running or during other exercise
> my
> heart rate tends to be higher then before at the same level of effort.
> On
> the one hand, this seems to make sense, because the heart may have to
> pump
> harder to get the blood there, 'helped' by less pressure. On the other
> hand,
> low pressure (that is _normal_ blood pressure) can't be bad for anyone.

There are many reasons for high blood pressure, including obesity,
diabetes, salt sensitivity, etc. Many people with hypertension have
"essential hypertension" that does not respond to attempts to address
any of the known causes for hypertension.

i

--
Running Log: http://igor.chudov.com/weightloss/exercise.txt

Actually I don't believe people who say that 125 / 74 is high blood
pressure. The evidence for that is poor. For my age (I am 51!) I think it
would be excellent. Of course I excercise , otherwise I wouldn't be on this
group. I run 10k still just over 40 min.

[ btw, There is story that chocolate would be favorable for blood pressure.
I don't believe it. This is typically the kind of things the scientists
probably can't reproduce, but only the pleasant story keeps in mind.]
a

amph said:

I recently found that I had,in spite of regularly running,high blood
pressure (107/160). I

160/107 is critical hypertension that will be exacerbated with exercise
to levels that can be detrimental to major organs (i.e. brain, kidneys)
and possibly cause tearing of your greater vessels (i.e. aorta). The
question we must ask; is how long have this been going on and how much,
if any, damage has been done. You will need to update your doctor on
your resent BP elevations and he may give you a complete physical with
labs, if not done recently. The new healthy BP level are BOTH below
120/80.

Quoted message said:

800mg and usually maximally 400 a day.Over a longer period(months)say
200-300 mg per day. It had good effect,as an inflammation inhibitor,
several sports injuries. Now I found on Internet that non-steroid

Amph why are you running till injury and adding drugs that product ill
health? You may need to see a Sport Medicine Dr also or at lease change
to low impact sports for a year or two(i.e. cycling, Precor
elliptical). You need to look up sport gurus that have died in the
illusion that all you need is exercise for health such as Brian Maxwell
(Powerbar inventor), Dr David Bruke (biker and sports writer) or Fixx
etc.
http://www.roadbikerider.com/yourturn2.htm
http://www.tourdefrancenews.com/article/0,3253,s1-6843-P,00.html?category_id=363

When you need professional medical advice and decide to treat yourself
as the client, it has the same results as those representing themselves
in legal issues. Try running to your Dr with a real name and profession
instead of cyberspace with anonymous emailers or 12 year olds giving
advice and it may be the smartest run you did in a while.

CU. Mike.-

Mike,

What you're saying is of course all true, but I'm well aware that I should
take everything from Internet with a grain of salt (no pun intended).
Actually, I heard independently of two MD's whom I know superficially and
who are both keen runners themselves that ibuprofen was not a bad idea to
use against damage from inflammation. Only one of them warned against the
potentially fatal risks of a combination of ibu + dehydration. This is why I
never take it before running, although I know that many people do.
Apparently, ibu shuts of blood supply to the kidneys (partly of course),
which respond with making a hormone that increases blood pressure.

I sometimes put things in newsgroups because frequently people come up with
good insights and interesting link. On average 65% are things I knew
already, 30% are morons, (less in this newsgroup) 5% give interesting links,
like yourself. I think I know an anonymous moron or a 12-year old when I see
one. There was only one in this group (as a matter of fact, a 12-year old
moron). It is funny that many people (also in another running group) get
upset because I write 80/120 instead of 120/80. There can't be any
misunderstanding because by definition only one value (systolic) can be
higher.

You are completely right to warn against believing anything from the
Internet.

One has also to be careful with the MD's. The example I gave shows that one
of them must have been giving poor advice.

Best wishes,

Amphioxus

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

amph said:

I recently found that I had,in spite of regularly running,high blood
pressure (107/160). I

160/107 is critical hypertension that will be exacerbated with exercise
to levels that can be detrimental to major organs (i.e. brain, kidneys)
and possibly cause tearing of your greater vessels (i.e. aorta). The
question we must ask; is how long have this been going on and how much,
if any, damage has been done. You will need to update your doctor on
your resent BP elevations and he may give you a complete physical with
labs, if not done recently. The new healthy BP level are BOTH below
120/80.

