Bike setup

tortoise said:

Can someone please recommend somewhere in Melbourne (city or Bayside)
where I can take my road bike to get it properly setup for me. I have
been fiddling around with it and adjusting it myself following all the
usual formulas available on the net, but think I need someone
knowledgeable to watch me on a trainer, to get it right. The problem I
am finding is that as soon as I spend more than an hour in the saddle
my groin goes numb and my lower back hurts.
Thanks

I had a good experience at ProMotion in Ormond (I think it was Leon).

DaveB

tortoise said:

Can someone please recommend somewhere in Melbourne (city or Bayside) where I can take my road bike to get it properly setup for me. I have been fiddling around with it and adjusting it myself following all the usual formulas available on the net, but think I need someone knowledgeable to watch me on a trainer, to get it right. The problem I am finding is that as soon as I spend more than an hour in the saddle my groin goes numb and my lower back hurts.
Thanks

could throw lots of half-baked) suggestions for yet more fiddles but try Leigh at Cecil Walker (dont bother with the rest of the staff, im afraid... ).
IMHO stay faraway from Kennedy. Have more people volunteer compalints about his fits than all others combined (but heck, he could be a lovely chap for all i know...).
Promotion have a good rep too.

Must be a road bike. Sorry I can't help.

I'm not into road bikes (too much), but I find it intresting that there is alot involved with bike set-up on road bikes. From entry level to elites, getting fitted to a road bike is really important.

I don't think I've seen anyone on a MTB ask for set-up assitance.
Sure it's a different kettle of fish, but I thought that proper set-up comes from hours in the saddle & adjusting as you go. Adjust, try, adjust try etc. Lots of riders out there have really wierd set-ups that just look wrong but they're grinning & trucking along OK without a care in the world.

I think alot of personal preference goes into bike set up.
...does my [censored] look big on this?

"Marx SS" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I'm not into road bikes (too much), but I find it intresting that there
is alot involved with bike set-up on road bikes. From entry level to
elites, getting fitted to a road bike is really important.

I don't think I've seen anyone on a MTB ask for set-up assitance.

Flame-Bait Alert!

That's probably because a lot of mtb'ers don't spend
as much time in the saddle as roadies. I mean, 1hr
off-road is usually quite a lot harder than 1hr on-road
at the same input level (it is for me anyway) so you 'tend'
to ride shorter distances.
MTB'ers are moving around a lot more than roadies
so roadie fit is more important due to the fixed position.
There are probably(?) more recreational mtb'ers than
roadies and for them bike fit wouldn't even cross their
minds.
Hang out on an xc race forum though and you'll probably
see just as many posts on bike fit as a road race forum.
It is still very important.

hippy

you know how it is with some forum posters like myself, we're just experts with just a lack of knowledge is all...... no flame-bait intended just personal observations....

"Marx SS" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

you know how it is with some forum posters like myself, we're just
experts with just a lack of knowledge is all...... no flame-bait
intended just personal observations....

No, MY post was the flame-bait! :-)
I was just waiting for an mtb'er to flare up
about riding less kays or something..

hippy

Marx SS said:

I think alot of personal preference goes into bike set up.

I agree 100%. There are all manner of tables and formulas to try to shoehorn people, but if you're not in the middle of the bell curve (or else an elite athlete) then you're out of luck.

My method has always been to suck and see. First get your saddle height right, by simply raising it until your hips start rocking, then work on getting the reach and saddle fore-aft position right, as well as the handlebar height.

What works for me (saddle a fair way forward, with lots of drop to the bar-tops) isn't going to work for many other people, who prefer to have the bars higher and the saddle further back.

Horses for courses. If you're experiencing lower back pain, then it's likely you've got too much drop to the bars, or the bars are too far away, and your back doesn't like bending that far. Take some measurements of what you've got now, so you can go back to it easily, and then experiment. Take what tables and charts give you as a point to start with, not the goal.

Regards,

Suzy

suzyj wrote -

Quoted message said:

My method has always been to suck and see. First get your saddle
height right, by simply raising it until your hips start rocking, then
work on getting the reach and saddle fore-aft position right, as well
as the handlebar height.

An adjustable stem when you are starting out is not a bad idea - adjustable
for height and reach.

What is comfortable for you will change as your flexibility changes
(relevantly, the ability to get low over the bars) - so if you give yoga /
Pilates / other stretching a serious go then what is comfortable for you
will change significantly.

