Bikes on "Le Shuttle"

AFAIK you can ONLY use the minibus/trailer service which runs in the summer.

From your comments it would appear you haven't been on Le Shuttle ?

Reality is that the way it works would be unrealistic for cycles to be
carried on a "ride on" basis - from safety and security perspectives, as
well as the not inconsiderable distances that are driven within the terminal
complexes on both sides.

It would be nice to have a minibus/trailer service all the year round ...
but demand would be impossibly low in the winter months I'm sure.

When on the train it is possible to get out of the car but there are no
facilities, other than toilets, so for the 35 mins or so it's pretty
pointless getting out of the vehicle.

Eurostar has equally odd rules about cycle carriage which, in effect, mean
that you check in your bike and can retrieve it at the destination the
following day .... although it is possible to take it as luggage in a bike
bag, subject to size restrictions related to the x-ray kit on security.

Non of that helps much ... but that's how it is. The upside, if it is
one, is that the ferry services all seem to have pretty straightforward all
the year round ride on cycle carriage.

RG

"Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed to
eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I also know that once onboard passengers are not confined to their
vehicles, so I can't see why solo bikes would be a problem. Can ayone
help clarify? Am I wrong, or is eurotunnel being a pain?

Cheers,

Ben Barker

Oh well, ferry it is then. I have taken a car on the shuttle before,
and couldn't see any problem with cycling on. While the terminal isn't
lovely, it was no more unpleasant for bikes than a ferry port, and the
inside of the train was far nicer than the car deck of a ferry. And it
only lasted half an hour anyway.

Since they let motorbikes ride solo, it seems a very odd decision. Oh
well :-(

Cheers,

Ben

RG said:

AFAIK you can ONLY use the minibus/trailer service which runs in the summer.

From your comments it would appear you haven't been on Le Shuttle ?

Reality is that the way it works would be unrealistic for cycles to be
carried on a "ride on" basis - from safety and security perspectives, as
well as the not inconsiderable distances that are driven within the terminal
complexes on both sides.

It would be nice to have a minibus/trailer service all the year round ...
but demand would be impossibly low in the winter months I'm sure.

When on the train it is possible to get out of the car but there are no
facilities, other than toilets, so for the 35 mins or so it's pretty
pointless getting out of the vehicle.

Eurostar has equally odd rules about cycle carriage which, in effect, mean
that you check in your bike and can retrieve it at the destination the
following day .... although it is possible to take it as luggage in a bike
bag, subject to size restrictions related to the x-ray kit on security.

Non of that helps much ... but that's how it is. The upside, if it is
one, is that the ferry services all seem to have pretty straightforward all
the year round ride on cycle carriage.

RG

"Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed to
eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I also know that once onboard passengers are not confined to their
vehicles, so I can't see why solo bikes would be a problem. Can ayone
help clarify? Am I wrong, or is eurotunnel being a pain?

Cheers,

Ben Barker

"Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed to
eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I also know that once onboard passengers are not confined to their
vehicles, so I can't see why solo bikes would be a problem. Can ayone
help clarify? Am I wrong, or is eurotunnel being a pain?

Cheers,

Ben Barker

Ben, if you're a CTC member, it would be worth checking with them. They
also have a dedicated public transport worker who would love to know about
the strange situation regarding motorcycles.

Quoted message said:

I'll do that - I am a member, and the CTC always seem very helpful.
I also emailed eurotunnel to clarify things with them.

Ben

burt said:

"Ben" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed to
eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I also know that once onboard passengers are not confined to their
vehicles, so I can't see why solo bikes would be a problem. Can ayone
help clarify? Am I wrong, or is eurotunnel being a pain?

Cheers,

Ben Barker

Ben, if you're a CTC member, it would be worth checking with them. They
also have a dedicated public transport worker who would love to know about
the strange situation regarding motorcycles.

Quoted message said:

Ben said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed
to eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I have a feeling that the limited minibus + trailer system was the result of
some heavy lobbying by the CTC when the tunnel was built. Otherwise, it
would have been no bicycles whatsoever.

I've found that its cheaper to get a ferry/tunnel crossing with car, put
bikes inside car, than it is to travel by bike from the UK*. Its odd, but
that's competition for you - lots of competition for the mass market car
user, and little for the cyclists.

