Black Soybeans?

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 03:00:53 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
are they more like other beans in being incomplete?

The whole "complete protein" thing is an outmoded concept, which even
Francis Moore Lappe says in her newer books. It's just not necessary
to get "complete" protein in every meal, or to combine proteins to
make sure you have all your amino acids balanced at all times.

However, here's what Eden Foods has to say about them:

"Black Soybeans (Glycine max) have all of the nutrition of yellow
soybeans including the isoflavone nutrients Genistein, Daidzein, and
Glycetein. Soybeans are unique among beans because they provide
naturally occurring healthy unsaturated vegetable fat. They also
provide a 'complete' protein with a balance of essential amino acids.
EDEN Black Soybeans are heart healthy, rich in dietary fiber and soy
protein. They are a good source of vitamin A, iron, phosphorus,
magnesium and zinc, and provide potassium, calcium and important B
vitamins (B1, B2, B3, B9). The only low carb bean."

serene

Steve Pope said:

What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
are they more like other beans in being incomplete?

The local Grocery Outlet has a bunch of cans of black soybeans
on sale for cheap. If one goes by the nutritional information
on the can they do not have nearly the oil content of normal
soybeans.

Maybe they're some sort of hybrid?

No. An old variety. Extremely low in carbs - very little oligosaccharide
content, so no "music" from them.

Not as waxy a tasty as pinto or kidney beans; still have a slight
soybean flavor and texture, but it's not bad.

I've used them both dried and canned. Both good. Eden brand canned
available in lots of stores. 25 pound bag of dry, also from Eden -
bought online.

I like them.

Pastorio

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob (this one) said:

Steve Pope said:

What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
are they more like other beans in being incomplete?

The local Grocery Outlet has a bunch of cans of black soybeans
on sale for cheap. If one goes by the nutritional information
on the can they do not have nearly the oil content of normal
soybeans.

Maybe they're some sort of hybrid?

No. An old variety. Extremely low in carbs - very little oligosaccharide
content, so no "music" from them.

Not as waxy a tasty as pinto or kidney beans; still have a slight
soybean flavor and texture, but it's not bad.

I've used them both dried and canned. Both good. Eden brand canned
available in lots of stores. 25 pound bag of dry, also from Eden -
bought online.

I like them.

Pastorio

Ditto here.
I'd give my eye teeth to be able to get a bunch of canned ones on sale!
I love them and go back to strict low carb Feb. 1st. ;-)

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob (this one) said:

Steve Pope said:

What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
are they more like other beans in being incomplete?

The local Grocery Outlet has a bunch of cans of black soybeans
on sale for cheap. If one goes by the nutritional information
on the can they do not have nearly the oil content of normal
soybeans.

Maybe they're some sort of hybrid?

No. An old variety. Extremely low in carbs - very little oligosaccharide
content, so no "music" from them.

Not as waxy a tasty as pinto or kidney beans; still have a slight
soybean flavor and texture, but it's not bad.

I've used them both dried and canned. Both good. Eden brand canned
available in lots of stores. 25 pound bag of dry, also from Eden -
bought online.

I like them.

Pastorio

Ditto here.
I'd give my eye teeth to be able to get a bunch of canned ones on sale!
I love them and go back to strict low carb Feb. 1st. ;-)

Cheers!

Guess we will just have to wait until this summer. I am hoping to
have a decent garden this year and not get sick or break a limb. No
fun trying to pick veggies and can or freeze when you have a broken
arm.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

serene said:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 03:00:53 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
are they more like other beans in being incomplete?

Quoted message said:

The whole "complete protein" thing is an outmoded concept, which even
Francis Moore Lappe says in her newer books. It's just not necessary
to get "complete" protein in every meal, or to combine proteins to
make sure you have all your amino acids balanced at all times.

Right. "At all times", sure. But the concept can't be a
complete myth -- you would still contract pellagra if your diet
is lysine-deficient. I consider it good to balance protein over
the course of a day, and within a meal is my usual goal. To me
it stands to reason that if your protein intake is incomplete
over the timeframe in which liver metabolism occurs, some of
those amino acits will just be metabolized as energy and will not be
used for synthesis, i.e. you might as well have consumed carbs.

