Biker Killed by Mountain Lion

"Dennis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County,
California...The lion is still on the loose.

nbcsandiego.comdetail.htmlOpen ↗

Knowing the screwy politics of California they will now ban biking in Orange County to prevent any
injury to wild lions

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what
it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have
attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions?

How should this be handled?

[email hidden] (Dennis) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County,
California...The lion is still on the loose.

"on the loose" ?

As in, trying to live where it has for tens of thousands of years while idiots keep riding around in
its habitat?

Idiot quote of the day: "This mountain lion was hunting and I don't now why. I've never seen
behavior like that. It was just unreal."

Here's why: It was hungry and in its turf. What is so unreal about that?

Quoted message said:

One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County, California...The
lion is still on the loose.

In the story linked to, the mountain lion was probably killed. How is that "on the loose?"

Bill, riding bent in Florida (hence the screen name) To e-mail, remove undies

Perhaps it wasn't a mountain lion but Mikey V who went off the deep end!

Perry B

"Dennis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County,
California...The lion is still on the loose.

nbcsandiego.comdetail.htmlOpen ↗

It would be interesting to know a little more of the pre-event history.

About twenty years ago my two children were walking home after school. It was about a half mile walk
along the gravel driveway through the woods to our house. When they entered our property my son told
my daughter that she had forgotten to close the gate. She told him there was a cougar lying behind
the stump on the other side of the road. When he went back to close the gate he saw the cougar as
well. During the next week the cougar was spotted several times in peoples yards and driveways.
Nearly everyone that had "contact" with the cougar called the "Game and Wildlife" people.

The "Game and Wildlife" people wanted to know if the cougar had attacked any animals or people?
Until the animal had attacked something they were forbidden from acting. Fortunately for us no one
was hurt. I always felt that the cougar we had spotted was either an older one, run off from his
territory or a young one that was establishing his territory. In either case I was very nervous
about the sightings.

There may have been similar warning signs prior to this event.

William Higley, Sr. (In the Pacific Northwest) Vision R-50 RANS Rocket "Dennis"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County,
California...The lion is still on the loose.

nbcsandiego.comdetail.htmlOpen ↗

If you think about the effects that the severe drought and fires would have had on the normal prey
of the mountain lions, it's not too surprising that they are becoming more agressive. With bears, I
believe that we do kill the bear if it becomes necessary because the idea of a bear thinking
human=food would lead to more attacks. I can't see how it would be different with the lions. On the
other hand, I don't know what time dusk is in this park, but the lions supposedly hunt near dawn and
dusk. If we persist in cutting back territory for the lions and then running around near their
hunting times on a year that we'd expect them to be hungry, why shouldn't we expect attacks? Maybe
the answer is to be louder and make sure the cats are cleared out before they see humans and think
human=food.

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what
it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have
attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions?

How should this be handled?

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what
it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have
attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions?

How should this be handled?

Man in his present state of society cannot really coexist with the big killer carnivores. Even in a
place like Yellowstone it is an eternal dilemma. Complete separation of man and killer beast is the
only solution, even if it means that you have got to kill off all the big carnivores. That
historically is how the problem has always been handled of course until fairly recently.

With the danger of these animals going extinct due to man's occupation of every habitable square
inch of the earth's surface we (the more advanced Western civilizations) have decided to save them
from that fate. I am afraid however that zoos are the only solution. Sad but true! Or does any one
here on this newsgroup wish to sacrifice his life so that the beasties can live? As Lorenzo would
say, I thought not!

The only solution that occurs to me is to set aside really enormous kingdoms of nature (bio-
preserves) and keep man away from them except as infrequent visitors. This might be the best
possible use for huge areas of Canada and Siberia as well as central Asia and other wastelands
scattered about the earth. That is actually what we are attempting to do right now but on a much
smaller scale, but man pokes his nose everywhere, even in places like the back country of
Yellowstone and Glacier.

But Orange County in Southern California should not be set aside for a nature preserve for killer
carnivores. Actually, I am not much in favor of there even being bears and wolves in Yellowstone. To
see a pack of wolves ripping and tearing some poor beast apart while it is still living is a horror
not to be forgotten.