Eurostar is worse; its impossible to tell from their website whether an
ordinary sized bicycle will be refused or not at the gate.

(* and that's before you start to try to book a sensibly priced train ticket
for two, with bikes, to get to a ferry port ).

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:02:24 -0000, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ben said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed
to eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I have a feeling that the limited minibus + trailer system was the result of
some heavy lobbying by the CTC when the tunnel was built. Otherwise, it
would have been no bicycles whatsoever.

I've found that its cheaper to get a ferry/tunnel crossing with car, put
bikes inside car, than it is to travel by bike from the UK*. Its odd, but
that's competition for you - lots of competition for the mass market car
user, and little for the cyclists.

Eurostar is worse; its impossible to tell from their website whether an
ordinary sized bicycle will be refused or not at the gate.

Eurostar is (or was) a very simple choice.

1. Send you bike on in advance.
2. Put your bike in a bike bag.

Quoted message said:

(* and that's before you start to try to book a sensibly priced train ticket
for two, with bikes, to get to a ferry port ).

- Nigel

Ben said:

Does anyone here have any experience of what, at first sight, seems to
be completely bizzare position on the part of Eurotunnel (as opposed to
eurostar who do the passenger trains) wrt bikes?

Their website seems to indicate that pedal cycles can only be taken on
the shuttle during the summer using their minibus service, and then
only on 2 services a day.

But during loading bikes are just as fast, indeed faster than other
traffic , and I know motorbikes are allowed solo. Their condition of
carriage also don't differentiate between cycles and other vehicles.

I also know that once onboard passengers are not confined to their
vehicles, so I can't see why solo bikes would be a problem. Can ayone
help clarify? Am I wrong, or is eurotunnel being a pain?

There's no indication of a restriction here:

http://tinyurl.com/bdygj from:
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcPassengers/ukcProductsServices/ukcTravellingWithEurotunnel/ukpBicycles

Tom Crispin wrote on 10/12/2006 00:36 +0100:

Quoted message said:

There's no indication of a restriction here:

http://tinyurl.com/bdygj from:
http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcPassengers/ukcProductsServices/ukcTravellingWithEurotunnel/ukpBicycles

I think its carefully hidden in the wording:

"In the UK the pick-up/drop-off point for cyclists is at the Eurotunnel
Administration Building car park. 08:00 and 15:30*

In France the pick-up/drop-off point for cyclists is at the car park of
the Centre d'Affaires, (next to the Marques Avenue designer outlet
centre). 12:30 and 18:00* "

i.e. there are two trains a day in each direction that you can catch.

The alternative is to go as a passenger. There are Eurostar trains you
can take from Ashford to Calais as a passenger and they take bike
reservations, albeit at £20 ea.
http://www.atob.org.uk/Bike_Rail.html#Eurostar

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:38:07 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

they take bike
reservations, albeit at £20 ea.

You can probably buy a bike bag, pedal spanner and allen key for
little more than that.

What a shame that cycles and cyclists can't be treated exactly the same as
motorcycles and motorcyclists.

How about slapping on some fake number plates and fake fairings to make your
bike look like some sort of weird motorscooter? :-)

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

What a shame that cycles and cyclists can't be treated exactly the same
as motorcycles and motorcyclists.

Let me assure you my experience on Eurostar as a biker are nothing to be
jealous of.

Bike in a bag, go as a foot passenger.

--
tallbloke

tallbloke said:

Quoted message said:

What a shame that cycles and cyclists can't be treated exactly the
same as motorcycles and motorcyclists.

Let me assure you my experience on Eurostar as a biker are nothing to
be jealous of.

My brother's used it as a biker. Apparently it was an OK experience.

Quoted message said:

Bike in a bag, go as a foot passenger.

Hassle and risk of damage to bike.

~PB

Tom Crispin said:

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:02:24 -0000, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Eurostar is worse; its impossible to tell from their website whether
an ordinary sized bicycle will be refused or not at the gate.

Eurostar is (or was) a very simple choice.

1. Send you bike on in advance.

Completely impractical unless you live next to a Eurostar station.