So until you are really sure your as flexible as you can be and unlikely to
change, an adjustable stem and a saddle with rails that permit of a fair
range of movement are an idea.

One theory of road bike fitting that seems to be pretty much discredited is
the Knee Over Peddle Spindle ("kops"😉
story - see -

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

If your comfortable as you can be on the bike, if it gives you no pain
anywhere esp on long rides, and if you are getting as much power as you are
capable of to the rear wheel, then you've got it pretty right.

As Suzy says, various theories are preferred by various gurus as to how to
win that trifecta - someone who has set up a very large number of road
riders over a long period will probably by observation get it pretty close
for you.

Only one caution - when your happy with a position - measure it and write it
down (top of seat to maximum pedal extension, front axle to top of bars,
nose of saddle to front of bars). Also when you have got your cleats in a
position you like, use a marker pen to record the position for each cleat on
each show sole for the time when you have to replace the cleats.

best, Andrew

flyingdutch said:

tortoise said:

Can someone please recommend somewhere in Melbourne (city or Bayside)
where I can take my road bike to get it properly setup for me. I have
been fiddling around with it and adjusting it myself following all the
usual formulas available on the net, but think I need someone
knowledgeable to watch me on a trainer, to get it right. The problem I
am finding is that as soon as I spend more than an hour in the saddle
my groin goes numb and my lower back hurts.
Thanks

Sounds like you're reaching too far to the bars.

Find a shop who will put you on a trainer and fit you to
your own bike.

Quoted message said:

could throw lots of half-baked) suggestions for yet more fiddles but
try Leigh at Cecil Walker (dont bother with the rest of the staff, im
afraid... ).

Andy's very helpful with road bike fitting too.

<snip>

--
Nick

tortoise said:

Can someone please recommend somewhere in Melbourne (city or Bayside) where I can take my road bike to get it properly setup for me. I have been fiddling around with it and adjusting it myself following all the usual formulas available on the net, but think I need someone knowledgeable to watch me on a trainer, to get it right. The problem I am finding is that as soon as I spend more than an hour in the saddle my groin goes numb and my lower back hurts.
Thanks

Been getting a bit of knee pain, and was actually recommended by a (very cycle knowledgable) sports doctor to check out Kennedy Cycle fit in Black Rock (a couple of doors along from Le knicks).

Fitting up people to bikes seems to be their thing. I made some enquiries when i was down there a couple of weeks ago.

They get you on your own bike on a trainer, wearing all the gear you normally wear on the bike, shoes etc. Then they apparently measure absolutely everthing (does sir dress to the left?) down to whether your legs are the same length and how bad your fallen arches, and then tweak your bike (and cleats) accordingly. the whole process takes about an hour and half.

I was pretty enthusiastic... until the young lady told me it cost $250 bucks. As useful as it was, i was think of all the STUFF you could get for that.

Anyway, if money's no object, i reckon they'd be good.

SuzyJ wrote

. . . snip

Quoted message said:

Take what tables and charts give you as a point
to start with, not the goal.

I agree with Suzy. I have used the formulas as a starting point, but have
found that because of my body's own little idiosyncrasies I have had to make
adjustments beyond the formula values. For example, my lower back cannot
cope with being in the ideal flat back position, and I also do alot of long
distance riding, so I go for a higher handlebar position with a slightly
shorter stem. I also have problems with cleat positioning because of
slightly bandy legs, and one leg being bent further than the other, so my
cleat positioning is a long way off the standard ideal. And don't get me
started on old muscle injuries which just don't feel comfortable in any
position and will only respond to some medical intervention (ahh trigger
point injections . . . .)
I tend to make adjustments when I am on the road. By riding for an hour or
so, until discomfort from incorrect positioning makes itself evident I find
it easier to make an appropriate adjustment because I then get immediate
feedback as to whether the adjustment has made it better or worse when I get
back on the bike. It will still feel a bit uncomfortable because I have
taken it to the point of discomfort, but if it feels a bit better I leave it
in that position for the next couple of rides to see if the discomfort
returns. I just keep adjusting until I finally get it right. Eventually
you get it right and you don't think about it again . . . . until you buy a
new bike and / or change your cleat system, both of which I have recently
done. I was able to clone some of the measurements from the old bike, but
others have seen me going through this suck it and see process again. I am
nearly there.
All the best

Bjay

Quoted message said:

I was pretty enthusiastic... until the young lady told me it cost $250
bucks. As useful as it was, i was think of all the STUFF you could get
for that.

Anyway, if money's no object, i reckon they'd be good.

