Block Training AWC/L6/short intervals

jetnjeff said:

There has been a couple threads on Block training aimed at FTP and VO2, lately and the big one last fall. cyclingforums.comshowth...=96530&t=274092Open ↗

I do not recall any talk of doing block training for AWC, say 45 seconds to 2 minutes. Only talk of some not doing formal L6 or to focus on it for peaking 6-8 weeks out.

My feeling is that Blocking successive days of L6 would be tough and possibly counter productive. But I thought the same about L4 and L5 until recently too.

I am curious on others thoughts on this.

I think your feeling is correct. I think L6 training requires more freshness to be effective than L4 does.

Try this.....it works....but only do it 1-3 times a year for three weeks at a time.

Two sets of 4 x 2 minutes at 135% FTP on Day 1, then two sets of 6 x 1 at 145% FTP on Day 2, then Threshold work on Day 3...then 2 days of recovery at least! Then do a hard group ride and do some structured 30 -90 second L6 efforts....kill the group( and yourself he he he) then hide and recover.
Then take an active recovery day and start the block again.

15-20 minutes easy between sets

Third week do three sets of each.

Then take a recovery week of 5-7 days.

*** AWC is the least important element in road racing..even in crits...and training it comes with a high recovery cost .

TiMan said:

*** AWC is the least important element in road racing..even in crits...and training it comes with a high recovery cost .

Why train it if it is the least important element in RR?

Jim

Thanks,

Short power is a bit more important for MTB. Would you agree?
Or reserve training it for track type events?

Do you limit the "Formal" AWC training to 3 weeks when you block it or in general?

Do you feel that group rides and training races train AWC sufficiently enough, so explicit AWC training is not usually needed?

I see a theme here of a 2 day block of the main component and a 3rd day of FTP or SST. Any benefit or detriment of doing the entire 3 or 4 day block on the same system?

TiMan said:

Try this.....it works....but only do it 1-3 times a year for three weeks at a time.

Two sets of 4 x 2 minutes at 135% FTP on Day 1, then two sets of 6 x 1 at 145% FTP on Day 2, then Threshold work on Day 3...then 2 days of recovery at least! Then do a hard group ride and do some structured 30 -90 second L6 efforts....kill the group( and yourself he he he) then hide and recover.
Then take an active recovery day and start the block again.

15-20 minutes easy between sets

Third week do three sets of each.

Then take a recovery week of 5-7 days.

*** AWC is the least important element in road racing..even in crits...and training it comes with a high recovery cost .

jetnjeff said:

Thanks,

Short power is a bit more important for MTB. Would you agree?
Or reserve training it for track type events?

Do you limit the "Formal" AWC training to 3 weeks when you block it or in general?

Do you feel that group rides and training races train AWC sufficiently enough, so explicit AWC training is not usually needed?

I see a theme here of a 2 day block of the main component and a 3rd day of FTP or SST. Any benefit or detriment of doing the entire 3 or 4 day block on the same system?

Yes, it is a bit more important in mountain biking, depending on the course I think, but not as much as you might think.

Most guys don't need much AWC work to be good road racers so yes ...limit it to 3 weeks at a time even if not block training. It is very hard to recover from if done right.

NO... hard group rides and races DO NOT generally work awc that much really. They work VO2 max a lot but not awc...unless you do some intentional awc efforts. If you are quite weak in awc then you should do some structured awc work. If you are not that weak then you could get by with NONE or just "some" awc intervals for a few weeks once a year.
Of course the more you focus on crits the more awc becomes a potential limiter. However, remember, even in crits the main factor is FTP follwed by VO2 max...followed by neuromuscular power- sprints.

You can block train any energy system specifically for three days ..sure...but it is very tough to do it with AWC and VO2 work and in fact I don't recommend three day blocks of VO2 or awc for most guys.

Coaching both MTB and Road, I think L6 is most important for road. There are no attacks in MTB.

Traditionally, the 6-8 weeks Speedwork (competition preparation phase) cycle focuses on L6 2 days per week, when most recovered. Block training L6 would require a large drop in volume which might not work for most.

I like the different points of view. Although these are very similar in regards to pointing out the extra recovery and commiserate drop in Volume. It really gives me something to think about.

Traditionally I would do a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday block of AWC, VO2, FTP respectively. This was race prep and in season( if tired i would rest Wednesday and alternate VO2 and FTP). Easy ride on Saturday and a hard MTB ride or race on Sunday. Sometimes that worked great othertimes not so great.

Years ago, After reading Lemonds book, I would do NM,alternate AWC and VO2, Endurance, on the Tues,Wed,Thur block with some success as well.

My thinking may change, but I have tought that the sort steep hills require more AWC, But with incomplete recovery, that is the norm Off Road, that it may be more like VO2 after all. As most are not true max AWC efforts, but dip into it a bit. So maximizing AWC may in fact not be neccassary! hmmm.

Spunout said:

Coaching both MTB and Road, I think L6 is most important for road. There are no attacks in MTB.

Traditionally, the 6-8 weeks Speedwork (competition preparation phase) cycle focuses on L6 2 days per week, when most recovered. Block training L6 would require a large drop in volume which might not work for most.