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Bikes and PT

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UK and Europe
Published
27 August 2007
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30 August 2007
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Tony Raven
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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Public transport 'poorly linked'

    Public transport has too many weak links making it difficult to switch from
    one mode to another, a report by an environmental group has found.

    Travellers polled for a Transport 2000 survey said buses did not connect
    with train times and stations had insecure cycle parking and poorly-lit
    footpaths.

    The poll also showed only 29% thought bus timetables were clear and
    accurate.

    The Department for Transport said it was working constantly to improve the
    integration of the transport network.

    Better buses

    A spokesman for the department said plans included improving access to
    railway stations, better integration with bus services and improved parking
    facilities.

    He said £150m is to be invested into refurbishing and modernising 150 mid-
    sized stations, with a further £370m being spent on the Access for All
    station programme.

    The draft Local Transport Bill proposes greater powers for local
    authorities to improve the quality of local bus services, he added.

    Transport 2000 said the government had taken steps in the right direction
    but there was still some way to go.

    Tara Melton, from the group, said: "Rail passengers need real travel
    choices. All stations should have good bus links, decent footpaths and
    secure cycle parking and must be accessible to all."

    The survey found 60% of respondents said that they would not feel safe
    leaving their bike at a train station and 62% said there was not a safe
    cycle route to the station.

    Only 36% felt paths to their station were safe, well-lit and free of
    obstacles, Transport 2000 said.

    Ms Melton added: "What our survey shows is that this clearly is not the
    case for many rural and urban stations, leaving many people with no choice
    but to drive to the station."

    Dependent

    Meanwhile, in a separate survey almost three-quarters of people questioned
    said they thought there was too much reliance on the car in the UK.

    Transport services company Trueform Group found that despite this, more
    than half (56%) of adults in the survey drive their car every day,

    Drivers in Northern Ireland seemed most dependent with 64% driving daily,
    followed closely by the West Midlands and Yorkshire and Humberside. In
    contrast, 26% of Londoners polled use their cars every day.

    Trueform technical director Jonathan Morley said investment in rail, bus
    and other forms of public transport meant there was a viable alternative to
    car travel.

    "The challenge now is encouraging them to make the switch and leave their
    vehicles at home," he said.

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

  2. Tony Raven said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Public transport 'poorly linked'

    Public transport has too many weak links making it difficult to switch from
    one mode to another, a report by an environmental group has found.

    Travellers polled for a Transport 2000 survey said buses did not connect
    with train times and stations had insecure cycle parking and poorly-lit
    footpaths.

    The poll also showed only 29% thought bus timetables were clear and
    accurate.

    The Department for Transport said it was working constantly to improve the
    integration of the transport network.

    Better buses

    A spokesman for the department said plans included improving access to
    railway stations, better integration with bus services and improved parking
    facilities.

    He said £150m is to be invested into refurbishing and modernising 150 mid-
    sized stations, with a further £370m being spent on the Access for All
    station programme.

    The draft Local Transport Bill proposes greater powers for local
    authorities to improve the quality of local bus services, he added.

    Transport 2000 said the government had taken steps in the right direction
    but there was still some way to go.

    Tara Melton, from the group, said: "Rail passengers need real travel
    choices. All stations should have good bus links, decent footpaths and
    secure cycle parking and must be accessible to all."

    The survey found 60% of respondents said that they would not feel safe
    leaving their bike at a train station and 62% said there was not a safe
    cycle route to the station.

    Only 36% felt paths to their station were safe, well-lit and free of
    obstacles, Transport 2000 said.

    Ms Melton added: "What our survey shows is that this clearly is not the
    case for many rural and urban stations, leaving many people with no choice
    but to drive to the station."

    Dependent

    Meanwhile, in a separate survey almost three-quarters of people questioned
    said they thought there was too much reliance on the car in the UK.

    Transport services company Trueform Group found that despite this, more
    than half (56%) of adults in the survey drive their car every day,

    Drivers in Northern Ireland seemed most dependent with 64% driving daily,
    followed closely by the West Midlands and Yorkshire and Humberside. In
    contrast, 26% of Londoners polled use their cars every day.