Since man has taken over the earth anyway we might as well design it more to suit our purposes. We
are going to exterminate the Wild and maybe it is good riddance. We came from the Wild ourselves in
terms of our evolution but now maybe it is time to cut the tether. We shall become like the Gods and
rule without reference to anything outside ourselves. Of course, we shall end up living in a world
where our only companions will be cockroaches and rats, but that is all we deserve anyway.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<j3sLb.3746$sv6.16225@attbi_s52>...

Quoted message said:

"Dennis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Knowing the screwy politics of California they will now ban biking in Orange County to prevent any
injury to wild lions

Lot of truth in that comment! Way over half the state is wacky, on one side or the other, always
disagreeing, and the seasoned natives must appear "out to lunch" mentally. What a country!

Chris Jordan Santa Cruz, CA.

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what
it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have
attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions?

How should this be handled?

Domesticated or wild, animals that kill a human for any reason are, and should be put down. Your
sympathies are misplaced, a mountain lion killing a humans is not "what it does". This is a deadly
abbreration that I'm sure has left family and friends of the victims devastated. I'm equally sure
that the encroachment of humans into to the previouslly wild domain of forest creatures has created
havoc with their ability to survive and otherwise thrive. It's a problem, but having group thearapy
for a killer mountain lion wont resolve the problem.

Bill

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One mountain biker is killed, another injured by a mountain lion in Orange County,
California...The lion is still on the loose.

"on the loose" ?

As in, trying to live where it has for tens of thousands of years while idiots keep riding around
in its habitat?

Idiot quote of the day: "This mountain lion was hunting and I don't now why. I've never seen
behavior like that. It was just unreal."

Here's why: It was hungry and in its turf. What is so unreal about that?

It's unusual because Mountain Lions, as a species, do not hunt humans. This lion is different.
Around humans, they have been timid, shy, and reclusive.

Pat in TX

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's what
it does. If it were a domesticated dog, we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have
attacked humans? What's the manner we deal with mountain lions?

How should this be handled?

Actually, I see no dilemma. In the wild, if WE were a threat to the lion, then the lion would have
no qualms about attacking and killing us. Lions kill for territory. The lion would, had it been
permitted to live, represent a continuing threat to our kind.

And lions get each and every single bit of their food from animals that were alive just before the
lion killed them (unless the lion is kill-stealing, which happens a lot) because, to lions, might
makes right.

Some would argue that the lion was only doing what it normally does; to which I'd respond, and
humans are doing what humans should be doing.

Some might argue that the lions were there first, to which you'd have to acknowledge that lions
fight for territory, often usurping control from another lion which was previously there. So the
concept of being killed for territory is not alien to the species involved.

And yes, bears that have attacked humans are killed (if they are tracked down).

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

. Do we kill bears that have attacked humans?

Yes

Quoted message said:

What's the manner we deal with mountain lions?

Get the dogs, run it down and shoot it.

Quoted message said:

How should this be handled?

Just like I said. They got the dogs, ran it down and shot it.

Pumas/cougars/panthers/mountain lions are not an endagered species.

When an animal starts attacking humans it has entered my very personal ecological niche and I kill
it. I don't fault the lion for it is doing what is natural(hunting prey) and I don't fault myself
for I am doing what is natural for me (self defense).

Jerry (top of the food chain) Rhodes

Perry Butler said:

Perhaps it wasn't a mountain lion but Mikey V who went off the deep end!

The consensus on the Usenet cycling groups is that event occurred quote some time ago. 😉

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

Quoted message said:

It would be interesting to know a little more of the pre-event history.

Some years ago in California, there was a bounty on mountain lions. The laws were changed, we then
had a fairly long period when Mtn Lions were not protected. During this entire time mtn lions were
hunted for 'sport'. Each to his own, I suppose, but is it sport to take money from a rich doctor in
San Francisco, then you and yer buddy take a few bottles of Jack Daniels and the dogs and your .22
rifle into the hills. You swig away half the night listening to the hounds. Occasionally you jump
into the thrashed hunting pickup and go a couple more miles on logging roads to where you can hear
the hounds again. Finally you hear the dogs tree the varmint. You hike up there, with your booze and
sleeping bag. Your buddy takes the truck down to the tavern at the forks and calls the doctor, who
takes a chartered Cessna down the next day. Buddy stays around waiting to take the doctor up the
hill. Meanwhile, you toss your empty, then climb into the bag, the dogs sitting around panting,
pacing and belling once in a while to keep the cat in the tree. Long about noon the doctor shows up,
takes the .22 and shoots the lion dead [1] The lion tumbles down, you take pictures while the
smiling satisfied doctor poses with his 'trophy', then you haul everybody down the hill, dropping
the carcass off at the taxidermist.