Lappe had serious mistakes in her protein-balancing information
in early editions of "Diet for a Small Planet", which she has
since corrected or maybe overcorrected. The information I trust
comes from Davis and Melina ("Becoming Vegan"😉 and states that for a
gram of protein to be complete it will contain the following minimums:

Tryptophan 11 mg
Histidine 19 mg
Methionine 25 mg (Cysteine can replace some of this)
Isoleucine 28 mg
Threonine 34 mg
Valine 35 mg
Lysine 58 mg
Phenylalanine 63 mg (Tyrosine can replace some of this)
Leucine 66 mg

Since this only adds up to 340 mg, there's quite a bit of margin --
hence soy protein can be "complete" even though egg protein is higher
quality because it has even more of the essenitial amion acids
in the desirable ratio.

(I wish I had the exact information on how much cysteine and
tyrosine you can substitute -- haven't found that yet.)

Quoted message said:

However, here's what Eden Foods has to say about them:

"Black Soybeans (Glycine max) have all of the nutrition of yellow
soybeans including the isoflavone nutrients Genistein, Daidzein, and
Glycetein. Soybeans are unique among beans because they provide
naturally occurring healthy unsaturated vegetable fat. They also
provide a 'complete' protein with a balance of essential amino acids.
EDEN Black Soybeans are heart healthy, rich in dietary fiber and soy
protein. They are a good source of vitamin A, iron, phosphorus,
magnesium and zinc, and provide potassium, calcium and important B
vitamins (B1, B2, B3, B9). The only low carb bean."

Thanks.

We just realized that the product at Grocery Outlet, Shariann's
Black Soybeans in cans, has inconsistent nutrition labeling --
the numbers don't add up -- which is probably why it's at
Grocery Outlet.

Gonna go buy some more cans of it now. It went pretty well
in a hot/sour soup that included broad bean paste and brown
rice vinegar and mostly mushroom broth.

Steve

In article <[email hidden]>,

The Cook said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob (this one) said:

Steve Pope wrote:
> What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
> complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
> are they more like other beans in being incomplete?
>
> The local Grocery Outlet has a bunch of cans of black soybeans
> on sale for cheap. If one goes by the nutritional information
> on the can they do not have nearly the oil content of normal
> soybeans.
>
> Maybe they're some sort of hybrid?

No. An old variety. Extremely low in carbs - very little oligosaccharide
content, so no "music" from them.

Not as waxy a tasty as pinto or kidney beans; still have a slight
soybean flavor and texture, but it's not bad.

I've used them both dried and canned. Both good. Eden brand canned
available in lots of stores. 25 pound bag of dry, also from Eden -
bought online.

I like them.

Pastorio

Ditto here.
I'd give my eye teeth to be able to get a bunch of canned ones on sale!
I love them and go back to strict low carb Feb. 1st. ;-)

Cheers!

Guess we will just have to wait until this summer. I am hoping to
have a decent garden this year and not get sick or break a limb. No
fun trying to pick veggies and can or freeze when you have a broken
arm.
--
Susan N.

Yeah, I plan to plant a bunch of the dry ones that I bought!
I have all new soil in the gardens ready to go, and have freed up some
t-posts and cattle panels to use for trellises. ;-)

I plan to plant a BUNCH of them!

I'm wondering how the young ones will be eaten as pod beans? Limas are
good that way.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:15:38 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Steve Pope) said:

serene said:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 03:00:53 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What, exactly, are black soybeans? Specifically do they provide
complete protein, in the same fashion as ordinary soybeans, or
are they more like other beans in being incomplete?

Quoted message said:

The whole "complete protein" thing is an outmoded concept, which even
Francis Moore Lappe says in her newer books. It's just not necessary
to get "complete" protein in every meal, or to combine proteins to
make sure you have all your amino acids balanced at all times.