Quoted message said:

800mg and usually maximally 400 a day.Over a longer period(months)say
200-300 mg per day. It had good effect,as an inflammation inhibitor,
several sports injuries. Now I found on Internet that non-steroid

Amph why are you running till injury and adding drugs that product ill
health? You may need to see a Sport Medicine Dr also or at lease change
to low impact sports for a year or two(i.e. cycling, Precor
elliptical). You need to look up sport gurus that have died in the
illusion that all you need is exercise for health such as Brian Maxwell
(Powerbar inventor), Dr David Bruke (biker and sports writer) or Fixx
etc.
http://www.roadbikerider.com/yourturn2.htm
http://www.tourdefrancenews.com/article/0,3253,s1-6843-P,00.html?category_id=363

When you need professional medical advice and decide to treat yourself
as the client, it has the same results as those representing themselves
in legal issues. Try running to your Dr with a real name and profession
instead of cyberspace with anonymous emailers or 12 year olds giving
advice and it may be the smartest run you did in a while.

CU. Mike.-

Quoted message said:

From the standpoint of decision making, I would do two things. One is
seek and visit a competent doctor.

Agree!

Quoted message said:

My BP also tends to be on the high side, 125/74 or so.

That's a beautiful blood pressure, not high at all. Keep it right there
and you'll minimize your risk for stroke, heart disease, kidney disease,
and more.
-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

amph said:

One thing I wanted to add, I was using frequently Ibuprofen. Never more then
800mg and usually maximally 400 a day. Over a longer period (months) say
200- 300 mg per day.

Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, like
aspirin, naproxen, diclofenac, sulindac, ketoprofen, celebrex, vioxx,
etc.) do have the potential to raise BP in some people. I've seen some
people completely unaffected, others very strongly affected.

I always ask for easy but less appreciated contributions to high BP when
I first see a hypertensive patient, simple things like alcohol (raises
BP in some), cough/cold decongestants (sudafed and the like really crank
up the BP), NSAIDs, as examples.

Just had a new young woman patient last week with high blood pressure
and headache. She thought it was sinus head pain, so she took sudafed
decongestant and ibuprofen. I suspected it was the meds causing the
high BP which in turn caused the headache (I explored other
possibilities before coming to this conclusion). So we stopped the
sudafed and switched any pain reliever like ibuprofen to tylenol. Her
BP magically came down to normal and her headache went away. Addition
by subtraction!

Anyway, yes, some people are sensitive to NSAIDs and have BP go up on
them. Others are fine. There are plenty of good reasons to avoid
NSAIDs (and medicines in general) besides this one, but they are good
painkillers, so the balance of benefit and harm is worth talking over
with your doctor if you are concerned.

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

"Joshua Steinberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1108911029.321d763485125e99bb61caa176998c20@teranews...

Quoted message said:

amph said:

One thing I wanted to add, I was using frequently Ibuprofen. Never more
then 800mg and usually maximally 400 a day. Over a longer period (months)
say 200- 300 mg per day.

Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, like
aspirin, naproxen, diclofenac, sulindac, ketoprofen, celebrex, vioxx,
etc.) do have the potential to raise BP in some people. I've seen some
people completely unaffected, others very strongly affected.

I always ask for easy but less appreciated contributions to high BP when I
first see a hypertensive patient, simple things like alcohol (raises BP in
some), cough/cold decongestants (sudafed and the like really crank up the
BP), NSAIDs, as examples.

Just had a new young woman patient last week with high blood pressure and
headache. She thought it was sinus head pain, so she took sudafed
decongestant and ibuprofen. I suspected it was the meds causing the high
BP which in turn caused the headache (I explored other possibilities
before coming to this conclusion). So we stopped the sudafed and switched
any pain reliever like ibuprofen to tylenol. Her BP magically came down
to normal and her headache went away. Addition by subtraction!

Anyway, yes, some people are sensitive to NSAIDs and have BP go up on
them. Others are fine. There are plenty of good reasons to avoid NSAIDs
(and medicines in general) besides this one, but they are good
painkillers, so the balance of benefit and harm is worth talking over with
your doctor if you are concerned.

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

Thanks for this very informative post. I heard from an MD I know
superficially that the combination of dehydration and Ibuprofen can be
literally a killer. This is why I never took it before a run. Also I did not
take Ibu against pain (I am not squeamish about it), but to prevent damage
due to inflammation.
BTW, what do you think of a heart rate of 174 during a run for a 51-year old
if you know the this 51-year old (me, of course) has had similar figures
since about 25 years during exercise.
A.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

amph said:

I recently found that I had,in spite of regularly running,high blood
pressure (107/160). I

160/107 is critical hypertension that will be exacerbated with exercise
to levels that can be detrimental to major organs (i.e. brain, kidneys)
and possibly cause tearing of your greater vessels (i.e. aorta). The
question we must ask; is how long have this been going on and how much,
if any, damage has been done. You will need to update your doctor on
your resent BP elevations and he may give you a complete physical with
labs, if not done recently. The new healthy BP level are BOTH below
120/80.

