BikesDirect safe to buy from?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?
Its hard to ignore their good prices!

I haven't bought from them, but "Sporty Mama" sells the same
bikes for less money on eBay and I have bought from her. It
was fine - the price was good (actually, the price was
great), the bike arrived quickly and as described. It was
missing the seatpost clamp, though, and when I emailed her
about it a new one arrived very, very fast.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - [email hidden]

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Its hard to ignore their good prices!

Keep the following in mind:

1) Ignore the hype and read the spec on each model carefully. Pay
attention to the "small stuff", not just the "Dura-Ace!", "Ultegra!",
etc., parts.

2) Do your homework on sizing. Their info is pretty simplistic,
although no worse than what many shops offer.

3) The bike will need to be set-up by a skilled and experienced
mechanic. If that's not you, line up a pro. $50 -100 is a fair amount
to pay, depending on your expectations and what stuff you may be able
to do yourself.

You can get a good bike for a great price from BikesDirect, *if* you
do your homework.

"You get what you pay for if you know what you're doing; otherwise,
you get what you deserve" - Frank Berto

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Quoted message said:

Its hard to ignore their good prices!

Keep the following in mind:

1) Ignore the hype and read the spec on each model carefully. Pay
attention to the "small stuff", not just the "Dura-Ace!", "Ultegra!",
etc., parts.

Ya--things like hubs and whatnot are usually pretty gimpy, but if
you're handy with a wrench, even cheap ones can be serviced to be
reliable.

Quoted message said:

2) Do your homework on sizing. Their info is pretty simplistic,
although no worse than what many shops offer.

3) The bike will need to be set-up by a skilled and experienced
mechanic. If that's not you, line up a pro. $50 -100 is a fair amount
to pay, depending on your expectations and what stuff you may be able
to do yourself.

I came pretty close to ordering a touring/cxcross bike from them
simply because my LBS doesn't sell any good all rounders short of
hybrids. Actually, if I'd seen that "Motobecane" crosser for $500 that
they now are offering--I'd have bought it. It's Tiagra with Sora
shifters and a 8spd cluster. Not fancy, but also not fussy. Cheap
consumables. Mounts for racks and fenders. Stealth grey. Put some big
flat mtb pedals on there, and ya got the functionality of a gRant bike
for peanuts.

Quoted message said:

You can get a good bike for a great price from BikesDirect, *if* you
do your homework.

Yeah--read those specs closely--and be prepared to pay somebody to
dial in the wheels if you don't know how.

sprtymomma on eBay is good as mentioned--neighbor got a simple fixed
gear from her. Cheap and as advertised on the tin.

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Its hard to ignore their good prices!

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like this one?
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm

Says it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't find a
bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price, you'll find
bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a chrome-moly fork... nothing
wrong with that, but they're quite a bit cheaper and rarely found on "road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the shifting is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted shifters, last
seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years ago. That bike, if sold in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would be fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the dealer.

I love this line- "Windsor lists this bike at $670 bikesdirect.com sells for
$299 delivered to your door SAVE OVER 50% OFF!"

Never mind the fact that bikesdirect *owns* the Windsor name; you won't find
it anywhere else.

They could be honest about their values and still sell bikes. But they
choose instead to be deceptive about what they're selling. I guess it sells
more bikes; maybe we'd sell more if we artificially inflated the "list"
price of our bikes to double their actual selling price? But I don't think
so; I think our customers are smarter than that. I hope they are.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Better to inflate their list prices than sale prices like bike shops
do. A Trek 1.2 will sell for $760 or so with sora [censored]. For $100
more you get Ultegra 30 speed der.amd shifters, vuelta wheels, carbon
stays etc. I've yet to see a comparable bike to the Motobecane Sprint
in a bike shop for <$900. So avoid the ripoff of many bike shops and
buy froms bikesdirect. I bought a bike from them and feel it was a
deal. NO shop could sell a bike with the same spec for the same
price. If you in TXyou can buy these bikes from their shop.

On Oct 24, 8:16 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Quoted message said:

Its hard to ignore their good prices!