You have to be there the day before to dispatch your bike, or hang around
for up to a day at the Eurostar end station. I'd rather not spend a day in
Lille or Paris at each end of my trip, instead would prefer to be getting
onto a French train to reach my final destination.

Its a non-service.

Quoted message said:

2. Put your bike in a bike bag.

Rules say something like "regulation sized bike bag". There is also a
comment somewhere about "must fit through X-ray machine". I've no idea what
a "regulation sized bike bag" may be.
At 100 miles distance from a Eurostar terminal, if my bike (25in gents
tourer with mudguards, rack, etc) goes through an X-ray machine. Also,
even if I went to the terminal to find out in advance, I expect I couldn't
establish if it did fit.

If I book tickets, and turn up expecting to travel with bike, only to find
that its not "regulation sized", what happens ? Answer: my holiday is
stuffed, my tickets wasted.

Eurostar has declined to answer an email enquiry as to what sizes are, or
are not, permitted as hand luggage. Until they answer, its another
non-service.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Nigel Cliffe said:

Eurostar has declined to answer an email enquiry as to what sizes are, or
are not, permitted as hand luggage. Until they answer, its another
non-service.

120cmx90cm
http://www.voyages-sncf.com/guide/voyageurs/TrainVelo.htm

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:33:04 -0000, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:02:24 -0000, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Eurostar is worse; its impossible to tell from their website whether
an ordinary sized bicycle will be refused or not at the gate.

Eurostar is (or was) a very simple choice.

1. Send you bike on in advance.

Completely impractical unless you live next to a Eurostar station.

You have to be there the day before to dispatch your bike, or hang around
for up to a day at the Eurostar end station. I'd rather not spend a day in
Lille or Paris at each end of my trip, instead would prefer to be getting
onto a French train to reach my final destination.

Its a non-service.

Quoted message said:

2. Put your bike in a bike bag.

Rules say something like "regulation sized bike bag". There is also a
comment somewhere about "must fit through X-ray machine". I've no idea what
a "regulation sized bike bag" may be.
At 100 miles distance from a Eurostar terminal, if my bike (25in gents
tourer with mudguards, rack, etc) goes through an X-ray machine. Also,
even if I went to the terminal to find out in advance, I expect I couldn't
establish if it did fit.

If I book tickets, and turn up expecting to travel with bike, only to find
that its not "regulation sized", what happens ? Answer: my holiday is
stuffed, my tickets wasted.

Eurostar has declined to answer an email enquiry as to what sizes are, or
are not, permitted as hand luggage. Until they answer, its another
non-service.

I've taken bikes across the Channel twice. Once by ferry and once by
Eurostar. Both were trouble free.

For the ferry, I cycled to Portsmouth, cycled onto the ferry, then off
again at St Malo.

For Eurostar, I cycled to Waterloo, removed panniers, pedals, front
wheel and rotated the bars by 90 degrees, and stuffed the bike , front
wheels and panniers into a bag and borded the train. Time really
didn't matter as I wanted to be there 30 minutes early anyway. In
Paris I reassembled the bike while my friend collected her bike which
she'd sent on ahead.

I'd say that the ferry is simpler, but slower and will only get you
freom sea port to sea port, not across country.

I really can't understand why the Shuttle is so awkward about bikes.
It would be trivial to allow cyclists to board in the same way as
M/Cs. The onlt difference is that they may need to be sent on 30
seconds ahead of motor traffic.

Dan Gregory said:

Nigel Cliffe said:

Eurostar has declined to answer an email enquiry as to what sizes
are, or are not, permitted as hand luggage. Until they answer, its
another non-service.

120cmx90cm
http://www.voyages-sncf.com/guide/voyageurs/TrainVelo.htm

Thanks for digging out the reference.

It doesn't explicitly mention Eurostar (or my school French failed me),
though its likely to be similar.

To get my 25in tourer down to 120x90cm* requires removing wheels, rear
mudguards, rack, seatpost, and handlebars (just measured it, either the stem
or the handlebars have to come off to get under 120cm). All these loose
fittings, and their nuts and bolts, have to go into a bag, and ~30lbs of
bike bits to be carried along with the ordinary luggage.
Even my wife's tiny ~16in framed bike wouldn't fit without removing wheels,
mudguards and rack.