Quoted message said:

800mg and usually maximally 400 a day.Over a longer period(months)say
200-300 mg per day. It had good effect,as an inflammation inhibitor,
several sports injuries. Now I found on Internet that non-steroid

Amph why are you running till injury and adding drugs that product ill
health? You may need to see a Sport Medicine Dr also or at lease change
to low impact sports for a year or two(i.e. cycling, Precor
elliptical). You need to look up sport gurus that have died in the
illusion that all you need is exercise for health such as Brian Maxwell
(Powerbar inventor), Dr David Bruke (biker and sports writer) or Fixx
etc.
http://www.roadbikerider.com/yourturn2.htm
http://www.tourdefrancenews.com/article/0,3253,s1-6843-P,00.html?category_id=363

When you need professional medical advice and decide to treat yourself
as the client, it has the same results as those representing themselves
in legal issues. Try running to your Dr with a real name and profession
instead of cyberspace with anonymous emailers or 12 year olds giving
advice and it may be the smartest run you did in a while.

CU. Mike.-

I looked up some stories about Maxwell and Burke on the Internet.

Burke:
On November 7, 2002, famed cycling physiologist and author Ed Burke died of
a heart attack while on a climb during a noon ride. He was 53. He was also
our friend for 25 years.
In newsletters No. 69 and 70, we reported that Ed had a family history of
heart problems and was battling high blood pressure and cholesterol.

Maxwell
Nobody's suggesting that Brian Maxwell died of running. One of his close
friends, runner Mike Fanelli, told a chat group on LetsRun.com that Brian's
father died young. "If you have serious heart disease in your genes, it
doesn't matter how physically fit you are or how healthy you eat," he said.
"You can only extend the time you have; can't beat it." I don't really want
to take the cork out of that bottle, but any aging runner will tell you the
hill gets steeper the older you get.

Fixx:
I don't have the details at hand, but we all know that both his parents from
heart disease. One died at such a low age that it could not have been only
the Hamburgers and HotDogs. It was in his genes, andhis 51 (or 53?) was good
for his backgound and someone who ate very unwise until ~30 and was then
very overweight.

My point: if you have 'a family history' it is a totally different ballpark.
Amphioxus

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:18:16 +0100, "amphioxus" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for this very informative post. I heard from an MD I know
superficially that the combination of dehydration and Ibuprofen can be
literally a killer. This is why I never took it before a run. Also I did not
take Ibu against pain (I am not squeamish about it), but to prevent damage
due to inflammation.
BTW, what do you think of a heart rate of 174 during a run for a 51-year old
if you know the this 51-year old (me, of course) has had similar figures
since about 25 years during exercise.

well, i'm not a doc but am 53. I let my heart rate go up to the
mid 170s sometimes but usually my training is around 150.
During a race, i don't check.

i am planning to have a stress test this spring to see if there
are any hidden problems.

i also take ibu for inflammation, but let's not kid ourselves,
our body doesn't care for our reason. so i take only
what seems to be OK for most people (my one and
only marathon i took 2 X 400mg tablets). and i'm
very careful not to dehydrate.
....thehick

amphioxus said:

"Joshua Steinberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1108911029.321d763485125e99bb61caa176998c20@teranews...

Quoted message said:

amph said:

One thing I wanted to add, I was using frequently Ibuprofen. Never more
then 800mg and usually maximally 400 a day. Over a longer period (months)
say 200- 300 mg per day.

Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs (non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, like
aspirin, naproxen, diclofenac, sulindac, ketoprofen, celebrex, vioxx,
etc.) do have the potential to raise BP in some people. I've seen some
people completely unaffected, others very strongly affected.

I always ask for easy but less appreciated contributions to high BP when I
first see a hypertensive patient, simple things like alcohol (raises BP in
some), cough/cold decongestants (sudafed and the like really crank up the
BP), NSAIDs, as examples.

Just had a new young woman patient last week with high blood pressure and
headache. She thought it was sinus head pain, so she took sudafed
decongestant and ibuprofen. I suspected it was the meds causing the high
BP which in turn caused the headache (I explored other possibilities
before coming to this conclusion). So we stopped the sudafed and switched
any pain reliever like ibuprofen to tylenol. Her BP magically came down
to normal and her headache went away. Addition by subtraction!