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like this one?http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm

Says it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't find a
bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price, you'll find
bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a chrome-moly fork... nothing
wrong with that, but they're quite a bit cheaper and rarely found on "road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the shifting is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted shifters, last
seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years ago. That bike, if sold in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would be fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the dealer.

I love this line- "Windsor lists this bike at $670 bikesdirect.com sells for
$299 delivered to your door SAVE OVER 50% OFF!"

Never mind the fact that bikesdirect *owns* the Windsor name; you won't find
it anywhere else.

They could be honest about their values and still sell bikes. But they
choose instead to be deceptive about what they're selling. I guess it sells
more bikes; maybe we'd sell more if we artificially inflated the "list"
price of our bikes to double their actual selling price? But I don't think
so; I think our customers are smarter than that. I hope they are.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Sprtymama charges shipping bijkesdirect does not

n Oct 24 said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?
Its hard to ignore their good prices!

I haven't bought from them, but "Sporty Mama" sells the same
bikes for less money on eBay and I have bought from her. It
was fine - the price was good (actually, the price was
great), the bike arrived quickly and as described. It was
missing the seatpost clamp, though, and when I emailed her
about it a new one arrived very, very fast.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - [email hidden]

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Sprtymama charges shipping bijkesdirect does not

I know, but it still came out cheaper (I can do arithmetic).
Remember, there's no such thing as "free" - those guys are
folding shipping charges into the price. Same basic
ballpark, though. For $30 difference or whatever it was on
the bike I bought if you're more comfortable with
bikesdirect.com it's not a huge deal.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - [email hidden]

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On Oct 24, 7:16 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Quoted message said:

Its hard to ignore their good prices!

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like this one?http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm

Says it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't find a
bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price, you'll find
bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a chrome-moly fork... nothing
wrong with that, but they're quite a bit cheaper and rarely found on "road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the shifting is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted shifters, last
seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years ago. That bike, if sold in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would be fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the dealer.

Just curious - do you offer a bike like that for "$399 or so"?

Quoted message said:

I love this line- "Windsor lists this bike at $670 bikesdirect.com sells for
$299 delivered to your door SAVE OVER 50% OFF!"

Who cares, really? Should we go to the various Trek Empire sites and
nitpick the many forms of hype found there?

Quoted message said:

Never mind the fact that bikesdirect *owns* the Windsor name; you won't find
it anywhere else.

Do you sell any bicycles which are not part of the Trek Empire?

BikesDirect has captive brands, and Trek has captive stores. BFD.

Quoted message said:

They could be honest about their values and still sell bikes. But they
choose instead to be deceptive about what they're selling. I guess it sells
more bikes; maybe we'd sell more if we artificially inflated the "list"
price of our bikes to double their actual selling price? But I don't think
so; I think our customers are smarter than that. I hope they are.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Quoted message said:

Better to inflate their list prices than sale prices like bike shops
do. A Trek 1.2 will sell for $760 or so with sora [censored]. For $100
more you get Ultegra 30 speed der.amd shifters, vuelta wheels, carbon
stays etc. I've yet to see a comparable bike to the Motobecane Sprint
in a bike shop for <$900. So avoid the ripoff of many bike shops and
buy froms bikesdirect. I bought a bike from them and feel it was a
deal. NO shop could sell a bike with the same spec for the same
price. If you in TXyou can buy these bikes from their shop.

Buying the bike from their shop would be great! Then you could test ride a
fully assembled bike, test ride it, have them fit you and change the stem
height/reach (or both), handlebar width, alter gearing to make it more
appropriate if need be... all the usual stuff. Things difficult to do by
mail.

Their $895.95 bike but has, as you point out, Ultegra shifters only, not
brakes, not cranks, not cassette. Of course, their ad says "Shimano Ultegra
30 speed road bike." Still inexpensive, but hardly a full Ultegra bike (the
cranks alone are a $250 upcharge from the TruVativs shown... and hugely
superior... the brakes, no big deal, Ultegra brakes cost quite a bit but if
you put KoolStop pads into the Tektro brakes, they'll work just fine). In no
stretch of the imagination is it a $2095 "list" price bike. Well, I guess it
is, because they can say whatever they want, since it's their house brand.
But they'd be hard pressed to claim anyone, at anytime, ever sold one for
anything near that price, calling into question what it is.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Quoted message said:

Its hard to ignore their good prices!

