bikes in Paris link

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikefor the relevant section of a
fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not spend a fortune in Paris,
written for English-speaking folk either choosing to live or visit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
Italy instead....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not spend a fortune in
Paris,
written for English-speaking folk either choosing to live or visit.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
Italy instead....

France in general is actually a pretty reasonably-priced place to visit.
Even Paris isn't universally expensive; you just have to know about the
options. Like Monoprix. Seek out Monoprix (kind of a small department store
that includes groceries, very reasonably priced) upon arrival!!!

If you want expensive, go to London. Basically, what costs a dollar here
costs a pound there. And the current exchange rate is pretty close to
$2/pound. So figure on everything being roughly double what you're used to.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

France in general is actually a pretty reasonably-priced place to visit.
Even Paris isn't universally expensive; you just have to know about the
options. Like Monoprix. Seek out Monoprix (kind of a small department store
that includes groceries, very reasonably priced) upon arrival!!!

If you want expensive, go to London.

Having lived most of my life in Paris, I can only agree. London in
particular, and the UK in general, seems to have much higher prices -
and - paradoxically - lower wages than France.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikeforthe relevant section of a
fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not spend a fortune in Paris,
written for English-speaking folk either choosing to live or visit.

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
Italy instead....

I read that a while ago. The author has some good points but comes
across as a newly arrived American with little or no spoken or even
reading level French.

I'd not trust a lot of his observations. Still his cycling thoughts
might be useful at least as a starting point.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikeforthe relevant section of a
fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not spend a fortune in Paris,
written for English-speaking folk either choosing to live or visit.

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
Italy instead....

Why when places like Arles, and Orange beckon? Even Chartres seems
rather nice and Blois, well !

Mind you, there is a lot to be said for a restaurant in Florence or
even Prado.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

John Kane said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

On Apr 26, 9:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikefortherelevant section of a
fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not spend a fortune in Paris,
written for English-speaking folk either choosing to live or visit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
Italy instead....

I read that a while ago. The author has some good points but comes
across as a newly arrived American with little or no spoken or even
reading level French.

After being a USN Fighter pilot that has been on cruise in the 'Med' 4
times and after having visited both Italy and France many times, I
suggest visiting Italy..I have little to no spoken or even reading
level Italian either but that wasn't any issue or problem in Italy,
only in France.

Quoted message said:

I'd not trust a lot of his observations. Still his cycling thoughts
might be useful at least as a starting point.

'trust' whatever you want...If I ever DO visit Europe again, probably
in October of 2008, It won't be France.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

John Kane said:

On Apr 27, 8:26 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Apr 26, 9:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikefortherelevant
> section of a fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not
> spend a fortune in Paris, written for English-speaking folk either
> choosing to live or visit.

Quoted message said:

> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
Italy instead....

I read that a while ago. The author has some good points but comes
across as a newly arrived American with little or no spoken or even
reading level French.

After being a USN Fighter pilot that has been on cruise in the 'Med' 4
times and after having visited both Italy and France many times, I
suggest visiting Italy..I have little to no spoken or even reading
level Italian either but that wasn't any issue or problem in Italy,
only in France.

Quoted message said:

I'd not trust a lot of his observations. Still his cycling thoughts
might be useful at least as a starting point.

'trust' whatever you want...If I ever DO visit Europe again, probably
in October of 2008, It won't be France.

Why, Peter? Sounds like you had a very bad experience there (sorry if
you've posted about; don't recall it). Did it just come down to "legendary
rudeness"?!?

Anyway, I find it refreshing to hear you say it in these oh-so-PC times.
:-P

In article <[email hidden]>,

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

After being a USN Fighter pilot that has been on cruise in the 'Med' 4
times and after having visited both Italy and France many times, I
suggest visiting Italy..I have little to no spoken or even reading
level Italian either but that wasn't any issue or problem in Italy,
only in France.

Quoted message said:

I'd not trust a lot of his observations. Still his cycling thoughts
might be useful at least as a starting point.

'trust' whatever you want...If I ever DO visit Europe again, probably
in October of 2008, It won't be France.

Since retiring in 2001, my wife and I have spent quite a bit of time in
both France and Italy. Studying the languages in both places, and
cycling on my part.

IMO, France is a better place for cycling: the roads are better, there
is less traffic on the minor roads, and the scenery is equal or better
(this could be debated endlessly...). Food is a toss-up, but I tend to
favor la cucina italiana to cuisine française.

Ah, but language, there's the rub. French unfortunately is a kind of
zero-tolerance language. It's hard to speak it well, and trivially easy
to speak it badly. Italians are generally happy to put up with peoples'
attempts on their beautiful language, the French reputedly less so for
their very different but equally beautiful language.

I'm pretty fluent in Italian, less so in French, but I must admit that
once you get outside of Paris the French have almost always been very
helpful, and quite willing to help even if you're struggling with the
language. It helps quite a bit if you're a cyclist.

Bill Sornson said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

John Kane said:

On Apr 27, 8:26 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Apr 26, 9:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikefortherelevant
>> section of a fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not
>> spend a fortune in Paris, written for English-speaking folk either
>> choosing to live or visit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
> Italy instead....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I read that a while ago. The author has some good points but comes
across as a newly arrived American with little or no spoken or even
reading level French.

Quoted message said:

After being a USN Fighter pilot that has been on cruise in the 'Med' 4
times and after having visited both Italy and France many times, I
suggest visiting Italy..I have little to no spoken or even reading
level Italian either but that wasn't any issue or problem in Italy,
only in France.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd not trust a lot of his observations. Still his cycling thoughts
might be useful at least as a starting point.