Right. "At all times", sure. But the concept can't be a
complete myth -- you would still contract pellagra if your diet
is lysine-deficient.

http://www.life.ca/nl/64/protein.html

(A quote: " Although it is true we do need to eat foods that contain
essential amino acids (E.A.A.), i.e. protein building blocks that
cannot, unlike other amino acids, be formed in the body, it is not
true that only animal products and one or two exceptional plant source
foods contain all eight E.A.A.s. The truth is that all foods except
animal gelatine, (which was bone that had tryptophan processed out of
it) contain all E.A.A.s.

"There’s some of every E.A.A. in each gram of protein of every food
listed. The sources of this hard-to-get information, Thorson’s Guide
to Amino Acids by Leon Chaitow (1991) and Nutrition Almanac, (McGraw
Hill, 1979) are both very reputable."😉

And a quote from Francis Moore Lappe herself (note especially the last
sentence):

"When I first wrote Diet for a Small Planet in 1971, the idea that
people could live well without meat seemed much more controversial
than it does today. I felt I had to prove to nutritionists and doctors
that because we could combine proteins to create foods equal in
protein usability to meat, people could thrive on a non-meat or
low-meat diet. Today, few dispute that people can thrive on this kind
of diet. In fact, more and more health professionals are actually
advocating less meat precisely for health reasons, reasons I discussed
in 'America's Experimental Diet.' In 1971 I stressed protein
complementarity because I assumed that the only way to get enough
protein (without consuming too many calories) was to create a protein
as usable by the body as animal protein. In combating the myth that
meat is the only way to get high-quality protein, I reinforced another
myth. I gave the impression that in order to get enough protein
without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing foods."

serene

serene said:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:15:38 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

serene <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 03:00:53 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The whole "complete protein" thing is an outmoded concept, which even
Francis Moore Lappe says in her newer books. It's just not necessary
to get "complete" protein in every meal, or to combine proteins to
make sure you have all your amino acids balanced at all times.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right. "At all times", sure. But the concept can't be a
complete myth -- you would still contract pellagra if your diet
is lysine-deficient.

Quoted message said:

http://www.life.ca/nl/64/protein.html

Quoted message said:

(A quote: " Although it is true we do need to eat foods that contain
essential amino acids (E.A.A.), i.e. protein building blocks that
cannot, unlike other amino acids, be formed in the body, it is not
true that only animal products and one or two exceptional plant source
foods contain all eight E.A.A.s. The truth is that all foods except
animal gelatine, (which was bone that had tryptophan processed out of
it) contain all E.A.A.s.

Quoted message said:

"There’s some of every E.A.A. in each gram of protein of every food
listed. The sources of this hard-to-get information, Thorson’s Guide
to Amino Acids by Leon Chaitow (1991) and Nutrition Almanac, (McGraw
Hill, 1979) are both very reputable."😉

And a quote from Francis Moore Lappe herself (note especially the last
sentence):

"When I first wrote Diet for a Small Planet in 1971, the idea that
people could live well without meat seemed much more controversial
than it does today. I felt I had to prove to nutritionists and doctors
that because we could combine proteins to create foods equal in
protein usability to meat, people could thrive on a non-meat or
low-meat diet. Today, few dispute that people can thrive on this kind
of diet. In fact, more and more health professionals are actually
advocating less meat precisely for health reasons, reasons I discussed
in 'America's Experimental Diet.' In 1971 I stressed protein
complementarity because I assumed that the only way to get enough
protein (without consuming too many calories) was to create a protein
as usable by the body as animal protein. In combating the myth that
meat is the only way to get high-quality protein, I reinforced another
myth. I gave the impression that in order to get enough protein
without meat, considerable care was needed in choosing foods."

She's all over the map on this one isn't she.

Thanks for the link. There is clearly some innuendo in Salzberg's
article -- in order to knock down the so-called complete protein
myth, he wildly overstates it.

If I compare his chart with the information I posted the other
day from Davis and Melina, soy and garbanzos are the only plant protein
sources on the list that are not lysine deficient, and garbanzos
are tryptophan and methionine deficient. Soy is the only complete
protein on the plant source list, just as we were always taught.

I'm gonna have to track down the references he lists -- Thorson's
Guide to Amino Acids and Nutrition Almanac.

Steve