Block Training Weekly...Timan

I am currently debating the same scheduling issue.

I think it was touched upon in the recent "plateau in FTP thread".

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I may not be correct but I have been on the 3 days blocking training program for closer to 2 months. Mostly on the trainer because of the weather. Mainly threshold and sub-threshold sessions from 60 minutes to 90 minutes. Always double session on Sunday since I have the time to recover from the first workout. They are hard. After 3 weeks of that you will feel it. I was able to adapt the workload. Now, I am able to spend about an hour at 70% of FT the day after my 3rd day block. The next day after that, 90 minutes at 80%+ FT. By Friday, the beginning of the block cycling again.

Try it out for couple of weeks to see if you body can handle the workload. I have over 100 hours on SST sessions before I switched to the block training though. If I were you, like what I am trying to do right now, is to incorprate your race as part of your block training. I can tell you that if you did the block training hard enough, you may be able to recover just enough to get in another SST session 2 days later. 🙂 If you schedule you race 2 days after the block, I am not sure if you can race hard enough.

dm69 said:

Hey all. Asking the knowledgeable lot here on your thoughts about block training every week. Would especially like to hear from Ti-man.

My plan would be this

Monday-Full Rest day or active recovery (1hour L1-2)
Tuesday-Block training day (Usually shorter and more intense than other days)
Wednesday- Block training day (Usually a bit longer & less intense than Tuesday but still in the same zone.
Thursday- Last Block Training day (Uphill effort today as its slightly easier to keep in your zone going uphill when your fatigued compared to on the flat)
Friday- Active recovery (1/2-1 hour L1-2)
Saturday- Another easy day usually just L2-3 for less than 2 hours and a few short sharp bursts to loosen the legs for Sunday)
Sunday- Race & Active Reco.

Simply pick a zone to concentrate on for TUE, WED & THURSDAY and follow the plan.

This week my training has looked like this

Monday- 1 hour L2
Tuesday- 2 hours L2, followed by a 2minute ON / 3 minute OFF x4. Then 1/2 hour recovery.
Wednesday- 1 hour L2 followed by 4mins ON, 6 mins OFF, 3 mins ON, 6 mins OFF, 3mins ON, 15 mins active recovery.
Thursday- Weights session for school sport working the legs. 1 hour L2 then a "club training race" for about 25 mins working turns. Went off the front on my own for about 5 mins got caught with 3 km's to go then managed to pull off a big sprint at the finish.
Friday- 1 hour L1
Saturday- 1 hour mostly at L2 with a few short bursts (morning). Criterium at 6pm!
Sunday- 2-3 hours LSD over random intensity zones.

Im up to friday at the moment and am finding my legs to be quite sore. The above is a Vo2max block week with the rest of the km's mainly low intensity. By 2morra nite or sunday morning I would expect my legs to be feeling quite fresh and powerful again.

I am thinking of doing a plan like this. With every 3rd or 4th week as a recovery week. Simply deciding which zone I want to focus on that week to block train.

For the next two weeks I want to hit vo2 (L5) then have a recovery week. After that period I will move onto FTP (L4).

Seems like a good way to do specific training on a certain zone and still be fully recovered by Sunday for your race. What do you think?

BTW this is my first intense week of teh year. This is week 8 atm the other 7 weeks before this has mostly been aimed at building some kind of L2-3 base & maybe a race once a week to keep teh speed up. Haven't actually done a 400km plus week yet but I am not worried. I know my base is big enough to start vo2

dm69 said:

Monday-Full Rest day or active recovery (1hour L1-2)

Make sure the recovery days are L1 with no pressure on the legs..no hills.

dm69 said:

Tuesday-Block training day (Usually shorter and more intense than other days)
Wednesday- Block training day (Usually a bit longer & less intense than Tuesday but still in the same zone.
Thursday- Last Block Training day (Uphill effort today as its slightly easier to keep in your zone going uphill when your fatigued compared to on the flat)(1hour L1-2)

Yes, it is fine to decrease intensity and increase volume

dm69 said:

Friday- Active recovery (1/2-1 hour L1-2)

L1 as above

dm69 said:

Saturday- Another easy day usually just L2-3 for less than 2 hours and a few short sharp bursts to loosen the legs for Sunday)

Allow for as much recovery/glycogen replenishment time as possible by riding after dinner on your trainer....or after school outside. Make the majority of the ride low L2. I would drop the L3 unless it is only for maybe 10 minutes. Do one 5 minute chunk at 100%FTP and then 2 X 2 miniutes at L5...one hour max...DONE![/QUOTE]

dm69 said:

Sunday- Race & Active Reco.