Quoted message said:

'trust' whatever you want...If I ever DO visit Europe again, probably
in October of 2008, It won't be France.

Why, Peter? Sounds like you had a very bad experience there (sorry if
you've posted about; don't recall it). Did it just come down to "legendary
rudeness"?!?

I have never understood the "legendary rudeness" Paris is a bit
brusque but no more than say London but except for the staff in les
Galeries Lafayette everyone is pleasant and generally very helpful to
a stranger.

The rest of the country tends to be very polite and I found when
looking for directions people very helpful, going as far as to give me
directions and then say (roughly translated) No, that's not a good
way, too many hills on a bike . You probably should do it this
way ..."

Maybe it's an American thing? My niece's boss from Virginia apparently
had a hellish trip there, something like Chevy Chase on holidays about
the same time as I was enjoying myself immensely.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I find it refreshing to hear you say it in these oh-so-PC times.
:-P

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

After being a USN Fighter pilot that has been on cruise in the 'Med' 4
times and after having visited both Italy and France many times, I
suggest visiting Italy..I have little to no spoken or even reading
level Italian either but that wasn't any issue or problem in Italy,
only in France.

I visited France with minimal spoken/written French (2 years of high
school French 1972-74, and I carried a good phrase book) and found that
everyone responded very graciously to my attempts at speaking French,
starting with the ticket seller in the Gare du Lyon in Paris. My
spoken/written Italian wasn't much better when I visited Italy last May,
but again a modest attempt on my part to speak Italian reaped tremendous
rewards. I would visit either country in a heartbeat, and in fact my
next cycle tour will include both countries.

mark

Bill Sornson said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

John Kane said:

On Apr 27, 8:26 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Apr 26, 9:45 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bikefortherelevant
>> section of a fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not
>> spend a fortune in Paris, written for English-speaking folk either
>> choosing to live or visit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What's the best way to save money going to Paris? Go to someplace in
> Italy instead....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I read that a while ago. The author has some good points but comes
across as a newly arrived American with little or no spoken or even
reading level French.

Quoted message said:

After being a USN Fighter pilot that has been on cruise in the 'Med' 4
times and after having visited both Italy and France many times, I
suggest visiting Italy..I have little to no spoken or even reading
level Italian either but that wasn't any issue or problem in Italy,
only in France.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd not trust a lot of his observations. Still his cycling thoughts
might be useful at least as a starting point.

Quoted message said:

'trust' whatever you want...If I ever DO visit Europe again, probably
in October of 2008, It won't be France.

Why, Peter? Sounds like you had a very bad experience there (sorry if
you've posted about; don't recall it). Did it just come down to "legendary
rudeness"?!?

Anyway, I find it refreshing to hear you say it in these oh-so-PC times.
:-P

late 80s, ship pulled into Cannes in the summer..Rode with 2 other
guys around Cannes, Nice and onto to Monaco. While in Cannes, in
restaurants, dealing with many merchants, universally [censored] on, me
and many others. Ignored in restaurants, overcharged in cafe's and
bars, had a pair of gloves stolen off my bike when in Nice, while I
watched...really poor..Same cruise, in Italy and Sicily, treated with
respect and friendliness...Adios France, never go back.

Quoted message said:

Ah, but language, there's the rub. French unfortunately is a kind of
zero-tolerance language. It's hard to speak it well, and trivially easy
to speak it badly. Italians are generally happy to put up with peoples'
attempts on their beautiful language, the French reputedly less so for
their very different but equally beautiful language.

Especially coming from English, French can be a bit tough because, as you
point out, there are very strict rules to follow. One doesn't casually
pluralize things by putting an "s" at the end, for example. And in the US
you can go into a deli and, when greeted, reply "I'd like a ham sandwich"
and all would be fine... NOT what is done in France. You would start by
saying "Bonjour" (assuming it's early in the day), then say what you would
like, and absolutely positively you MUST end it with "si'l vous plais"
(please). To do otherwise is just wrong. In English, it's all about the tone
that conveys civility. The rules are nowhere near as important as the tone.

Quoted message said:

I'm pretty fluent in Italian, less so in French, but I must admit that
once you get outside of Paris the French have almost always been very
helpful, and quite willing to help even if you're struggling with the
language. It helps quite a bit if you're a cyclist.

It helps TREMENDOUSLY if you're a cyclist! You can go into any local
bar/tavern/pub in the sticks, ask for "eaue ordinaire" (plain water) and
they'll be happy to fill your bottles for you. One woman humorously asked if
I wanted "Vin Rue" (red wine).

Another time I'd headed down the wrong road for about 10km or so, and went
into a bar to ask directions. The woman at the bar (lots of women tending
bars in France, by the way) kinda freaked out at the idea I was so far off
course and thought I'd never make it to where I had to go before dark.
Almost seemed like she was going to drive me there, but I told her no
problem, not a big deal (and in fact got in way before dark).

And yet another pleasant bar experience climbing the Tourmalet. I took a
breather at a bar/cafe about 2/3rds up on the Luz Ardiden side, and brought
a bottle of water from their display to the counter. The guy took it from me
and replaced it with one from his indoor cooler, which was quite a bit
colder. He might have even given me a glass with three ice cubes, although
if he had, I couldn't admit it, since that's apparently a high crime in
France.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

http://home.comcast.net/~zilax/paris.html#bike for the relevant section of a
fairly-decent piece on how to get around and not spend a fortune inParis,
written for English-speaking folk either choosing to live or visit.

http://velib.paris.fr