bikes that don't steer

martin said:

An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
@centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
does not seem to help either.

After how long does this problem develop? As you say, it's an old chestnut---I'm sure you've Googled
for past threads on the subject---and I'm beginning to feel nervously unusual in that my steering
feels just the same as it did 20,000 miles ago. Am I doing something wrong? Or could the long
head-tube on a 25" frame make a difference to the longevity of the headset?

Henry Braun said:

martin said:

An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
@centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
does not seem to help either.

After how long does this problem develop? As you say, it's an old chestnut---I'm sure you've
Googled for past threads on the subject---and I'm beginning to feel nervously unusual in that my
steering feels just the same as it did 20,000 miles ago. Am I doing something wrong? Or could the
long head-tube on a 25" frame make a difference to the longevity of the headset?

Do you check and maintain your headset? I had one that wouldn't stay tight and it very quickly got
this notching. My current headset has little grub screws to stop it turning and, apart from one
tightening after about a month, it has needed no adjustment and has got no play.

I think if there is even a tiny amount of play then the vibration from the road causes the bearings
to dent the races.

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

tjw.hn.orgtjw.hn.orgOpen ↗ locofungus.btinternet.co.uklocofungus.btinternet.co.ukOpen ↗

martin <[email hidden]> wrote:
: An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
: @centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
: out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
: does not seem to help either.

Any decent one which isn't overtighten.

If you are getting this, it's cos your headset is too tight. Buy a new one (don't bother turning the
cups 90 degrees, headsets are cheap).

Spend 20 quid and you'll get one that will last for many years. Just get someone other than the
person who installed the last one to install it.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

martin <[email hidden]> wrote:
: An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
: @centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to
: knock out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An
: Ahead stem does not seem to help either.

Any decent one which isn't overtighten.

Ah. Mine's like that. Last words to mechanic "are you sure thats not too tight". [They were having a
very hard time in that shop at the time though] Also a non-too-dry garage can't help.

Quoted message said:

If you are getting this, it's cos your headset is too tight. Buy a new one (don't bother turning
the cups 90 degrees, headsets are cheap).

Spend 20 quid and you'll get one that will last for many years. Just get someone other than the
person who installed the last one to install it.

I imagine its not even worth thinking about doing it yourself ?

W K <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I imagine its not even worth thinking about doing it yourself ?

Some people do. Personally it's one of the two things on my bike I don't do myself (the other being
wheelbuilding).

You can fit a headset with a hammer and a couple of blocks of wood, but using a proper headset press
makes it much less likely that you'll bork your frame.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
Lord Lester

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

W K <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I imagine its not even worth thinking about doing it yourself ?

Some people do. Personally it's one of the two things on my bike I don't do myself (the other
being wheelbuilding).

You can fit a headset with a hammer and a couple of blocks of wood, but using a proper headset
press makes it much less likely that you'll bork your frame.

Its a threaded by the way. What about the extraction? I suppose its on Sheldon Brown, but its
just for the kind of thing that I like some nodding or shaking heads and "phhhh"ing to figure out
how hard it
is.

I have a big enough garage with enough spare pieces of wood to make some sort of jig to bash things
without putting forces on the frame (probable replacement value <80 squids.).

martin said:

An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
@centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy.

Even the most basic cheap ones should not do that if properly adjusted and kept lubricated. If
difficult to adjust properly (ie. get passed the point of play but with no binding), get head
tube re-faced.

However, if you do want an virtual guarantee of no-notching, then a needle/roller bearing type
headset is the thing, eg. Stronglight A9. Trouble is, they can run with more friction and be more
difficult to adjust right.

Quoted message said:

I've been advised to knock out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause
more problems.

No, that will help, for a bit. Replacing caged balls with loose balls may also help a little (more
balls to share the load). Note. The problem might seem to go away simply by re-lubing ....but it'll
be back a few miles later :-(

I think you might as well get a new headset now (a cheap one will do if you don't mind heavy steel)
and get it *properly* installed and adjusted.

~PB

W K wrote: [on DIY headset fitting]

Quoted message said:

Its a threaded by the way. What about the extraction? I suppose its on Sheldon Brown, but its just
for the kind of thing that I like some nodding or shaking heads and "phhhh"ing to figure out how
hard it is.

I have a big enough garage with enough spare pieces of wood to make some sort of jig to bash
things without putting forces on the frame (probable replacement value <80 squids.).

With any decent bike, I don't think it's worth risking busting frame or headset with bodging. Apart
from anything else, some modern alloy headset cups and races are very flimsy and can easily be bent.
Tightness of press fit varies from bike to bike and headset to headset. Some are easy, some are
[censored]-tight. For the latter, proper tools really are needed, IMO. Trouble is, you won't know how
easy the job will be until you start.

I fit my own headsets using Cyclus headset press and remover tools (for head tube cups) which are
relatively inexpensive and a delight to use compared to any bodging. I haven't got round to getting
fork crown race tools yet, but should do. Hammer and screwdriver is not nice! :-)

Good instructions: parktool.comhowfix headset.shtmlOpen ↗

BTW, Anyone else find Stronlight A9 crown races are too small? Supposed to be correct English size
but didn't fit two of my forks without increasing the ID. :-( What a [censored] bodge!

~PB

"martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
@centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
does not seem to help either.

I _thought_ my stem had become notchy until I realised that it was actually the setting of the
brake/gear cables that were pushing the bars to the centre and putting up a resistance against going
off-centre - only noticed this effect on the stand.

Rich

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

martin said:

An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
@centre notch@ which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy.

Even the most basic cheap ones should not do that if properly adjusted and kept lubricated. If
difficult to adjust properly (ie. get passed the point of play but with no binding), get head tube
re-faced.

However, if you do want an virtual guarantee of no-notching, then a needle/roller bearing type
headset is the thing, eg. Stronglight A9. Trouble is, they can run with more friction and be more
difficult to adjust right.

Quoted message said:

I've been advised to knock out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause
more problems.

No, that will help, for a bit. Replacing caged balls with loose balls may also help a little (more
balls to share the load). Note. The problem might seem to go away simply by re-lubing ....but
it'll be back a few miles later :-(

I think you might as well get a new headset now (a cheap one will do if you don't mind heavy
steel) and get it *properly* installed and adjusted.

~PB

Thanks for all that. the Headset (Tange)came on the frame from Ribble but I had to put a Ahead stem
and spacers on. I might go for the needle bearing option as this seems the most worth-spending
-money -on option.