If the race is short then do more training after the race. Perhaps some L4 if you feel up to it...for sure L3

dm69 said:

This week my training has looked like this

Monday- 1 hour L2

L1...no pressure..HR like 110

dm69 said:

Tuesday- 2 hours L2, followed by a 2minute ON / 3 minute OFF x4. Then 1/2 hour recovery.

Too much L2 before those intervals. This fatigues you. Just warm up for 15 and hit them hard.
2 minute intervals are not good for VO2 max stim. It takes about 2 minutes just to reach 95-100% VO2 max from a fairly recovered state. You can make them much better by only resting 60-90 seconds between efforts.

dm69 said:

Wednesday- 1 hour L2 followed by 4mins ON, 6 mins OFF, 3 mins ON, 6 mins OFF, 3mins ON, 15 mins active recovery.

Same here.

Try 4 minute "on" and 3-4 minutes "off".
Personally I like long VO2 intervals of 5 minutes as they give you about 3 minutes at 95-100% VO2 max per interval. It doesn't matter if you rest a bit longer than 5 minutes between them since you get so much time at VO2 max in each interval anyway.

dm69 said:

Thursday- Weights session for school sport working the legs. 1 hour L2 then a "club training race" for about 25 mins working turns. Went off the front on my own for about 5 mins got caught with 3 km's to go then managed to pull off a big sprint at the finish.

The weights should never be done late in the week like this, or before even a short training race. It is very tough to fit in weights when racing and in fact the weights should probably be dropped. But if you want to continue with them then I think the best place for them is Sunday night. Then you get a recovery day the next day which is important after weights[/QUOTE]

dm69 said:

I am thinking of doing a plan like this. With every 3rd or 4th week as a recovery week. Simply deciding which zone I want to focus on that week to block train.

Do both L5 and L4 in the block.
Where is your sprint training?

Try this for a week.
Day 1 Tuesdays.. VO2 max...5 X 5
Day 2 threshold. Do a couple long intervals. At the end of each threshold interval do 3 minutes at VO2 max
Day 3 threshold and tempo. Perhaps 45 minutes non stop at L3.

dm69 said:

For the next two weeks I want to hit vo2 (L5) then have a recovery week. After that period I will move onto FTP (L4).

Ok...then try this... It is very tough to do three days in a row of real VO2 work. Try two in a row
Day 1... 5 X5 at 113-115% FTP....start with 4 and work up
Day 2....6-8 X 3 at 117%FTP...start with 5 and work up
Day 3....Threshold work, say 1 X 20 at 100% FTP, with 30 of tempo and maybe some L2 if you feel up to it.
Day 4 ...recovery ride 30-60 minutes super easy no pressure. Remember recovery rides are NOT training. They should have no training stimulation. It's like going for a walk on a bike.
Day 5 ...Another recovery day. But after dinner do 45 minutes on your trainer as a tune up for the race. Most L2 but do a short threshold effort of 5 minutes at 100% FTP and 1-2 intervals of 2 minutes length at L5. Done!

[/QUOTE]

TiMan said:

TI MAN: Make sure the recovery days are L1 with no pressure on the legs..no hills.

ME: Ok

TI MAN: Yes, it is fine to decrease intensity and increase volume

Me:Ok. But does that mean I have to fully change zones eg. L6 one day, L5 next and L4 the 3rd day? Couldn't you just reduce the reps and lengthen the interval but still stay in the zone eg. 4x 2mins 1st day, 3x 5mins 2nd day, 2x 6mins 3rd day?

Allow for as much recovery/glycogen replenishment time as possible by riding after dinner on your trainer....or after school outside. Make the majority of the ride low L2. I would drop the L3 unless it is only for maybe 10 minutes. Do one 5 minute chunk at 100%FTP and then 2 X 2 miniutes at L5...one hour max...DONE!