    Trueform technical director Jonathan Morley said investment in rail, bus
    and other forms of public transport meant there was a viable alternative to
    car travel.

    "The challenge now is encouraging them to make the switch and leave their
    vehicles at home," he said.

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

    Passengers` frustration at `weakest link` train stations

    Press release under embargo until 00.01 on Monday, 27 August 2007

    Rail passengers cite buses that don't connect with train times,
    insecure cycle parking and poorly-lit footpaths as barriers to using
    their local train stations.

    These are the results found in the 'Weakest Link' [1] survey launched
    by Transport 2000 [2] to find the best and worst train stations to
    travel to in England and Wales.

    The government has made steps in the right direction, with station
    'Access for All' funding and a commitment in the Rail White Paper to
    introduce Station Travel Plans and a task force to improve cycle
    provisions at stations. Transport 2000 welcomes these decisions.

    However, Tara Melton of Transport 2000 says: "Rail passengers need
    real travel choices. All stations should have good bus links, decent
    footpaths and secure cycle parking and must be accessible to all. What
    our survey shows is that this clearly is not the case for many rural
    and urban stations, leaving many people with no choice but to drive to
    the station".

    National Survey results

    The results of the survey [3] throughout the UK and Wales found that:

    - Only 29% of respondents thought that bus timetables at their station
    were clear and accurate. Only 12% of respondents thought that the bus
    timetables generally connected with the train timetable.

    Example: Sandal and Agbrigg Station in West Yorkshire. One respondent
    explained that bus services have been cut by 50% in the last year and
    the car park is full to capacity resulting in people driving to
    Wakefield Station instead.

    - A staggering 60% of respondents said that they would not feel safe
    leaving their bike at the station.

    Example: Manor Park Station in London. One respondent reported that
    bicycles are regularly stolen.

    - Sixty-two percent of respondents said that there was not a safe
    cycle route to the station.

    Example: Regular passengers of both Hitchin Station in Hertfordshire
    and Kemble Station near Cirencester raised unsafe cycle routes as
    dangerous obstacles to using the station.

    - Only 36% of respondents felt that the paths to their station were
    safe, well-lit and free of obstacles.

    Example: Peckham Rye Station in London. All three entrances are poorly-
    lit and surrounded on each side by tall buildings, making many users
    feel vulnerable.

    - Sixty-one percent of respondents said that the town centre and
    nearby facilities were not well signposted from their station entrance/
    exit.

    Example: Respondents highlighted Bristol and Newport; both of these
    stations are poorly-signposted and physically and psychologically
    disconnected from the main town.

    Transport 2000 also sent a number of regional press releases about
    this survey. See regional press releases here.

    Notes to editors

    [1] The 'Weakest Link' survey respondents included a mixture of
    commuters and occasional users throughout England and Wales.
    Respondents were asked to comment on their personal experiences of
    their journey to local train stations, whether by foot, cycle, bus or
    wheelchair.

    [2] Transport 2000 is an independent campaigning and research body
    that represents the key transport interests of around 40 environmental
    groups, transport organisations and transport unions. We bring
    together people who seek to reduce the environmental and social
    effects of transport through encouraging less use of cars, lorries and
    planes and more use of rail, buses, trams, cycling and walking.

    We believe the following elements are important if stations are to
    become less car-dependent:

    - Clear signage from the town centre and roads showing where the
    station is (preferably with a map for pedestrians)

    - Clear signage outside the station, clearly indicating the presence
    of a railway station

    - Communication between local bus operators and rail companies with
    the aim of providing bus services that broadly meet the trains

    - Information about the bus timetable and train timetable in a clear
    and obvious location

    - Walking, buggy and wheelchair access to the station that is clear
    from clutter such as overgrown hedges, that is well-lit and feels safe
    at night, and with safe pedestrian crossing facilities

    - Cycling access to the station that is well-signposted and has a
    reduced speed limit of 30mph; ideally this should take the form of a
    dedicated cycle lane leading directly into the station

    - Cycle parking at the station that is secure, overlooked by staff and
    CCTV, and preferably covered

    - Taxi ranks that are clearly signed, or a list of taxi numbers in the
    station building with a working public phone

    [3] 184 stations were nominated across the country; this is
    approximately 7% of all stations.