Many/most other hunters hunted for their own enjoyment, but almost every hunter used dogs to do the
actual hunting.

IIRC, in June, 1990, in California, the Initiative Proposition #17 [2] is passed and takes effect.
This is designed to eliminate the trophy 'sport' hunting of the mtn lion, but not the taking of
dangerous or nuisance lions. There was more to the law.. also it provided for purchasing land for
wildlife sanctuaries, so that connecting corredors could link existing wild land [4], and to acquire
new habitat for lions. Note that this also benefits other species as well. To my knowledge this
aspect of the bill (a direct expression of the people's will) has never been implemented.

The Dept of Fish and Game trotted out their experts to say how this would be a bad bill. They were
the ones that previously had the bounty on the lions until forced to lift it. They freely admit that
they see their mission as providing GAME animals for the hunters to shoot. Surprisingly, they are
funded from hunting licenses. They do not see their mission is to provide a balanced healthy
ecosystem/foodchain in the mtns. They see OUR wildlands as a deer farm. Now if you aren't a deer
hunter, but another type of nature lover, and would occasionally like to see a forest, complete with
all the members of the ecosystem alive and functioning, then the Dept of Fish and Game does not work
for you. It does, however, have control of all of your animals.

Hunters were commonly against this bill. They have said that the mtn lions kills too many deer and
should be shot. Historically, though, the time in history when we had the most deer [3] was the time
when we had the most mtn lions.

Many antagonists thought that it was stupid to allow a potential man-killer to live in our
recreational areas. The problem is that over 99% of the mtn lion's previous range is forbidden him
now. His numbers are a tiny tiny fraction of what they used to be. The lion is usually very shy.
They can't live well around men and dogs [5] and guns and cars and stuff. There has been an
explosive growth in the last thirty years of homes and communities being built in the canyons and
forests. People want to 'get back to nature'. Then they destroy all the nature around them by taking
their dogs and cats and .22's and such up there.

Since the passing of this bill the population of mtn lions has really grown. Sightings have
increased many many times over. I saw one not long ago myself jumping into the woods next to a mtn
road (an old logging RR grade here in the Sierras) that I like to ride on. Competition for territory
is part of the problem here. Old experienced established lions drive young lions out. A male lion
may allow a female's terrtory to overlap his, but never another male's. A male's territory typically
is much larger than a females. Young lions have a tough time getting established, and get pushed out
into civilized areas. Being young (and open to new ideas) they dont realize that human meat will get
them killed.

They aren't really competing with humans directly, for territory, it is the other lions.

Many others thought that while it was a danger, the greater danger would be to try to create a world
that was all managed and artificial, like a Japanese Garden (please, no flames, I respect the right
of people to enjoy their Japanese Gardens, OK?). Many of these supporters thought that we have gone
a long ways down that path... we have almost given up our right to do any kind of dangerous thing!
The government appears to feel that its mission is to protect us from EVERYTHING at all costs (to
us). Some of us feel like we wouldn't want to live in a world that had no more wilderness, had no
more un-managed wildlife (tame-life?). We thought, no, we don't want any little girls carried off to
the horrified screams of her frantic mother... but.. somehow, in a larger way, we need to live in a
real world. Losing that for our children and children's children would be a greater tragedy. We
aren't greater than the natural world. We haven't even really proven our viability as a species,
over time. We destroy our predators and change our environment to suit us (clothes, houses, etc),
then out-grow the sustaining ability of our territory.

I grew up just a whoop and a hollar from a wilderness area used to spend a lot of time in there. I
used to work for the USFS and fall burning snags in the wilderness, using a misery whip. No engines
allowed. I love nature the way God made it, not as man makes it. I probably notice things like
animals in the forest before a more urbanized guy might (no guarantee though). I love my daughter
too. I bought a .357 revolver and kept it within reach when I had my girl in the forest. I use my
eyes and brains. I teach my girl about forest safety. If I lost her I would probably repudiate my
current position on this, but I feel we should have mtn lions. I kinda feel people should be well-
warned, taught what they need to know, then allowed to enter mtn lion habitat after coming to a
realization it isn't a walk in the mall (though still probably safer).