If the race is short then do more training after the race. Perhaps some L4 if you feel up to it...for sure L3

L1...no pressure..HR like 110

Too much L2 before those intervals. This fatigues you. Just warm up for 15 and hit them hard.
2 minute intervals are not good for VO2 max stim. It takes about 2 minutes just to reach 95-100% VO2 max from a fairly recovered state. You can make them much better by only resting 60-90 seconds between efforts.

ME: Dont really have a choice here. Have to do atleast 1 and a half hours L2 beforehand. I'll just aim to go as easy as possible.

TI MAN: Try 4 minute "on" and 3-4 minutes "off".
Personally I like long VO2 intervals of 5 minutes as they give you about 3 minutes at 95-100% VO2 max per interval. It doesn't matter if you rest a bit longer than 5 minutes between them since you get so much time at VO2 max in each interval anyway.

Me: Yep I can manage that. It was my first week of intensity and I blew up too early. Actually aimed for 5 minutes so I'll pace myself better this week. Shorter rest aswell.

Ti Man:The weights should never be done late in the week like this, or before even a short training race. It is very tough to fit in weights when racing and in fact the weights should probably be dropped. But if you want to continue with them then I think the best place for them is Sunday night. Then you get a recovery day the next day which is important after weights[/QUOTE]I get a rest day on friday and saturday after the weights though? I dont value the training race at all. Its just an ego test. I always seem to be able to manage a strong ride after the weights session. Im just sore on friday and saturday but I can handle that.

Do both L5 and L4 in the block.
Where is your sprint training?

Me:Isnt the point of block training being able to hit one particular zone to induce super-compensation? I am a bit of a fan of periodization aswell, It gives structure and method to my training. Would mixing L5 & L4 every week lead to a plateau or not? Thats what I am worried about, Would it maybe be better to just target one intensity and some weekly sprint training to keep technique and top end power?

Ti Man: Try this for a week.
Day 1 Tuesdays.. VO2 max...5 X 5
Day 2 threshold. Do a couple long intervals. At the end of each threshold interval do 3 minutes at VO2 max
Day 3 threshold and tempo. Perhaps 45 minutes non stop at L3.

Me: In 3days I go from L5 to L3. Would doing this week in week in out just lead to a plateau?

Ti man: Ok...then try this... It is very tough to do three days in a row of real VO2 work. Try two in a row
Day 1... 5 X5 at 113-115% FTP....start with 4 and work up
Day 2....6-8 X 3 at 117%FTP...start with 5 and work up
Day 3....Threshold work, say 1 X 20 at 100% FTP, with 30 of tempo and maybe some L2 if you feel up to it.
Day 4 ...recovery ride 30-60 minutes super easy no pressure. Remember recovery rides are NOT training. They should have no training stimulation. It's like going for a walk on a bike.
Day 5 ...Another recovery day. But after dinner do 45 minutes on your trainer as a tune up for the race. Most L2 but do a short threshold effort of 5 minutes at 100% FTP and 1-2 intervals of 2 minutes length at L5. Done!

Me: My plan is to block vo2 for 3 weeks. I week recovery. Block train FTP for 3 weeks. 1 week recovery. Then block L4-6 weekly.

The above looks like a pretty typical week after I finish the block of vo2 and FTP except I will probably include some L6 &7.

Does this sound good or do you think I am still going about this the wrong way?

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

dm69 said:

If the race is short then do more training after the race. Perhaps some L4 if you feel up to it...for sure L3

L1...no pressure..HR like 110

Too much L2 before those intervals. This fatigues you. Just warm up for 15 and hit them hard.
2 minute intervals are not good for VO2 max stim. It takes about 2 minutes just to reach 95-100% VO2 max from a fairly recovered state. You can make them much better by only resting 60-90 seconds between efforts.

ME: Dont really have a choice here. Have to do atleast 1 and a half hours L2 beforehand. I'll just aim to go as easy as possible.