  3. spindrift <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1188198871.789256.78280
    @d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

    Quoted message said:


    Rail passengers cite buses that don't connect with train times,
    insecure cycle parking and poorly-lit footpaths as barriers to using
    their local train stations.

    I wrote to a bus company about four years ago about their buses from a
    ferry terminal leaving and arriving at randoms times relative to the ferry
    arrivals and departures and suggested they might synchronise their
    timetable with the ferry timetable. They clearly took my suggestion on
    board because a few months later they proudly announced a new timetable
    synchronised with the ferry times. However a cursory glance at the
    timetable showed that, while indeed they were synchronised, they now left 5
    mins before the ferry got in and arrived 5 mins after it had departed!!!

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

  4. Tony Raven said:

    I wrote to a bus company about four years ago about their buses from a
    ferry terminal leaving and arriving at randoms times relative to the ferry
    arrivals and departures and suggested they might synchronise their
    timetable with the ferry timetable. They clearly took my suggestion on
    board because a few months later they proudly announced a new timetable
    synchronised with the ferry times. However a cursory glance at the
    timetable showed that, while indeed they were synchronised, they now left 5
    mins before the ferry got in and arrived 5 mins after it had departed!!!

    I don't know which says more about the comical integration of bus and
    trains in the UK... that buses don't stop at Dundee railway station (you
    have to walk a few hundred meters), or that Roos actually had to point
    out to me that was /incredibly/ dumb before I realised it was incredibly
    dumb or ought to be unusual ;-/

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  5. On 27/08/2007 07:56, Tony Raven said,

    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Public transport 'poorly linked'

    As in "bikes" and "public transport" are never linked in the same
    sentence :-(

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  6. On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:31:47 +0100, Paul Boyd <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On 27/08/2007 07:56, Tony Raven said,

    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Public transport 'poorly linked'

    As in "bikes" and "public transport" are never linked in the same
    sentence :-(

    True, but let's face it, the original statement had a few words too
    many. "Public transport poor" is all that was required, shirley?

    --
    Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

  7. Tony Raven said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Public transport 'poorly linked'

    Public transport has too many weak links making it difficult to switch from
    one mode to another, a report by an environmental group has found.

    Travellers polled for a Transport 2000 survey said buses did not connect
    with train times and stations had insecure cycle parking and poorly-lit
    footpaths.


    depends on the area london ish area seems fine as long as your going in
    or out, could take days if you want to go around though.

    but yes the train station local to my folks the buses aren't linked, in
    fact quite often are just slightly too short a time to walk it, so have
    to wait another hour...

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  8. Paul Boyd said:

    On 27/08/2007 07:56, Tony Raven said,

    Quoted message said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Public transport 'poorly linked'

    As in "bikes" and "public transport" are never linked in the same
    sentence :-(

    one thing i do notice is you do get bikes on trains around london
    compared to where i used to live.

    but then the train staion there serves a much bigger area, one that
    isn't nessarly bikeable as tranport, though plenty do for lesure.

    roger
    --
    www.rogermerriman.com

  9. Tony Raven said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

    Its also a rather interesting point that if you do take a bike on
    trains you'll find that if more than one other person has got there
    before you you're stuck waiting for the next train. PT and cycles just
    arent a good combination - you have to accept that you either ride or
    dont.

  10. "CoyoteBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tony Raven said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

    Its also a rather interesting point that if you do take a bike on
    trains you'll find that if more than one other person has got there
    before you you're stuck waiting for the next train. PT and cycles just
    arent a good combination - you have to accept that you either ride or
    dont.

    Liverpool was an example of how to do it right - the local trains actually
    carried bikes happily, including tandems. I think they've rearranged the
    seating such that tandems no longer work as well, but they're still ok for
    solos.

    cheers,
    clive

  11. CoyoteBoy said:

    Its also a rather interesting point that if you do take a bike on
    trains you'll find that if more than one other person has got there
    before you you're stuck waiting for the next train. PT and cycles just
    arent a good combination - you have to accept that you either ride or
    dont.

