Blackfriars Bridge

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a
pic of the new layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

groups.msn.comroadsignsandotheOpen ↗
rfurniture.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main
problem is still there - buses still have to cut across the
inside lane to continue. Given that no busses turn right
here, surely it would be better to have the bus stop on the
right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road is
dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve to
accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to me.
Of course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so that
peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

In "]news:[email hidden],
Nathaniel Porter <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a
pic of the new layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

groups.msn.comroadsignsandotheOpen ↗
rfurniture.msnw?a ction=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main
problem is still there - buses still have to cut across
the inside lane to continue. Given that no busses turn
right here, surely it would be better to have the bus stop
on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road
is dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve
to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to
me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so
that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

Urm, don't buses have doors on the left? 🙂

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not clear how it
would work out.

A

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Nathaniel
Porter <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is
a pic of the new layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

groups.msn.comroadsignsandotheOpen ↗
rfurniture.msnw?a

Quoted message said:

ction=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main
problem is still there - buses still have to cut across
the inside lane to continue. Given that no busses turn
right here, surely it would be better to have the bus
stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given
the road is dualled, and there is room to widen the
central reserve to accomodate the bus stop, it seems
perfectly possible to me. Of course pedestrian crossings
would be necessary so that peds. can get to the bus stop
- but it avoid the problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

Urm, don't buses have doors on the left? 🙂

D'oh!

Quoted message said:

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not clear how it would
work out.

Well, given the slight problem you have highlighted, it
wouldn't :-)

I'll get my coat....

Nathaniel Porter said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a
pic of the new layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

groups.msn.comroadsignsandotheOpen ↗
rfurniture.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main
problem is still there - buses still have to cut across
the inside lane to continue. Given that no busses turn
right here, surely it would be better to have the bus stop
on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road
is dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve
to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to
me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so
that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

It looks much better to me an in line with what I've always
done anyway (assuming the hatched area in the distance
between L1 and L2 is a new cycle lane. Yes you have to
cross the left turning traffic to get to it but if you are
not able to change across a lane in London you are not
going to get very far. At least the change over is further
along after most buses and other vehicles will have
finished lane changes.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main
problem is still there - buses still have to cut across
the inside lane to continue. Given that no busses turn
right here, surely it would be better to have the bus stop
on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road
is dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve
to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to
me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so
that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement. Any thoughts?

It looks much better to me an in line with what I've
always done anyway (assuming the hatched area in the
distance between L1 and L2 is a new cycle lane. Yes you
have to cross the left turning traffic to get to it but if
you are not able to change across a lane in London you are
not going to get very far. At least the change over is
further along after most buses and other vehicles will
have finished lane changes.

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks bloody narrow to
me, especially as the adjacent lanes get narrower as it
starts. In the middle of a proper lane, you are at least a
metre from anything encroaching from an adjacent lane.
Here, in the middle of the lane, it looks like you'd have
less than a foot clearance from HGVs or buses in the
adjacent lanes. That doesn't give much time to react. It's
useful for filtering between queues, but a deathtrap with
free-flowing traffic.

From experience, the best solution in places like this
would be a
4.4m left turn lane and two 3m lanes, with strict speed
limits. Cyclists stay by the kerb until 100 or 200m before
the junction, then shift to the middle of the middle lane.
This requires confident cycling, but is not as bad as
taking a lane all the way over - or getting overtaken too
close with submissive road positioning.

A cycle lane between two general lanes needs to be wide -
the total width of all 3 lanes needs to be at least 8m.

Colin McKenzie

--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that it
leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

Nathaniel Porter said:

"Ambrose Nankivell"
<[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Nathaniel
Porter <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

>I don't know if this has been posted before but here is
>a pic of the new layout at Blackfriars bridge:
>
>

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

groups.msn.comroadsignsandotOpen ↗
herfurniture.msnw?a

Quoted message said:

ction=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main
problem is still there - buses still have to cut across
the inside lane to continue. Given that no busses turn
right here, surely it would be better to have the bus
stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the
road is dualled, and there is room to widen the central
reserve to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly
possible to me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be
necessary so that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it
avoid the problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

Urm, don't buses have doors on the left? 🙂

D'oh!

Quoted message said:

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not clear how it would
work out.

Well, given the slight problem you have highlighted, it
wouldn't :-)

I'll get my coat....

Ah, but what about having the bus stop in the left-most lane
going *straight on*. Yes, peds would have to cross the 'turm
left lane' but then buses and cyclists would be in a normal
road encounter rather than the buses looking to sweep across
their path during a lane-change.

Velvet

--

Velvet

Colin McKenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks bloody narrow
to me, especially as the adjacent lanes get narrower as
it starts.

The road looks too narrow for 3 lanes and a cycle lane. I
would ignore that cycle lane and take a central position in
the middle lane if I was going straight on. There is of
course acres of empty pavement. So if a cycle lane is
thought necessary then the pavement should be narrowed by 3
or 4 feet to allow room on the road for a proper cycle lane.
That kiddy on one in the photo is worse than nothing. Of
course road widening takes more money than it costs for a
couple of tins of paint. Iain

In article <[email hidden]>,

iarocu said:

Colin McKenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks bloody narrow to
me, especially as the adjacent lanes get narrower as it
starts.

The road looks too narrow for 3 lanes and a cycle lane. I
would ignore that cycle lane and take a central position in
the middle lane if I was going straight on. There is of
course acres of empty pavement. So if a cycle lane is
thought necessary then the pavement should be narrowed by 3
or 4 feet to allow room on the road for a proper cycle
lane. That kiddy on one in the photo is worse than nothing.
Of course road widening takes more money than it costs for
a couple of tins of paint.

Those acres of empty pavement are pretty full with people
crossing the bridge during commuting hours IIRC.

Phil

--
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