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like this
one?http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm

Says it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't find a
bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price, you'll find
bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a chrome-moly fork... nothing
wrong with that, but they're quite a bit cheaper and rarely found on
"road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the shifting
is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted shifters, last
seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years ago. That bike, if sold
in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would be
fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the
dealer.

Just curious - do you offer a bike like that for "$399 or so"?

It's been tried; so far, doesn't seem to be any demand for such machines.
It's often debated at product meetings. Do you see much demand for that sort
of bike in your area? Just curious.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I love this line- "Windsor lists this bike at $670 bikesdirect.com sells
for
$299 delivered to your door SAVE OVER 50% OFF!"

Who cares, really? Should we go to the various Trek Empire sites and
nitpick the many forms of hype found there?

Sure, be my guest. Look over the Trek websites and find me something
similar. Bikesdirect is borderline fraud. Nowhere do they tell you that
they're the only outlet for their bikes; they imply that you'll find them
somewhere else for the "list" price.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Never mind the fact that bikesdirect *owns* the Windsor name; you won't
find
it anywhere else.

Do you sell any bicycles which are not part of the Trek Empire?

No. That matters because?

Quoted message said:

BikesDirect has captive brands, and Trek has captive stores. BFD.

Trek has a very small number of concept stores, probably fewer than 20.
Those stores are under contract to sell "x" percent Trek product, but are
allowed, I believe, up to 20% sales in 2nd-tier bike lines (not Giant or
Specialized, for example, but something fitting into a market niche of some
sort, rather than another broad line such as Trek is).

We're a bit of an anomaly. We are not, and never will be, a "concept" store.
Chain Reaction Bicycles has its own way of doing business, its own name,
something I've worked on for 29 years. Our name will never change from Chain
Reaction Bicycles to "Trek store Redwood City" & "Trek store Los Altos." And
yet it's true, we sell 100% product from Trek (as far as bicycles; entirely
different situation in all other categories).

I'm wondering where you feel that our being 100% Trek bicycle inventory is
similar to grossly misrepresenting the value of a product. We make no
inflated claims about the retail value of our product. When we have
something on sale, it's truly on sale, a markdown from pricing that we did,
in fact, sell the product for. That is not the case for bikes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They could be honest about their values and still sell bikes. But they
choose instead to be deceptive about what they're selling. I guess it
sells
more bikes; maybe we'd sell more if we artificially inflated the "list"
price of our bikes to double their actual selling price? But I don't
think
so; I think our customers are smarter than that. I hope they are.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Sure, be my guest. Look over the Trek websites and find me something
similar. Bikesdirect is borderline fraud. Nowhere do they tell you that
they're the only outlet for their bikes; they imply that you'll find them
somewhere else for the "list" price.

Not true. I know of at least one LBS in Seattle that sells
Motobecanes. And while nowhere near the "list price" at BD, the prices
charged are more than BD but only slightly less than the comparably
equipped bikes by other manufacturers. BD has also occasionally
carried Fujis, which are widely available at retail.

And as many others have said, there are other sellers of those lines.
It may be that SportyMama on ebay is the same entity (both are in
Texas), but I don't know that for sure and I'm 85% sure you don't,
either.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sure, be my guest. Look over the Trek websites and find me something
similar. Bikesdirect is borderline fraud. Nowhere do they tell you that
they're the only outlet for their bikes; they imply that you'll find them
somewhere else for the "list" price.

Not true. I know of at least one LBS in Seattle that sells
Motobecanes. And while nowhere near the "list price" at BD, the prices
charged are more than BD but only slightly less than the comparably
equipped bikes by other manufacturers. BD has also occasionally
carried Fujis, which are widely available at retail.

