Blockages....How Many x's

In article said:

I was wondering if re-blocked arteries is a big problem for other
people. It sure is for me...big time.Please share your experiences
with me about repeat blockages. I have a good , strong heart...which
is being chocked off because of blocked veins and arteries. I could
die because my good heart can't get feed. I just need to share with
others on this subject. Please and thanx, Bogie

I have had bypass surgery twice. 1989 and 1998. I have one bypass
that has closed now but supposedly have grown collateray veins in my
heart that compensate. I have pain in my throat on exertion and it literally
scares me half to death. I take handfulls of medication morning and night.
There are a lot of people in the same circumstance. I am in the process of
going on the Ornish diet. It sure can't hurt.

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:27:13 GMT in article

(GS) said:

I am in the process of
going on the Ornish diet. It sure can't hurt.

I wouldn't be too sure about it. There are mixed opinions about very-low-
fat high-carb diet like Ornish's. For some people it may suit, but in some
others it may cause the conversion of large LDL particles into smaller
more atherogenic LDL particles. And it's very difficult to follow.

Concepts and Controversies on Diet: Stop Recommending Low-Fat Diets!
Walter C Willett, MD, DrPH
Kaiser Permanente Permanente Journal, September 2003
http://www.countcarbs.com/research/stoprecommendinglowfat.htm

Fats and Cholesterol - The Good, The Bad, and The Healthy Diet.
Harvard School of Public Health Nutrition Source.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html

Carbohydrates.
Harvard School of Public Health Nutrition Source.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates.html

Extreme low-fat diets can increase heart disease risk for some
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/extremediet-patternb.html

Dreon DM, Fernstrom HA, Williams PT, Krauss RM.
Reduced LDL particle size in children consuming a very-low-fat diet is
related to parental LDL-subclass patterns.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Jun;71(6):1611-6.
PMID: 10837306 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/6/1611> (full text)
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=10837306&dopt=Abstract>

An alternative could be low-carb diet in the form, where fat content
consists mainly of monounsaturated (sources: extra virgin olive oil,
almonds, avocados) and omega-3 (sources: fish, fish oil, ground flaxseed)
fatty acids.

As an example of the effect of a low-carb diet on the lipid profile and
potentially also on the LDL particle size (for a subpopulation of people)
see for example

Sharman MJ, Kraemer WJ, Love DM, Avery NG, Gomez AL, Scheett TP, Volek JS.
A ketogenic diet favorably affects serum biomarkers for cardiovascular
disease in normal-weight men.
J Nutr. 2002 Jul;132(7):1879-85.
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/7/1879 (full text)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12097663&dopt=Abstract

In this study low carb diet seemed to have surprisingly favorable effect
on some CVD risk factors, it even increased the size of LDL particles. In
contrast the authors clam that

"Numerous studies now suggest that high-carbohydrate diets can raise
TAG levels, create small, dense LDL particles, and reduce HDL
cholesterol (i.e., atherogenic dyslipidemia)—a combination along with
insulin resistance, that has been termed syndrome X (42 ,43 )."

[...]

"... In subjects with a predominance of small LDL particles
pattern B, there were significant increases in mean and peak LDL
particle diameter and the percentage of LDL-1 after the ketogenic
diet. ..."

If one is not overweight, IMHO one may not have to go through the ketosis
phase. Carb "dose" of 100 g/d or more will prevent ketosis.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Blockages....How Many x's
From: [email hidden] (Bogie)
Date: 11/24/2003 7:49 AM Mountain Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

I was wondering if re-blocked arteries is a big problem for other
people. It sure is for me...big time.Please share your experiences
with me about repeat blockages. I have a good , strong heart...which
is being chocked off because of blocked veins and arteries. I could
die because my good heart can't get feed. I just need to share with
others on this subject. Please and thanx, Bogie

I would do a bit of study of the research of lecithin and its' ability to
actually OPEN up the blockages in animal models.