Anyway, yes, some people are sensitive to NSAIDs and have BP go up on
them. Others are fine. There are plenty of good reasons to avoid NSAIDs
(and medicines in general) besides this one, but they are good
painkillers, so the balance of benefit and harm is worth talking over with
your doctor if you are concerned.

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

Thanks for this very informative post. I heard from an MD I know
superficially that the combination of dehydration and Ibuprofen can be
literally a killer. This is why I never took it before a run. Also I did not
take Ibu against pain (I am not squeamish about it), but to prevent damage
due to inflammation.

If you have an injury or injuries you should try
RICE before pain meds. You should never take them
before running or in order to exercise. IMO unless
you have serious pain from arthritis etc you are
living dangerously to take pain meds in the stated
dosages every day.

The good MD here failed to mention that another effect
ibuprophen can have (i.e., is proven to have...) when
used for months on a daily basis is the need for a
kidney transplant...

frank-in-toronto said:

amph said:

Hi,

I recently found that I had, in spite of regularly running, high blood
pressure (107/160). I

immediately quit drinking coffee and I took a lot less salt. To my relieve,
my blood pressure responded right away, dropping to below 80/ 125-135.My
impression is now, however, that when running or during other exercise my
heart rate tends to be higher then before at the same level of effort. On
the one hand, this seems to make sense, because the heart may have to pump
harder to get the blood there, 'helped' by less pressure. On the other hand,
low pressure (that is _normal_ blood pressure) can't be bad for anyone.

What do you guys think.

i think your theory is completely wrong. and i'm not
gonna think about it anymore.

if quitting coffee and taking a lot less salt helped you
this much, keep on doing it. you may be one of
the group of people who are salt sensitive. not
everybody is. the latest thoughts are that 135/80
is still too high. good luck in reducing it further.

you may be aware that one reading means nothing.
so, your high reading may have been an outlyer. i'm in
the same boat as you it seems. i take my blood pressure
at home frequently. i'm trying to reduce my stress load.
i add zero salt and don't eat anything salty. i have 1 cup
of coffee a day. still not a good b.p.

Caffeine raises blood pressure and coffee is loaded with it...

Tom Phillips said:

If you have an injury or injuries you should try
RICE before pain meds. You should never take them
before running or in order to exercise. IMO unless
you have serious pain from arthritis etc you are
living dangerously to take pain meds in the stated
dosages every day.

Agree 100%. If you are taking pain killers every day to enable your
exercise, you should ask yourself if you are ignoring a problem by
masking the pain. Maybe not, but maybe. My favorite anti-inflammatory
pain reliever is ICE. By far most effective anti-inflammatory pain
killer I know, it has no side effects, no toxicity, and it's dirt cheap!

Quoted message said:

The good MD here failed to mention that another effect
ibuprophen can have (i.e., is proven to have...) when
used for months on a daily basis is the need for a
kidney transplant...

No need to scare people. Yes, the other toxicity from NSAIDs besides
the biggie of stomach ulcers & GI hemorrhage (110,000 per year) and BP
elevation in some is kidney damage. But that is a rare consequence,
thank heavens. Interstitial nephritis from Ibuprofen certainly happens,
but not from months of daily use. How much and how long will lead you
to transplant and dialysis? I have no idea.

But the bottom line is to be careful and reluctant to put any chemicals
or medicines in your body!

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

Dateline once outfitted several people with continuous BP sensors
for a whole day. It cat vary 30,40 points over the course of a day-
stress, exercise, eating, temporarily raise the pressure.
If your measurementsd are self-measurements, you could very
likely be doing them wrong.

And on top of all that has been quite correctly said thus far, let us
not forget that NASAIDs block the receptor sites for that little 81mg
asprin that has proven to be very pretty effective at lowering one's
risk for heart attacks. Personaly I'd rather have a little acky braky
pain than have someone pounding my chest, while someone else is
screaming "CLEAR"

Josh, please tell me that beer doesn't count a chemical!

Joshua Steinberg said:

Tom Phillips said:

If you have an injury or injuries you should try
RICE before pain meds. You should never take them
before running or in order to exercise. IMO unless
you have serious pain from arthritis etc you are
living dangerously to take pain meds in the stated
dosages every day.