And as many others have said, there are other sellers of those lines.
It may be that SportyMama on ebay is the same entity (both are in
Texas), but I don't know that for sure and I'm 85% sure you don't,
either.

That's interesting, and here's why. Just for kicks, we sent them information
regarding becoming a dealer. It was quite clear they had no interest (no
returned email, no returned phone call). Nothing's changed on their dealer
locater since then; it still requests that you contact bikesdirect directly.
If I were an LBS carrying their bikes, that wouldn't make me very happy.

Which shop in seattle is selling them? Inquiring minds want to know!

(As far as carrying Fuji, they've gone through many changes in distribution
over the years, but were never a "house" brand. Bikesdirect likely carried
them when they were primarily sold through various mail-order outlets. There
was a time when the Fuji warehouses were quite full of product and bikes
were quite cheap.)

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sure, be my guest. Look over the Trek websites and find me something
similar. Bikesdirect is borderline fraud. Nowhere do they tell you that
they're the only outlet for their bikes; they imply that you'll find them
somewhere else for the "list" price.

Quoted message said:

Not true. I know of at least one LBS in Seattle that sells
Motobecanes.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Which shop in seattle is selling them? Inquiring minds want to know!

Alpine Hut.

At least they were three years ago when I was thinking about getting a
500HT from Bikedirect (I wound up getting a GT Avalanche 1.0 instead)
and I wanted to see what one looked like in real life. They only had
the 700HT in stock, and that was more than I wanted to spend at the
time. I just now checked their web site, and they're only listing
Raleigh and Felt now, so maybe that changed. Sorry if my contradiction
came off as jerk-like.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

> Its hard to ignore their good prices!

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like
this
one?http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm Says
it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't
find a bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price,
you'll find bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a
chrome-moly fork... nothing wrong with that, but they're quite a
bit cheaper and rarely found on "road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the
shifting is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted
shifters, last seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years
ago. That bike, if sold in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would
be fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the
dealer.

Just curious - do you offer a bike like that for "$399 or so"?

It's been tried; so far, doesn't seem to be any demand for such
machines. It's often debated at product meetings. Do you see much
demand for that sort of bike in your area? Just curious.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I love this line- "Windsor lists this bike at $670 bikesdirect.com
sells for
$299 delivered to your door SAVE OVER 50% OFF!"

Who cares, really? Should we go to the various Trek Empire sites and
nitpick the many forms of hype found there?

Sure, be my guest. Look over the Trek websites and find me something
similar. Bikesdirect is borderline fraud. Nowhere do they tell you
that they're the only outlet for their bikes; they imply that you'll
find them somewhere else for the "list" price.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Never mind the fact that bikesdirect *owns* the Windsor name; you
won't find
it anywhere else.

Do you sell any bicycles which are not part of the Trek Empire?

No. That matters because?

Quoted message said:

BikesDirect has captive brands, and Trek has captive stores. BFD.

Trek has a very small number of concept stores, probably fewer than
20. Those stores are under contract to sell "x" percent Trek product,
but are allowed, I believe, up to 20% sales in 2nd-tier bike lines
(not Giant or Specialized, for example, but something fitting into a
market niche of some sort, rather than another broad line such as
Trek is).
We're a bit of an anomaly. We are not, and never will be, a "concept"
store. Chain Reaction Bicycles has its own way of doing business, its
own name, something I've worked on for 29 years. Our name will never
change from Chain Reaction Bicycles to "Trek store Redwood City" &
"Trek store Los Altos." And yet it's true, we sell 100% product from
Trek (as far as bicycles; entirely different situation in all other
categories).
I'm wondering where you feel that our being 100% Trek bicycle
inventory is similar to grossly misrepresenting the value of a
product. We make no inflated claims about the retail value of our
product. When we have something on sale, it's truly on sale, a
markdown from pricing that we did, in fact, sell the product for.
That is not the case for bikes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They could be honest about their values and still sell bikes. But
they choose instead to be deceptive about what they're selling. I
guess it sells
more bikes; maybe we'd sell more if we artificially inflated the
"list" price of our bikes to double their actual selling price? But
I don't think
so; I think our customers are smarter than that. I hope they are.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike, could you PLEASE start identifying who the heck you're addressing in
your posts? How is it that your newsreader deletes all the attributions in
the first place? It really gets confusing and somewhat frustrating...