TI MAN: Try 4 minute "on" and 3-4 minutes "off".
Personally I like long VO2 intervals of 5 minutes as they give you about 3 minutes at 95-100% VO2 max per interval. It doesn't matter if you rest a bit longer than 5 minutes between them since you get so much time at VO2 max in each interval anyway.

Me: Yep I can manage that. It was my first week of intensity and I blew up too early. Actually aimed for 5 minutes so I'll pace myself better this week. Shorter rest aswell.

Ti Man:The weights should never be done late in the week like this, or before even a short training race. It is very tough to fit in weights when racing and in fact the weights should probably be dropped. But if you want to continue with them then I think the best place for them is Sunday night. Then you get a recovery day the next day which is important after weights

I get a rest day on friday and saturday after the weights though? I dont value the training race at all. Its just an ego test. I always seem to be able to manage a strong ride after the weights session. Im just sore on friday and saturday but I can handle that.

Do both L5 and L4 in the block.
Where is your sprint training?

Me:Isnt the point of block training being able to hit one particular zone to induce super-compensation? I am a bit of a fan of periodization aswell, It gives structure and method to my training. Would mixing L5 & L4 every week lead to a plateau or not? Thats what I am worried about, Would it maybe be better to just target one intensity and some weekly sprint training to keep technique and top end power?

Ti Man: Try this for a week.
Day 1 Tuesdays.. VO2 max...5 X 5
Day 2 threshold. Do a couple long intervals. At the end of each threshold interval do 3 minutes at VO2 max
Day 3 threshold and tempo. Perhaps 45 minutes non stop at L3.

Me: In 3days I go from L5 to L3. Would doing this week in week in out just lead to a plateau?

Ti man: Ok...then try this... It is very tough to do three days in a row of real VO2 work. Try two in a row
Day 1... 5 X5 at 113-115% FTP....start with 4 and work up
Day 2....6-8 X 3 at 117%FTP...start with 5 and work up
Day 3....Threshold work, say 1 X 20 at 100% FTP, with 30 of tempo and maybe some L2 if you feel up to it.
Day 4 ...recovery ride 30-60 minutes super easy no pressure. Remember recovery rides are NOT training. They should have no training stimulation. It's like going for a walk on a bike.
Day 5 ...Another recovery day. But after dinner do 45 minutes on your trainer as a tune up for the race. Most L2 but do a short threshold effort of 5 minutes at 100% FTP and 1-2 intervals of 2 minutes length at L5. Done!

Me: My plan is to block vo2 for 3 weeks. I week recovery. Block train FTP for 3 weeks. 1 week recovery. Then block L4-6 weekly.

The above looks like a pretty typical week after I finish the block of vo2 and FTP except I will probably include some L6 &7.

Does this sound good or do you think I am still going about this the wrong way?

You can block train one energy system at a time as you planned. If that's what you want to do then that is fine. It is also fine to mix a block and work two energy systems but with one as a primary. There are many productive ways to block train.
Remember, energy systems don't work in isolation...they all work together...it's just the focus that changes.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

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You can block train one energy system at a time as you planned. If that's what you want to do then that is fine. It is also fine to mix a block and work two energy systems but with one as a primary. There are many productive ways to block train.
Remember, energy systems don't work in isolation...they all work together...it's just the focus that changes.

About the weights....ya you could do the weights as you planned but it will be tough after the weeks training. It is best to do weights when you are more rested.

TiMan said:

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You can block train one energy system at a time as you planned. If that's what you want to do then that is fine. It is also fine to mix a block and work two energy systems but with one as a primary. There are many productive ways to block train.
Remember, energy systems don't work in isolation...they all work together...it's just the focus that changes.

About the weights....ya you could do the weights as you planned but it will be tough after the weeks training. It is best to do weights when you are more rested.

Thx 4 clearing that up about mixing the intensities.

Agreed. Weights are very hard when your already pooped from 3 hard days of training. I will have another look at my diary and see if maybe I can start a block on Thursday? Probably wont work because ultimately I want to be fresh for sunday for the race not the weights session.

I might just mix the block up a little for now with two days L5 and day 3 mixed intensity. The weights session will probably have to be done when pre-fatigued but thats not a MAJOR concern it is just weights.

Thx 4 the help.