TRIVIA:

Did you know that the American Black Bear, *STATISTICALLY* is more likely to stalk and kill you for
food than is a grizzly? Grizzlys generally kill in self-defence or to defend their territory or
young. I didn't say that MORE people are killed by black bears. It seems to me each year I hear
about two or three people being killed by black bears.

TRIVIA #2

Mtn lions kill several ways. Large males can jump on an animal hard enough to actually break a full
grown elks neck, just by the impact. The most common way they kill deer is to bite through the back
of the skull into the brain. One may get me someday, but I hope it is after I put up a good battle,
slugging, kicking, yelling and throwing. If he gets you down cover the back of your head, maybe with
your fingers interlaced behind your head. Don't play dead with a black bear or mtn lion. But don't
run from them either, if you can avoid it, that will surely trigger a chase. Now if you have a
reachable goal it might be different. Having grown up around animals I think I'd just walk. I have
done that while being charged by a angry black bear mother and a few dozen farm animals. I used to
torment the bulls on the ranch until they wanted to kill me (hey, I was a kid). Most of them won't
just up and kill you, they have to work up to it if they haven't been tormented. Walking away has
saved my bacon in some of those cases too.

[1] These cats, statistically, were more often killed by small caliber rifles or camp pistols than
any other weapon. Treed, they are easy to kill.

[2] California law (within my living memory) came to provide the people with an initiative process
of creating law. Previous to this only the legislature could create law. Some of us came to
realize that the legislature sometimes was more motivated by it's perceived self-interest than
by 'our' self interest. Most opposed the creation of the Initiative process.

[3] Some experts claim that there are now more deer in the United States than at any time since
before the revolutionary war. This is mostly because so much mid-America farm land has gone
back to the wild.

[4] A big problem with comparatively small populations such as the mtn lion is maintaining a good
genetic variety for breeding. Connecting corredors help keep gene pools from becoming stagnent
and isolated.

[5] Yes, I know that they can live unseen in a community for some time, living off of cats and yap
dogs on up to full grown German Shepherds. Hereabouts, in 1990, IIRC, we had a mtn lion chase a
German Shepherd through his doggy door and kill him in a kitchen. In the north edge of town.
Don't bother doing a search on this, it didn't get to the media. I was involved with mtn lions
at that time and got the report. Fish and Game friend of my bud called him and asked him if he
had had any trouble with the stock or dogs or anything. "No, why?". "We have a radio collar on
a lion who has been hiding on your place in the woods above your house for a couple of days
now". Folks in that area lose a lot of dogs. Which doesn't bother me a whit even though I am a
"dog, pickup and Levis" guy (but I don't cuss or spit er nuthin). I feel that it is senseless
destruction of our wild areas to turn these animals lose there. People move up to the mtns,
then rare back and say, " You'all are flat landers! Ahm a mtn-man now!" but then they destroy
the nature of the wild they wanted when they moved up there.

DH said:

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's
what it does.

Pretty much, yeah. I also don't have much of a soft spot in my heart for wolves. Took us 150 years
to get rid of them, and then they were "successfully" reintroduced thanks to Robert Redford.

But I thought the woman who defended her friend by hanging onto her friend's leg as the lion
attempted to drag her away was amazing. The adrenaline probably made her a bit stupid, but it also
indicates a rather primal solidarity of humans vs animals. We have faces and identities, and
therefore elicit ferocious loyalty and comradeship... apparently beyond all reason.

But had any one of these people had a gun there might have been a lot less carnage. Of course
someone might have just sued on behalf of the cat.

demosophia.comdemosophia.comOpen ↗

(Edward Dolan) said:

This might be the best possible use for huge areas of Canada and Siberia as well as central Asia
and other wastelands scattered about the earth.

Hell, it sounds like a great use for California.

"Bigfrog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know what the solution is. Do you hunt down the animal for killing even though that's
what it does. If it were a domesticated

dog,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we would put it to sleep. Do we kill bears that have attacked humans? What's the manner we deal
with mountain lions?

How should this be handled?

Domesticated or wild, animals that kill a human for any reason are, and should be put down. Your
sympathies are misplaced, a mountain lion killing a humans is not "what it does". This is a deadly
abbreration that I'm sure has left family and friends of the victims devastated. I'm equally sure
that the encroachment of humans into to the previouslly wild domain of forest creatures has
created havoc with their ability to survive and otherwise thrive. It's a problem, but having group
thearapy for a killer mountain lion wont resolve the problem.