Thanks.

BS (no, really)

Even upgrading the no name bottom bracket and better brakes etc still
puts you well below what a comparable bike shop bike would cost.
Cassette? Any shimano cassette will shift fine so level doesnt
matter.

On Oct 24, 10:23 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Buying the bike from their shop would be great! Then you could test ride a
fully assembled bike, test ride it, have them fit you and change the stem
height/reach (or both), handlebar width, alter gearing to make it more
appropriate if need be... all the usual stuff. Things difficult to do by
mail.

Their $895.95 bike but has, as you point out, Ultegra shifters only, not
brakes, not cranks, not cassette. Of course, their ad says "Shimano Ultegra
30 speed road bike." Still inexpensive, but hardly a full Ultegra bike (the
cranks alone are a $250 upcharge from the TruVativs shown... and hugely
superior... the brakes, no big deal, Ultegra brakes cost quite a bit but if
you put KoolStop pads into the Tektro brakes, they'll work just fine). In no
stretch of the imagination is it a $2095 "list" price bike. Well, I guess it
is, because they can say whatever they want, since it's their house brand.
But they'd be hard pressed to claim anyone, at anytime, ever sold one for
anything near that price, calling into question what it is.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Its hard to ignore their good prices!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like this
one?http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Says it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't find a
bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price, you'll find
bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a chrome-moly fork... nothing
wrong with that, but they're quite a bit cheaper and rarely found on
"road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the shifting
is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted shifters, last
seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years ago. That bike, if sold
in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would be
fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the
dealer.

Quoted message said:

Just curious - do you offer a bike like that for "$399 or so"?

It's been tried; so far, doesn't seem to be any demand for such machines.
It's often debated at product meetings. Do you see much demand for that sort
of bike in your area? Just curious.

IMO, the demand for a viable $300-400 "road bike" is obvious. I can
see where Trek, etc., would see it as siphoning off the sales of more
expensive models. At present, the big makers (C'dale, Giant, Trek,
Specialized, etc.) have sucessfully perpetrated the illusion that
entry level "road bikes" are in the ~$700 range. That's a disservice
to the end users.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Any caveats when buying a bike form them?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Its hard to ignore their good prices!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean their artificially-inflated suggested retail prices? Like this
one?http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/wellington1_08.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Says it "lists" for $670. On "sale" for $299. Trust me, you won't find a
bike at $670 with those specs in a bike shop. At that price, you'll find
bikes with carbon forks (the bike shown has a chrome-moly fork... nothing
wrong with that, but they're quite a bit cheaper and rarely found on
"road"
bikes unless it's made for touring) and STI shifters (where the shifting
is
in the brake lever). The bike in question has stem-mounted shifters, last
seen on a road bike in a bike shop maybe 10 years ago. That bike, if sold
in
a shop, might reasonably fetch $399 or so. And, of course, it would be
fully
assembled, with a local warranty, and hopefully properly fit by the
dealer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I love this line- "Windsor lists this bike at $670 bikesdirect.com sells
for
$299 delivered to your door SAVE OVER 50% OFF!"

Quoted message said:

Who cares, really? Should we go to the various Trek Empire sites and
nitpick the many forms of hype found there?

Sure, be my guest. Look over the Trek websites and find me something
similar.

Hype comes in many flavors; Trek flings alot high tech BS instead of
focusing on discounts. Is the illusion of a big discount any more
deceptive than the implied promises of "going faster" due to lighter
weight, increased stiffness, better aerodynamics, etc.? From this
neutral perspective, the answer is "no".

Quoted message said:

I haven't bought from them, but "Sporty Mama"

Never heard of them but will check them out

Quoted message said:

Actually, if I'd seen that "Motobecane" crosser for $500 that
they now are offering--I'd have bought it

That's what I'm thinking of buying form Bikes
Direct.... the Motebecane cross bike

Any opinions on it?