Its an awful lot of hassle just to carry a large bag containing bits to
build a bike onto a train !

Its a non-service. Looks good on paper, but cannot be used by customers.
Like a lot of cycling faciltiies.

I'll carry on driving to the ferry, and parking my car at a friendly hotel
on the French side.
Its a lot cheaper, including proper mileage costs, and massively less
hassle.

(* size would appear to be that of a moderate sized race bike without
mudguards or wheels. If tall, seat dropped/removed. Which is OK if you ride
a race replica without luggage or mudguards. But not really useful if you
use a normal UK touring bike. )

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Tom Crispin said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Put your bike in a bike bag.

Rules say something like "regulation sized bike bag". .........

If I book tickets, and turn up expecting to travel with bike, only
to find that its not "regulation sized", what happens ? Answer: my
holiday is stuffed, my tickets wasted.

Eurostar has declined to answer an email enquiry as to what sizes
are, or are not, permitted as hand luggage. Until they answer, its
another non-service.

I've taken bikes across the Channel twice. Once by ferry and once by
Eurostar. Both were trouble free.

For Eurostar, I cycled to Waterloo, removed panniers, pedals, front
wheel and rotated the bars by 90 degrees, and stuffed the bike , front
wheels and panniers into a bag and borded the train. Time really
didn't matter as I wanted to be there 30 minutes early anyway. In
Paris I reassembled the bike while my friend collected her bike which
she'd sent on ahead.

Thanks, nice to know it worked for you.
I can't see how a bike would be under 120cm by 90cm with the rear wheel
still in place (posting elsewhere suggesting that as the "regulation size"😉.
I'd be fine doing the dismantling you list.

But I'd only be willing to use the service if *Eurostar* will actually say
what is permitted and what not.
Its no use turning up at Waterloo and discovering that they won't carry your
bike.

I'd have no problem if they said "extra 30 mins check-in time so we can
inspect your bike for security". Or a modest fee to carry it fully assembled
on your train (not the silly check-ahead system).

Quoted message said:

I really can't understand why the Shuttle is so awkward about bikes.
It would be trivial to allow cyclists to board in the same way as
M/Cs. The onlt difference is that they may need to be sent on 30
seconds ahead of motor traffic.

Can't really help there. I guess it wasn't part of the original plan
(motorway car / lorry interchange), and now it would be too much hassle for
too few customers.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Tom Crispin wrote on 10/12/2006 18:21 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I really can't understand why the Shuttle is so awkward about bikes.
It would be trivial to allow cyclists to board in the same way as
M/Cs. The onlt difference is that they may need to be sent on 30
seconds ahead of motor traffic.

Which is a cue to ask if you have e-mailed your MEPs about voting for
the Third Rail Package which will mandate the carrying of bikes on all
European trains by 2012. The train operators are lobbying against it
for obvious reasons so a strong lobby back is needed. You can do it
easily from the CTC site
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4680

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:02:22 -0000, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks, nice to know it worked for you.
I can't see how a bike would be under 120cm by 90cm with the rear wheel
still in place (posting elsewhere suggesting that as the "regulation size"😉.
I'd be fine doing the dismantling you list.

120cm x 90cm implies a maximum diagonal of 150cm.

Measure the length of your bike from the front forks to the end of the
rear rack and from the rotated handlebars to the mudguard reflector.
if those lenghts are less than 150cm you should be able to manage.
They won't be concerned about little bits protuding, such as bar ends.

I think that the information about fitting into the x-ray machine is
wrong. I believe the regulation is there so that the bike in its bag
will fit onto the luggage rack.

TGV in France have exactly the same regulation.

Quoted message said:

But I'd only be willing to use the service if *Eurostar* will actually say
what is permitted and what not.
Its no use turning up at Waterloo and discovering that they won't carry your
bike.

I'd have no problem if they said "extra 30 mins check-in time so we can
inspect your bike for security". Or a modest fee to carry it fully assembled
on your train (not the silly check-ahead system).

Having used the service, I have more sympathy for cellists than
cyclists. The former have no option but to pay £20 and use the
registered luggage service. At least cyclists have a choice, of
sorts.