--
sim72

the groin and back can't be too sore then!

Peter

flyingdutch said:

could throw lots of half-baked) suggestions for yet more fiddles but try Leigh at Cecil Walker (dont bother with the rest of the staff, im afraid... ).
IMHO stay faraway from Kennedy. Have more people volunteer compalints about his fits than all others combined (but heck, he could be a lovely chap for all i know...).
Promotion have a good rep too.

John Kennedy fixed all my cycling problems with a new fitting (alomg with 2 years of yoga). Apart from having bad 'I disease', (I this, I that...), his ideas were very helpful for me. others have obviously had different experience. Incidentally my bike was originally set up at Pro-Motion.

In article <[email hidden]>,
ProfTournesol <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

John Kennedy fixed all my cycling problems with a new fitting

Did you tweak it at all, or are you using exactly what he said? Everyone
I've spoken too who found it useful adds the rider that they had to
change a few things.

Quoted message said:

Apart from having bad 'I disease'

Nice way of putting it. I made the mistake of just doing a fitting, and
telling him I was going to buy a new bike. I've never really paid for a
sales pitch before. Still, it was almost worth the money in
entertainment value.

Quoted message said:

others have obviously had different experience.

Yep. It's a difficult area, and I wouldn't expect anyone to get it right
every time. It seems to me the whole idea of "correct fit" is wrong, at
least for most people -- it's more a case of best fit, and what
compromises you want to make.

But when someone promises the sun, moon and stars, they should expect to
cop plenty of flack when they fail to deliver.

--
Shane Stanley

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

tortoise said:

snip...I have been fiddling around with it and adjusting it myself

....snip....my groin goes numb and my lower back hurts.

Quoted message said:

I had a good experience at ProMotion in Ormond (I think it was Leon).

DaveB

Guys,

This is supposed to be a bike forum

Kevin ;-)

Shane Stanley said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
ProfTournesol <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

John Kennedy fixed all my cycling problems with a new fitting

Did you tweak it at all, or are you using exactly what he said? Everyone
I've spoken too who found it useful adds the rider that they had to
change a few things.

Quoted message said:

Apart from having bad 'I disease'

Nice way of putting it. I made the mistake of just doing a fitting, and
telling him I was going to buy a new bike. I've never really paid for a
sales pitch before. Still, it was almost worth the money in
entertainment value.

Quoted message said:

others have obviously had different experience.

Yep. It's a difficult area, and I wouldn't expect anyone to get it right
every time. It seems to me the whole idea of "correct fit" is wrong, at
least for most people -- it's more a case of best fit, and what
compromises you want to make.

But when someone promises the sun, moon and stars, they should expect to
cop plenty of flack when they fail to deliver.

--
Shane Stanley

Completely untweeked 'John Kennedy original ' settings! To give him credit, if it doesn't work, he did say to come back. I wonder if some of the unhappy people don't go back? I think that it took the combination of a correct setup AND yoga AND physio to fix the problem, but without the fitting, I'd still be paying for ongoing physio to correct the problem.

"tortoise" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can someone please recommend somewhere in Melbourne (city or Bayside)
where I can take my road bike to get it properly setup for me. I have
been fiddling around with it and adjusting it myself following all the
usual formulas available on the net, but think I need someone
knowledgeable to watch me on a trainer, to get it right. The problem I
am finding is that as soon as I spend more than an hour in the saddle
my groin goes numb and my lower back hurts.
Thanks

I went to Fitzroy Cycles in Carnegie. Bill (the older gent who runs the
shop), and Luke (one of their mechanics) did a fantastic job getting my
Giant TCR2 more comfortable than the pro-fit I had done when I bought the
bike...

I had about 30 minutes on the trainer, with a few changes made, and they
charged me not a cent...

Cheers,

Andrew

Andrew Morris said:

I went to Fitzroy Cycles in Carnegie. Bill (the older gent who runs the
shop), and Luke (one of their mechanics) did a fantastic job getting my
Giant TCR2 more comfortable than the pro-fit I had done when I bought the
bike...

I had about 30 minutes on the trainer, with a few changes made, and they
charged me not a cent...

Cheers,

Andrew

cool. one for the LBS!!!

Their store in Swanston St was a wierd affair. they tried but the mix was strange. had a bit of everything and nothing quite right. The location and the store itself was... I dunno. just not right! The actual Fitzroy store is both great and bad too. LBS's are indeed a strange experience. Cue mfhor and the zen of LBS'in