Bill

This is a problem I've seen many times. I thought I wrote very clearly, without emotion, without
judgment and you read things into what I wrote that are only in your head. ___Reread what I wrote
and then reread your reply.___ These animals kill other large animals - we also happen to be a large
animal. I thought I wrote without emotion. My 'sympathies' are nonexistent. I do not know a solution
when a killer animal and human occupy the same place.

Quoted message said:

Pumas/cougars/panthers/mountain lions are not an endagered species.<

A quick google search and CTRL + C and CTRL + V ....

dfg.ca.govf g4800.htmlOpen ↗

CALIFORNIA CODES FISH AND GAME CODE SECTION 4800-4809

4800. (a) The mountain lion (genus Felis) is a specially protected mammal under the laws of
this state.
(b) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any
part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter or in Chapter 2
(commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or
possession of any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, when the owner can
demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or product thereof, was in the person's
possession on June 6, 1990.
(c) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail
for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by
both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section
if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting
in self-defense or in defense of others.
(d) Section 219 does not apply to this chapter. Neither the commission nor the department shall
adopt any regulation that conflicts with or supersedes any of the provisions of this chapter.

4800. (b) The commission shall regulate the mountain lion (genus Felis) pursuant to Chapter 2
(commencing with Section 200) of Division 1, and the department shall carry out the
regulations of the commission and manage those mammals in the same manner as it carries
out other regulations of the commission and manages other mammals that are not rare,
endangered, or threatened species under the laws of this state.
(b) Pursuant to subdivision (a), the department shall prepare, submit to the commission for
approval, and implement a mountain lion management plan that promotes health and safety
protection and protection for livestock, domestic animals, other property, and other wildlife
species and that implements Section 1801. The plan shall identify zones based on the
department's estimates of mountain lion densities developed from the best information
available to the department. The department shall designate the zones that are priority zones
where the removal of individual mountain lions to protect public safety, livestock, domestic
animals, other property, and other wildlife species has not alleviated threats. In
designating priority zones, the department may consider, based on the best information
available to the department, where the mountain lion population is depleting other wildlife
species or where the mountain lion population may cause any of the following: (1) the
extinction of threatened or endangered species; (2) mountain lion depredation of livestock
and domestic animals; or (3) a threat to public health and safety. The taking of a mountain
lion that is attacking an individual member of a wildlife species other than threatened or
endangered species shall not be authorized based on that act alone. Except as otherwise
provided in this chapter, the department shall not manage, regulate, or take mountain lions
in a priority zone, as provided in this section or Section 4801, unless there is a plan for
that zone and the department makes a finding that managing, regulating, or taking mountain
lions is consistent with the plan for that zone and maintains a viable mountain lion
population in that zone.
(c) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any
part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter, in Chapter 2
(commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3, or as prescribed in regulations of the
commission. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or possession of any mountain lion or any
part or product thereof, when the owner can demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or
product thereof, was in the person's possession on June 6, 1990.
(d) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail
for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by
both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section
if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting
in self-defense or in defense of others.
(e) In the case of conflict between this chapter and the California Endangered Species Act,
Chapter 1.5 (commencing with Section 2050) of Division 3, the California Endangered Species
Act shall prevail.

4801. The department may remove or take any mountain lion, or authorize an appropriate local agency
with public safety responsibility to remove or take any mountain lion, that is perceived to be an
imminent threat to public health or safety.

4801. The department may remove or take, or authorize its designee, including, but not limited to,
an appropriate governmental agency with public safety responsibility, an appropriate governmental
agency with wildlife management responsibility, or an owner of land, to remove or take, one or more
mountain lions that are perceived to be an imminent threat to public health or safety or livestock
anywhere in the state except within the state park system. Within the state park system, the
department may remove or take, or authorize an appropriate governmental agency with public safety
responsibility or an appropriate governmental agency with wildlife management responsibility to
remove or take, one or more mountain lions that are perceived to be an imminent threat to public
health or safety only with the concurrence of the Department of Parks and Recreation.

4801.5. Prior to submittal to, and approval by, the commission of the plan required pursuant to
subdivision (b) of Section 4800, the department may remove or take any mountain lion, or
authorize an appropriate local agency with public safety responsibility to remove or take
any mountain lion, that is perceived to be an imminent threat to public health or safety.