Br J Exp Pathol 1985 Feb;66(1):35-46

Hyperlipoproteinaemia and atherosclerosis in rabbits fed low-level cholesterol
and lecithin.

Hunt CE, Duncan LA
Dutch-Belted rabbits were fed for 18 months an atherogenic semipurified gel
diet containing 14% hydrogenated coconut oil and 0.06% cholesterol
(approximately 0.15 mg/kcal) or a non-atherogenic basal gel diet containing the
same ingredients but with no coconut oil or cholesterol. Rabbits fed
atherogenic diet developed hypercholesterolaemia (means 733 mg/dl at 16 months)
and plasma lipoprotein (LP) distribution shifted from a pattern in which
high-density lipoproteins (HDL) predominated to one in which very-low-density
lipoproteins (VLDL) were predominant. Total cholesterol/triglyceride ratio in d
less than 1.006 LP changed from 0.3 to 1.8. Plasma cholesterol and LP
distribution returned to normal in rabbits fed atherogenic diet for 18 months
followed by atherogenic diet plus 3% soya lecithin for an additional 4 months.
Rabbits fed atherogenic diet for 18 months had extensive, usually full
circumference fibromuscular plaques in main branches of coronary arteries and
all portions of aorta which compromised lumen area by almost 50%. These lesions
were modified in rabbits fed atherogenic diet plus lecithin. The plaques lacked
foam cells and cholesterol clefts, were less cellular with a distinct fibrous
surface and occupied less space. Animals fed basal diet did not develop
hypercholesterolaemia (means 86 mg/dl at 16 months), although distribution of
plasma LP shifted slightly in favour of increased low-density lipoproteins
(LDL) and decreased HDL compared with rabbits fed standard commercial diet.
Basal diet rabbits had no coronary atherosclerosis and only minimal focal foam
cell lesions in proximal aorta. Liver injury including fatty change,
cholangitis and portal fibrosis occurred in animals fed atherogenic diet. Thus,
rabbits fed appropriate diets low in cholesterol accumulate
cholesterol-enriched LP in their plasma and develop lesions in abdominal aorta
and main branches of coronary arteries which are similar to those in man. Also,
in this experimental model, dietary lecithin promotes a return to normal of the
LP distribution profile and removal of lipid from established atherosclerotic
plaque.

PMID: 3970829, UI: 85122459

----------------------------------------------

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Bogie said:

I was wondering if re-blocked arteries is a big problem for other
people. It sure is for me...big time.Please share your experiences
with me about repeat blockages. I have a good , strong heart...which
is being chocked off because of blocked veins and arteries. I could
die because my good heart can't get feed. I just need to share with
others on this subject. Please and thanx, Bogie

Would suggest that you ask your cardiologist(s) about a trial of ECP
(external counterpulsation).

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

It's quite common and called "restenosis." A man my age (55) who
works on my floor has had repeated re-blockages. His docs told him if
he doesn't watch his diet he may live 10 yrs, otherwise 20 yrs. There
are new stents avail that are supposed to prevent restenosis.

[email hidden] (Bogie) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was wondering if re-blocked arteries is a big problem for other
people. It sure is for me...big time.Please share your experiences
with me about repeat blockages. I have a good , strong heart...which
is being chocked off because of blocked veins and arteries. I could
die because my good heart can't get feed. I just need to share with
others on this subject. Please and thanx, Bogie

Matti Narkia said:

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:27:13 GMT in article

(GS) said:

I am in the process of
going on the Ornish diet. It sure can't hurt.

I wouldn't be too sure about it. There are mixed opinions about very-low-
fat high-carb diet like Ornish's. For some people it may suit, but in some
others it may cause the conversion of large LDL particles into smaller
more atherogenic LDL particles. And it's very difficult to follow.

And, I wouldn't be too sure about low-carb diets (or high-oil diets) either. Hyperketonemia remains a
concern per earlier discussions (see Google).