Agree 100%. If you are taking pain killers every day to enable your
exercise, you should ask yourself if you are ignoring a problem by
masking the pain. Maybe not, but maybe. My favorite anti-inflammatory
pain reliever is ICE. By far most effective anti-inflammatory pain
killer I know, it has no side effects, no toxicity, and it's dirt cheap!

Quoted message said:

The good MD here failed to mention that another effect
ibuprophen can have (i.e., is proven to have...) when
used for months on a daily basis is the need for a
kidney transplant...

No need to scare people. Yes, the other toxicity from NSAIDs besides
the biggie of stomach ulcers & GI hemorrhage (110,000 per year) and BP
elevation in some is kidney damage. But that is a rare consequence,
thank heavens. Interstitial nephritis from Ibuprofen certainly happens,
but not from months of daily use. How much and how long will lead you
to transplant and dialysis? I have no idea.

But the bottom line is to be careful and reluctant to put any chemicals
or medicines in your body!

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

I thought aspirin _is_ an NSAID?!

"Bumper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And on top of all that has been quite correctly said thus far, let us
not forget that NASAIDs block the receptor sites for that little 81mg
asprin that has proven to be very pretty effective at lowering one's
risk for heart attacks. Personaly I'd rather have a little acky braky
pain than have someone pounding my chest, while someone else is
screaming "CLEAR"

Josh, please tell me that beer doesn't count a chemical!

Joshua Steinberg said:

Tom Phillips said:

If you have an injury or injuries you should try
RICE before pain meds. You should never take them
before running or in order to exercise. IMO unless
you have serious pain from arthritis etc you are
living dangerously to take pain meds in the stated
dosages every day.

Agree 100%. If you are taking pain killers every day to enable your
exercise, you should ask yourself if you are ignoring a problem by
masking the pain. Maybe not, but maybe. My favorite anti-inflammatory
pain reliever is ICE. By far most effective anti-inflammatory pain
killer I know, it has no side effects, no toxicity, and it's dirt cheap!

Quoted message said:

The good MD here failed to mention that another effect
ibuprophen can have (i.e., is proven to have...) when
used for months on a daily basis is the need for a
kidney transplant...

No need to scare people. Yes, the other toxicity from NSAIDs besides
the biggie of stomach ulcers & GI hemorrhage (110,000 per year) and BP
elevation in some is kidney damage. But that is a rare consequence,
thank heavens. Interstitial nephritis from Ibuprofen certainly happens,
but not from months of daily use. How much and how long will lead you
to transplant and dialysis? I have no idea.

But the bottom line is to be careful and reluctant to put any chemicals
or medicines in your body!

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse

Joshua Steinberg said:

Tom Phillips said:

If you have an injury or injuries you should try
RICE before pain meds. You should never take them
before running or in order to exercise. IMO unless
you have serious pain from arthritis etc you are
living dangerously to take pain meds in the stated
dosages every day.

Agree 100%. If you are taking pain killers every day to enable your
exercise, you should ask yourself if you are ignoring a problem by
masking the pain. Maybe not, but maybe. My favorite anti-inflammatory
pain reliever is ICE. By far most effective anti-inflammatory pain
killer I know, it has no side effects, no toxicity, and it's dirt cheap!

Course the OP didn't say what his injuries were,
but if running causes problems so serious he needs
that much pain med I'd suggest he try swimming
instead. Maybe cold water endurance swimming?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The good MD here failed to mention that another effect
ibuprophen can have (i.e., is proven to have...) when
used for months on a daily basis is the need for a
kidney transplant...

No need to scare people. Yes, the other toxicity from NSAIDs besides
the biggie of stomach ulcers & GI hemorrhage (110,000 per year) and BP
elevation in some is kidney damage. But that is a rare consequence,
thank heavens. Interstitial nephritis from Ibuprofen certainly happens,
but not from months of daily use. How much and how long will lead you
to transplant and dialysis? I have no idea.

Honestly I think people should be scared since over
the counter drug abuse is pretty common and drug
companies do little to educate. I don't have the
articles handy (a newspaper series), but there was at
least one well known case where a basketball player
whose trainers had him on ibuprophen daily for several
months so he could play ended up needing a new kidney.
800mg ibuprophen is a prescription dose and even 400mg
isn't something I'd take on a regular basis. There's
also been publicized cases of serious liver damage from
exceeding safe tylenol/acetaminophen dosages.

Quoted message said:

But the bottom line is to be careful and reluctant to put any chemicals
or medicines in your body!

Not exactly Timothy Leary's philosophy :^) Or generally
western medicine's...

Quoted message said:

-- Josh Steinberg MD, Syracuse