    Clearly not a man with a Brompton... I certainly wouldn't want to use a
    standard bike on PT regularly, but it's a non-issue with the Brom (there
    are some jobsworth companies that outlaw folders, but all you need to
    get around that is a simple cover).

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  12. "CoyoteBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    Its also a rather interesting point that if you do take a bike on
    trains you'll find that if more than one other person has got there
    before you you're stuck waiting for the next train. PT and cycles
    just
    arent a good combination - you have to accept that you either ride
    or
    dont.

    Hmm. You live on the wrong line. Our trains here, First Capital
    Connect (ex WAGN) into Moorgate/Kings Cross don't have a limit. More
    than a dozen per train does make things somewhat crowded, I have to
    admit, but it gets done every now and then. During rush hour though,
    bikes are only allowed in the counterflow direction.

    Jeremy Parker

  13. Clive George said:

    "CoyoteBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tony Raven said:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6965043.stm

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    --
    Tony

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

    Quoted message said:

    Its also a rather interesting point that if you do take a bike on
    trains you'll find that if more than one other person has got there
    before you you're stuck waiting for the next train. PT and cycles just
    arent a good combination - you have to accept that you either ride or
    dont.

    Liverpool was an example of how to do it right - the local trains actually
    carried bikes happily, including tandems. I think they've rearranged the
    seating such that tandems no longer work as well, but they're still ok for
    solos.

    cheers,
    clive

    Yeah, there is one space on each train for up to two bikes (wouldnt
    fit a tandem) - this is great but when a friend and I ride to work and
    decide not to ride home (pouring rain, thunder and lightning etc) we
    have to then pray no-one else gets on the train with a bike before us!
    You can fit more bikes by jamming them into corners and standing with
    them, but the guard moans and its a bit of a hazard in an emergency.

  14. Peter Clinch said:
    CoyoteBoy said:

    Its also a rather interesting point that if you do take a bike on
    trains you'll find that if more than one other person has got there
    before you you're stuck waiting for the next train. PT and cycles just
    arent a good combination - you have to accept that you either ride or
    dont.

    Clearly not a man with a Brompton... I certainly wouldn't want to use a
    standard bike on PT regularly, but it's a non-issue with the Brom (there
    are some jobsworth companies that outlaw folders, but all you need to
    get around that is a simple cover).

    I use the train as a bad-weather get-out for my normal commute of 18
    miles each way - while a brompton is a great idea for local commutes
    and if youre using the PT regularly as part of your commute then its
    fine, but if you use it as I do it is next to useless.

  15. "CoyoteBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Liverpool was an example of how to do it right - the local trains
    actually
    carried bikes happily, including tandems. I think they've rearranged the
    seating such that tandems no longer work as well, but they're still ok
    for
    solos.

    Yeah, there is one space on each train for up to two bikes (wouldnt
    fit a tandem)

    I wonder if things have changed again then. They used to have very open
    carriages with IIRC sideways facing seats - brilliant for bikes including
    tandems. Then they changed it to something more conventional - but I still
    managed to carry the tandem from Chester to Liverpool on one. What you're
    describing sounds more like the rest of the country :-(

    cheers,
    clive

  16. "Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, there is one space on each train for up to two bikes (wouldnt
    fit a tandem)

    I wonder if things have changed again then. They used to have very
    open carriages with IIRC sideways facing seats - brilliant for bikes
    including tandems. Then they changed it to something more conventional
    - but I still managed to carry the tandem from Chester to Liverpool on
    one. What you're describing sounds more like the rest of the country
    :-(

    I met the German Santana tandem dealer when he was touring North Wales
    which he had got to with his tandem by train from London. Asked how he had
    done it he said he simply took the wheels and pedals off, put the frame in
    the overhead rack and the wheels in the luggage space with the suitcases.
    One of the advantages I guess of a Ti frame.

    --
    Tony

    " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
    Bertrand Russell

  17. CoyoteBoy said:

    I use the train as a bad-weather get-out for my normal commute of 18
    miles each way - while a brompton is a great idea for local commutes
    and if youre using the PT regularly as part of your commute then its
    fine, but if you use it as I do it is next to useless.

    Then look harder at something like a Pocket Rocket, Chameleon or Birdy
    Speed...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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