Imho, better to moderate intake and lose weight under your doctor's supervision (if you are overweight)
using something like the 2PD approach (ask your doctor about it):

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Being that I have been doing this for 5 years, I can personally assure you of its safety firsthand.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Thanx for the info. Yours lasted the "text book" 10 yrs. Where did
they graft more veins from? Your other leg?. I had my bypass on 12SE03
and just found out on 20NO03 that 2 of the 4 are 100% blocked from
scar tissue. There has to be something we can do to prevent/slow this
nasty process down. Lets put our recources together and find something
that works....PLEASE. Just knowing that there are others out there,
who share the same hell, is sort of a comfort. Keep the exchange
rolling. Please and thanx, Bogie

[email hidden] (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It's quite common and called "restenosis." A man my age (55) who
works on my floor has had repeated re-blockages. His docs told him if
he doesn't watch his diet he may live 10 yrs, otherwise 20 yrs. There
are new stents avail that are supposed to prevent restenosis.

Yup....thats what they call it. I'm 46 yrs old(Male). I have 6 stents

and than I had a bypass(quad) on 12SE03. 2 months and 11 days later
they told me 2 out of the 4 are blocked....100%. The cardio tried from
every angle to get into any vein he could...no dice. They gave me the
med Rapamune 2mg tab, for 3 months hoping that it would stop that darn
scar tissue from chocking me. If my scar tissue works that
fast........do I have 10 yrs?????????I'm now in the process of getting
a second opinion from the Clevld Clnc in OH, via e-mail.I still wanna
hear what others have to say...let it roll. Please and thanx, Bogie

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:40:17 -0500 in article
<[email hidden]> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Imho, better to moderate intake and lose weight under your doctor's supervision (if you are overweight)
using something like the 2PD approach (ask your doctor about it):

Two comments. First, why are you pushing your oversimplistic "any food
goes" 2PD weight-loss diet to heart disease patients without giving any
advice about the choice of suitable food items and without even knowing
whether they are overweight or not? Secondly, why on earth do you think
that the patient's doctor has ever heard of your 2PD diet?

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:40:17 -0500 in article
<[email hidden]> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Imho, better to moderate intake and lose weight under your doctor's supervision (if you are overweight)
using something like the 2PD approach (ask your doctor about it):

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Being that I have been doing this for 5 years, I can personally assure you of its safety firsthand.

How can you guarantee it's safety, when you don't give advice on the
choice of food items and have no control and most likely even no knowledge
of the patient's food choices?

Matti Narkia <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:40:17 -0500 in article
<[email hidden]> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Imho, better to moderate intake and lose weight under your doctor's supervision (if you are overweight)
using something like the 2PD approach (ask your doctor about it):

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Being that I have been doing this for 5 years, I can personally assure you of its safety firsthand.

How can you guarantee it's safety, when you don't give advice on the
choice of food items and have no control and most likely even no knowledge
of the patient's food choices?

It is because the 2PD approach does not alter what people are already
accustomed to eating that it is easy for me to give folks that
personal assurance. Their doctors' supervision makes the 2PD approach
that much safer.

Truth is that simple.

God's humble bond-servant,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Matti Narkia said:

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:40:17 -0500 in article
<[email hidden]> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

Imho, better to moderate intake and lose weight under your doctor's supervision (if you are overweight)
using something like the 2PD approach (ask your doctor about it):

Two comments. First, why are you pushing your oversimplistic "any food
goes" 2PD weight-loss diet to heart disease patients without giving any
advice about the choice of suitable food items

Heart disease patients come to me typically following AHA guidelines for a low fat/cholesterol diet.

If they are overweight, I give instructions to dovetail the 2PD approach with what they are currently doing.

Why do this? Because it is the only approach that brings about lasting weight loss in my experience with
the promise of lifelong adherence.

Quoted message said:

and without even knowing
whether they are overweight or not?