4802. Any person, or the employee or agent of a person, whose livestock or other property is being
or has been injured, damaged, or destroyed by a mountain lion may report that fact to the department
and request a permit to take the mountain lion.

4803. Upon receipt of a report pursuant to Section 4802, the department, or any animal damage
control officer specifically authorized by the department to carry out this responsibility, shall
immediately take the action necessary to confirm that there has been depredation by a mountain lion
as reported. The confirmation process shall be completed as quickly as possible, but in no event
more than 48 hours after receiving the report. If satisfied that there has been depredation by a
mountain lion as reported, the department shall promptly issue a permit to take the depredating
mountain lion.

4804. In order to ensure that only the depredating mountain lion will be taken, the department shall
issue the permit pursuant to Section 4803 with the following conditions attached:
(a) The permit shall expire 10 days after issuance.
(b) The permit shall authorize the holder to begin pursuit not more than one mile from the
depredation site.
(c) The permit shall limit the pursuit of the depredating mountain lion to within a 10-mile
radius from the location of the reported damage or destruction.

4805. Whenever immediate authorization will materially assist in the pursuit of the particular
mountain lion believed to be responsible for the depredation reported pursuant to Section 4802, the
department or the animal damage control officer may orally authorize the pursuit and taking of the
depredating mountain lion, and the department shall issue a written permit for the period previously
authorized as soon as practicable after the oral authorization.

4806. Any person issued a permit pursuant to Section 4803 or 4805 shall report, by telephone within
24 hours, the capturing, injuring, or killing of any mountain lion to an office of the department
or, if telephoning is not practicable, in writing within five days after the capturing, injuring, or
killing of the mountain lion. At the time of making the report of the capturing, injuring, or
killing, the holder of the permit shall make arrangements to turn over the mountain lion or the
entire carcass of the mountain lion which has been recovered to a representative of the department
and shall do so in a timely manner.

4806. Any person who has captured, injured, or killed a mountain lion within a priority zone
identified in a mountain lion management plan under Section 4800 or who has been issued a permit
pursuant to Section 4803 or 4805 shall report, by telephone within 24 hours, the capturing,
injuring, or killing of any mountain lion to an office of the department or, if telephoning is not
practicable, in writing within five days after the capturing, injuring, or killing of the mountain
lion. At the time of making the report of the capturing, injuring, or killing, the person authorized
to take the mountain lion under a mountain lion management plan approved pursuant to Section 4800
shall make the remains of the mountain lion available for inspection to department personnel upon
their request pursuant to regulations adopted by the commission and the holder of the permit under
Section 4803 or 4805 shall make arrangements to turn over the mountain lion or the entire carcass of
the mountain lion which has been recovered to a representative of the department and shall do so in
a timely manner.

4800. (c) Any mountain lion that is encountered while in the act of pursuing, inflicting injury to,
or killing livestock, or domestic animals, may be taken immediately by the owner of the
property or the owner's employee or agent. The taking shall be reported within 72 hours
to the department. The department shall investigate the depredation, and, if the mountain
lion was captured, injured, or killed, the mountain lion or the entire carcass of the
mountain lion which has been recovered shall be turned over to the department. Upon
satisfactorily completing the investigation and receiving the mountain lion or the
carcass, if recovered, the department shall issue a permit confirming that the
requirements of this section have been met with respect to the particular mountain lion
taken under these circumstances.
(b) The department shall undertake a complete necropsy on any returned mountain lion carcass and
report the findings to the commission. The commission shall compile the reported findings and
prepare an annual written report that shall be submitted to the Legislature not later than
the January 15 next following the year in which the mountain lion was taken.

4808. As used in this chapter, "agent" means the agent or employee of the owner of the damaged or
destroyed property, any county or city predator control officer, any employee of the Animal Damage
Control Section of the United States Department of Agriculture, any departmental personnel, or any
authorized or permitted houndsman registered with the department as possessing the requisite
experience and having no prior conviction of any provision of this code or regulation adopted
pursuant to this code. A plea of nolo contendere is a conviction for purposes of this section.

4809. Mountain lions authorized to be taken pursuant to this chapter shall be taken by the most
effective means available to take the mountain lion causing the damage or destruction, except that
no mountain lion shall be taken by means of poison, leg-hold or metal-jawed traps, and snares.