Blackfriars Bridge

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a pic of the new
layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

http://groups.msn.com/TheSABRERoadsWebsite/roadsignsandotherfurniture.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main problem is still
there - buses still have to cut across the inside lane to continue. Given
that no busses turn right here, surely it would be better to have the bus
stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road is dualled,
and there is room to widen the central reserve to accomodate the bus stop,
it seems perfectly possible to me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be
necessary so that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

In news:[email hidden],
Nathaniel Porter <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a pic of the
new layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

http://groups.msn.com/TheSABRERoadsWebsite/roadsignsandotherfurniture.msnw?a
ction=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main problem is still
there - buses still have to cut across the inside lane to continue.
Given that no busses turn right here, surely it would be better to
have the bus stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given
the road is dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve
to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to me. Of
course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so that peds. can get
to the bus stop - but it avoid the problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

Urm, don't buses have doors on the left? 🙂

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not clear how it would work out.

A

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Nathaniel Porter <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a pic of the
new layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

http://groups.msn.com/TheSABRERoadsWebsite/roadsignsandotherfurniture.msnw?a

Quoted message said:

ction=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main problem is still
there - buses still have to cut across the inside lane to continue.
Given that no busses turn right here, surely it would be better to
have the bus stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given
the road is dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve
to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to me. Of
course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so that peds. can get
to the bus stop - but it avoid the problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

Urm, don't buses have doors on the left? 🙂

D'oh!

Quoted message said:

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not clear how it would work out.

Well, given the slight problem you have highlighted, it wouldn't :-)

I'll get my coat....

Nathaniel Porter said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a pic of the new
layout at Blackfriars bridge:

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

http://groups.msn.com/TheSABRERoadsWebsite/roadsignsandotherfurniture.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main problem is still
there - buses still have to cut across the inside lane to continue. Given
that no busses turn right here, surely it would be better to have the bus
stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road is dualled,
and there is room to widen the central reserve to accomodate the bus stop,
it seems perfectly possible to me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be
necessary so that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

It looks much better to me an in line with what I've always done anyway
(assuming the hatched area in the distance between L1 and L2 is a new cycle
lane. Yes you have to cross the left turning traffic to get to it but if you
are not able to change across a lane in London you are not going to get very
far. At least the change over is further along after most buses and other
vehicles will have finished lane changes.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main problem is still
there - buses still have to cut across the inside lane to continue. Given
that no busses turn right here, surely it would be better to have the bus
stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given the road is dualled,
and there is room to widen the central reserve to accomodate the bus stop,
it seems perfectly possible to me. Of course pedestrian crossings would be
necessary so that peds. can get to the bus stop - but it avoid the
problematic weaving movement.
Any thoughts?

It looks much better to me an in line with what I've always done anyway
(assuming the hatched area in the distance between L1 and L2 is a new cycle
lane. Yes you have to cross the left turning traffic to get to it but if you
are not able to change across a lane in London you are not going to get very
far. At least the change over is further along after most buses and other
vehicles will have finished lane changes.

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks bloody narrow to me,
especially as the adjacent lanes get narrower as it starts. In the
middle of a proper lane, you are at least a metre from anything
encroaching from an adjacent lane. Here, in the middle of the lane, it
looks like you'd have less than a foot clearance from HGVs or buses in
the adjacent lanes. That doesn't give much time to react. It's useful
for filtering between queues, but a deathtrap with free-flowing traffic.

From experience, the best solution in places like this would be a
4.4m left turn lane and two 3m lanes, with strict speed limits.
Cyclists stay by the kerb until 100 or 200m before the junction, then
shift to the middle of the middle lane. This requires confident
cycling, but is not as bad as taking a lane all the way over - or
getting overtaken too close with submissive road positioning.

A cycle lane between two general lanes needs to be wide - the total
width of all 3 lanes needs to be at least 8m.

Colin McKenzie

--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

Nathaniel Porter said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Nathaniel Porter <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>I don't know if this has been posted before but here is a pic of the
>new layout at Blackfriars bridge:
>
>

<blushes>

Erm, here is a pic of the new layout:

http://groups.msn.com/TheSABRERoadsWebsite/roadsignsandotherfurniture.msnw?a

Quoted message said:

ction=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4288

Quoted message said:

Now the first thing that strikes me is that the main problem is still
there - buses still have to cut across the inside lane to continue.
Given that no busses turn right here, surely it would be better to
have the bus stop on the right hand side of the carriageway? Given
the road is dualled, and there is room to widen the central reserve
to accomodate the bus stop, it seems perfectly possible to me. Of
course pedestrian crossings would be necessary so that peds. can get
to the bus stop - but it avoid the problematic weaving movement.

Any thoughts?

Urm, don't buses have doors on the left? 🙂

D'oh!

Quoted message said:

I can see your reasoning, but I'm not clear how it would work out.

Well, given the slight problem you have highlighted, it wouldn't :-)

I'll get my coat....

Ah, but what about having the bus stop in the left-most lane going
*straight on*. Yes, peds would have to cross the 'turm left lane' but
then buses and cyclists would be in a normal road encounter rather than
the buses looking to sweep across their path during a lane-change.

Velvet

--

Velvet

Colin McKenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks bloody narrow to me,
especially as the adjacent lanes get narrower as it starts.

The road looks too narrow for 3 lanes and a cycle lane. I would ignore
that cycle lane and take a central position in the middle lane if I
was going straight on. There is of course acres of empty pavement. So
if a cycle lane is thought necessary then the pavement should be
narrowed by 3 or 4 feet to allow room on the road for a proper cycle
lane. That kiddy on one in the photo is worse than nothing.
Of course road widening takes more money than it costs for a couple
of tins of paint.
Iain

In article <[email hidden]>,

iarocu said:

Colin McKenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks bloody narrow to me,
especially as the adjacent lanes get narrower as it starts.

The road looks too narrow for 3 lanes and a cycle lane. I would ignore
that cycle lane and take a central position in the middle lane if I
was going straight on. There is of course acres of empty pavement. So
if a cycle lane is thought necessary then the pavement should be
narrowed by 3 or 4 feet to allow room on the road for a proper cycle
lane. That kiddy on one in the photo is worse than nothing.
Of course road widening takes more money than it costs for a couple
of tins of paint.

Those acres of empty pavement are pretty full with people crossing the
bridge during commuting hours IIRC.

Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt