Black Ice

Garry from Cork said the following on 09/01/2008 06:55:

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

Not really an option when you have to get to work though. If everyone
stopped doing anything because of this, that or the other then we might
as well curl up and die. There's enough nanny-stating going on from the
government, without having it here as well.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

In article said:

Garry from Cork said the following on 09/01/2008 06:55:

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

Not really an option when you have to get to work though.

For some people it might be a day to consider catching the train instead,
or driving (cautiously, not spinning across the road and bouncing off
a wall into cyclists, obviously).
For others, going back home just for long enough to get the studded
tyres out then off on the bike again. (That doesn't work so well if
you are already at work and its frozen on the way home, of course.)

Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

Garry from Cork said the following on 09/01/2008 06:55:

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

Not really an option when you have to get to work though. If everyone
stopped doing anything because of this, that or the other then we might
as well curl up and die. There's enough nanny-stating going on from the
government, without having it here as well.

I know Garry has had some run-ins on this NG in the past but be fair.
He highlighted a hazard, noting that many may already be aware and not
need to read on, and then said what his strategy for mitigating the
risk is and why "/My/ rule" (my emphasis). I think you would be more
justified in your response if he had suggested that everyone else
ought to follow his example, but he didn't.

best wishes
james

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

Garry from Cork said the following on 09/01/2008 06:55:

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

Not really an option when you have to get to work though. If everyone
stopped doing anything because of this, that or the other then we might
as well curl up and die. There's enough nanny-stating going on from the
government, without having it here as well.

I know Garry has had some run-ins on this NG in the past but be fair.
He highlighted a hazard, noting that many may already be aware and not
need to read on, and then said what his strategy for mitigating the
risk is and why "/My/ rule" (my emphasis). I think you would be more
justified in your response if he had suggested that everyone else
ought to follow his example, but he didn't.

best wishes
james

There's a difference between saying "My rule is, if /you're/ (my
emphasis).." and "My rule is, if /I'm/ going cycling..." etc.

Graham

Quoted message said:

For some people it might be a day to consider catching the train instead,
or driving (cautiously, not spinning across the road and bouncing off
a wall into cyclists, obviously).
For others, going back home just for long enough to get the studded
tyres out then off on the bike again.

I have never had no alternative to the bike, but I would consider a
tricycle of some sort if I really needed to keep cycling.

Having said that I do cycle in the cold and not on a trike.

Last weekend I was one of several in the club who had a scary moment
on ice, but there were no falls that day.

[email hidden] said the following on 09/01/2008 09:22:

Quoted message said:

I know Garry has had some run-ins on this NG in the past but be fair.
He highlighted a hazard, noting that many may already be aware and not
need to read on, and then said what his strategy for mitigating the
risk is and why "/My/ rule" (my emphasis). I think you would be more
justified in your response if he had suggested that everyone else
ought to follow his example, but he didn't.

Quoting Garry, but my emphasis:-

"*My* rule is, if *you're* going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on
*your* ears, go home."

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Alan Braggins said the following on 09/01/2008 09:15:

Quoted message said:

For some people it might be a day to consider catching the train instead,
or driving (cautiously, not spinning across the road and bouncing off
a wall into cyclists, obviously).

My only options are cycling or driving, or walking I suppose. Frankly,
in cold and icy conditions I feel happier on my bike, although a lot of
my commute is on cycle lanes rather than road, so less risk of sliding
under a lorry. The only dodgy bit is that on one roundabout, cars come
sliding around it way too fast straight towards the cycle lane.

Quoted message said:

For others, going back home just for long enough to get the studded
tyres out then off on the bike again.

Yeah, right - and we've all got studded tyres to hand!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Garry from Cork said:

Many of you will know this, so don't read it.

If you don't do.

Black Ice is deadly because you can't see it and because it's
unbelievably slippery.

It is caused when below-freezing air, supersaturated with water-vapour
hits something solid like the road.

Are you sure you're a scientist?
It forms an instant sheet of ice

Quoted message said:

without the tell-tale crystals of frost, so you cannot see it.

Although it seems women can see it as they have far less car accidents
on black ice than men

Quoted message said:

I had a terrible fall on it about 10 years ago, though no injuries.
You fall really hard as the bike will be whipped sideways.

Why am I posting this.

Because a cycling Slovakian colleague, who should've known better than
to cycle in really cold conditions, a man in his late thirties, broke
the neck of his femur when he fell on it a week ago.

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

I think a better rule would be to break all contact with gary from cork,
freak accidents seem to happen to people he knows

In article <8660499e-6616-4c43-95f5-
[email hidden]>, Garry from Cork
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

I broke my hip on a diesel spill - does that mean I should never cycle
where diesel might get spilled? And should I post that here in the form
of a rule?

Rob Morley said:

In article <8660499e-6616-4c43-95f5-
[email hidden]>, Garry from Cork
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

I broke my hip on a diesel spill - does that mean I should never cycle
where diesel might get spilled? �And should I post that here in the form
of a rule?

I had a spill on ice about 30 years ago. Just outside my house it was,
bloody hurt I can tell you but although I couldn't continue into work
that particular day it hasn't stopped me riding in the cold since. I
just go a little more carefully. Paradoxically, roads are probably
safer in these conditions than cycle routes as roads get "gritted"

[email hidden] said the following on 09/01/2008 11:31:

Quoted message said:

Paradoxically, roads are probably
safer in these conditions than cycle routes as roads get "gritted"

Round here, everything within ten yards of the gritter gets gritted!!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Rob Morley said:

In article <8660499e-6616-4c43-95f5-
[email hidden]>, Garry from Cork
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

I broke my hip on a diesel spill - does that mean I should never cycle
where diesel might get spilled? And should I post that here in the
form of a rule?

Ice is more common and predictable than diesel.

I broke my hip by taking a bad line round a corner on a damp greasy road. I
now take all corners more slowly and minimise the amount of cycling I do in
freezing conditions.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <8660499e-6616-4c43-95f5-
[email hidden]>, Garry from Cork
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.

I broke my hip on a diesel spill - does that mean I should never cycle
where diesel might get spilled? And should I post that here in the
form of a rule?

Ice is more common and predictable than diesel.

More common?

Number of freezing days in a year?

I have no idea but at a guess I would say about 30ish

Number of Mondays when lorrys have overtopped their tanks and spill on
the first bend.

51-53

Predictable

Diesel on the road outside every fuel forecourt?

marc said:

Quoted message said:

Ice is more common and predictable than diesel.

More common?

More commonly a problem.

Quoted message said:

Number of freezing days in a year?

I have no idea but at a guess I would say about 30ish

Quoted message said:

Number of Mondays when lorrys have overtopped their tanks and spill on
the first bend.

51-53

Predictable

Diesel on the road outside every fuel forecourt?

I rarely come accross enough diesel or oil on the road to cause a slip when
cornering at normal speed. I put it in the freak accident category. It's
more common to slip on ice, IMO, and easier to predict which days will be a
problem.

~PB

marc said:

Quoted message said:

Ice is more common and predictable than diesel.

More common?

In quantities and concentrations and places likely to cause problems for
cyclists, yes indeed -- unless you don't cycle when it's freezing.

~PB

I cycle to work. If it's icy I walk with the bike, and cycle home in
the afternoon if warmer. I don't care if I'm late as I'm of no value
if I've a broken hip. I'm the boss anyway so that's an advantage!!

Black ice really is awful stuff. Hit it once in my car. Car spun
totally around and I went onto the grass verge, pointing in the
opposite direction. No damage fortunately, and I was not driving
fast.

I actually do no many people injured on bikes, and have known six who
were killed. As some of you may know, I got a bad hand injury about
4.5 months ago. I'm back cycling for the last couple of months and can
cycle fine, though the hand will never be perfect. But, a minor enough
ailment when you see what befalls some people.

The point about skidding on ice is that you get a ferocious whack
compared to an ordinary fall, as the bike is whipped sideways.

"marc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Garry from Cork said:

Many of you will know this, so don't read it.

If you don't do.

Black Ice is deadly because you can't see it and because it's
unbelievably slippery.

It is caused when below-freezing air, supersaturated with water-vapour
hits something solid like the road.

Are you sure you're a scientist?
It forms an instant sheet of ice

Quoted message said:

without the tell-tale crystals of frost, so you cannot see it.

Although it seems women can see it as they have far less car accidents on
black ice than men

Is that because they see it or because they drive more slowly anyway?

"marc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

Rob Morley said:

In article <8660499e-6616-4c43-95f5-
[email hidden]>, Garry from Cork
[email hidden] says...
> My rule is, if you're going cycling and it feels REALLY cold on your
> ears, go home. Or check the temperature and if anywhere near zero, go
> home. Breaking your hip is a big deal.
>
>
I broke my hip on a diesel spill - does that mean I should never cycle
where diesel might get spilled? And should I post that here in the
form of a rule?

Ice is more common and predictable than diesel.

More common?

Yes. Diesel spills affect one small section of road whereas freezing
conditions can affect half the country on a given day. There would have to
be an awful lot more diesel spills than freezing conditions per year for the
probability of encountering a diesel spill to be higher.

Quoted message said:

Number of freezing days in a year?

I have no idea but at a guess I would say about 30ish

Number of Mondays when lorrys have overtopped their tanks and spill on the
first bend.

51-53

Predictable

Diesel on the road outside every fuel forecourt?

Adam Lea said:

"marc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Garry from Cork said:

Many of you will know this, so don't read it.

If you don't do.

Black Ice is deadly because you can't see it and because it's
unbelievably slippery.

It is caused when below-freezing air, supersaturated with water-vapour
hits something solid like the road.

Are you sure you're a scientist?
It forms an instant sheet of ice

Quoted message said:

without the tell-tale crystals of frost, so you cannot see it.

Although it seems women can see it as they have far less car accidents on
black ice than men

Is that because they see it or because they drive more slowly anyway?

Or less likely to blame something else apart from themselves?