Knowing a patient's weight is part of the physical examination. It is understandable with your not being a
doctor, that you wouldn't know this.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, why on earth do you think
that the patient's doctor has ever heard of your 2PD diet?

Because it has been in the public domain for more than a few years now.

God's humble bond-servant,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Matti Narkia said:

Secondly, why on earth do you think
that the patient's doctor has ever heard of your 2PD diet?

Because it has been in the public domain for more than a few years now.

?????????

No publication. No papers. No peer-reviewed presentations. No
scientific documentation. No agreement with prevailing nutritional
concepts. No documented case histories. No statistical data provided.
Just spamming and trolling newsgroups as the media of dissemination of
the scant and ludicrous "information" about it.

The Dean Drive has been in the "public domain" for years, too. By the
way, someone please explain to Chung what "public domain" means and
how irrelevant to his silly diet the legal concept is.

Pastorio

Bogie,

Sorry for your situation. In your case I don't know if you can live
10 years. The Cleveland Clinic is an excellent place. In your shoes
( besides following meds my doc prescribes) I would try a very heart
friendly diet. I'd follow
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html but take it
to an extreme - eating no foods except ones healthy for the heart.
Have you asked about Niaspan? In some cases blockages can be
reversed. See http://www.niaspan.com/templates/hcp.asp?class=2&page=2
Keep fighting!

[email hidden] (Bogie) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

It's quite common and called "restenosis." A man my age (55) who
works on my floor has had repeated re-blockages. His docs told him if
he doesn't watch his diet he may live 10 yrs, otherwise 20 yrs. There
are new stents avail that are supposed to prevent restenosis.

Yup....thats what they call it. I'm 46 yrs old(Male). I have 6 stents

and than I had a bypass(quad) on 12SE03. 2 months and 11 days later
they told me 2 out of the 4 are blocked....100%. The cardio tried from
every angle to get into any vein he could...no dice. They gave me the
med Rapamune 2mg tab, for 3 months hoping that it would stop that darn
scar tissue from chocking me. If my scar tissue works that
fast........do I have 10 yrs?????????I'm now in the process of getting
a second opinion from the Clevld Clnc in OH, via e-mail.I still wanna
hear what others have to say...let it roll. Please and thanx, Bogie

Thanx for all the input so far. I really don't know much about the
diet you speak of. I was wondering if anyone has any scar tissue build
up on their chest incision? 3/4's of mine looks normal, the bottom
(near belly button) is the widest part. It's got extra tissue built up
there. Scar tissue. The cardio said that what I see on the outside, is
what's going on the inside too. I will look back through and check out
the diet that was mentioned. I will also look around to find the
benefits of the supplement that was posted. When I go see the sourgen
next week, I will want to dicuss my options for the future. If 2 out
of my 4 bypasses are closed, do I have another bypass in my near
future. If they use the med Rapamune, along with another bypass, will
that hold the scar tissue at bay? What have others found to be there
case? I want so much to do the correct thing to prolong my life. I
also need to settle my mind down. The more options I have and the more
info I can get, the better I'll feel in making a decision. My body
produced enough scar tissue in a month to close the 2 bypass grafts. I
think that's FAST. I'll do anything not to have a repeat of this
happen to the remaining 2. During last weeks cath, the Doc did open
some avnenue of blood flow. I hope with the med....it's stays open.
Does any of this compare with anyone elses story? Let the ball
roll......I'd like to hear more from anyone on this important subject.
Please and thanx, Bogie

In article said:

Thanx for all the input so far. I really don't know much about the
diet you speak of. I was wondering if anyone has any scar tissue build
up on their chest incision? 3/4's of mine looks normal, the bottom
(near belly button) is the widest part. It's got extra tissue built up
there. Scar tissue. The cardio said that what I see on the outside, is

I don't have it on my chest but I do on my right leg. Most of the scar
is very narrow but there is a stretch about 6 inched long that is about
1 - 1& 1/2 inches wide and ugly. I think my skin sorta turned loose
at that point.