Bike seat question

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

In my experience, saddle/shorts complaints are often a symptom of
riding position difficulties.

Quoted message said:

In my experience as well. Poor saddle adjustment as well as other
position problems account for a lot of discomfort wrongly blamed on
the saddle.

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
convinced that position comes first in this problem.

Jobst Brandt

Michael Press said:

Bicycling is not supposed to be comfortable.
Ride until you are worn out, then rest.

So why the padded shorts then? Why all the different-shaped and widths
of saddles? Or does that comfort not count?
~

Quoted message said:

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
convinced that position comes first in this problem.

Jobst Brandt

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
-------
I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
good happened.
~

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
convinced that position comes first in this problem.

Jobst Brandt

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
-------
I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
good happened.
~

If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker skin
on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks barefoot
all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than a person who
walks in shoes the same amount.

Can we assume that you are talking about perineum pressure? If so, I had
that problem recently on my indoor training (stationary) bike. I was doing
fine until I thought it would be a good idea to put the front wheel up on
one of those plastic risers. That changed the position of the saddle
relative to my torso position, of course, which then placed enormous
pressure on that sensitive "nerve." My pecker went numb in just 15 minutes
of pedaling (I stupidly continued for the full hour) and normal sensation
took alarmingly long to return. I don't mind reporting that this experience
worried me! Truthfully, I didn't realize at first that the riser was the
cause, so I started researching to find a more forgiving saddle. A lot of
people were very complimentary of the Specialized Toupe saddle for this
particular symptom, so I bought one. The final combined solution was
twofold: (1) saddle with better body geometry (excellent!) and (2) removal
of the plastic riser allowing the front tire to rest on the floor.

I haven't experienced any "pressure" problems on my road bike which has a
Fizik Arione saddle (approx. 5 degree forward tilt).

Ken Bour

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?

My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

Greatly appreciate a reply to [email hidden].

Thanking you in advance,

Trent

Jim Behning said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
convinced that position comes first in this problem.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
-------
I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
good happened.
~

If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker skin
on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks barefoot
all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than a person who
walks in shoes the same amount.

I have been using diaper rash ointment on my butt for quite a while
now (only when I ride). I put a liberal amount of that stuff on my
biking shorts and I can go for several hours with absolutely no
discomfort. I buy big cans at walgreens for about $11.00. I tried
other stuff, but zinc oxide (diaper rash ointment) doesn't break down
easily. I've gone from using thick padded short to skinny padded ones
and the ointment is great. For anyone who experiences discomfort while
riding, I highly recommend it. It will prevent chaffing and
irritation, but it won't prevent numbness though. BTW, my butt feels
smooth and doesn't seem to have riding calluses. I used to have a
rough butt and calluses both on my hands and butt the first few years
of my cycling life, 24 yrs ago. Not anymore.

Andres

DougC said:

Quoted message said:

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners, riders
who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher skin in the
appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put these two together
and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure points. I am not
convinced that position comes first in this problem.

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that requires it.
-------
I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is low-level
nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor concussions. Just
because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something
good happened.

I think you're worrying unnecessarily.

Ever work with your hands? Or play a musical instrument? Or even
spend a lot of time writing with a pencil? Your skin will toughen at
the points where it takes pressure.

It's only "damage" if you overdo it before gradually toughening the
skin. Then you get sore. It's no big deal!

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Jim Behning said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners,
> riders who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher
> skin in the appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put
> these two together and you get chafing raspberries on the
> pressure points. I am not convinced that position comes first
> in this problem. Jobst Brandt

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that
requires it. ------- I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting
used to a saddle" is low-level nerve damage, rather like how
boxers get used to minor concussions. Just because "it hurt at
first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something good happened.
~

If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker
skin on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks
barefoot all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than
a person who walks in shoes the same amount.

You know, I think it's not something I want to check! ;-) However,
It's quite likely that skin does toughen up. I have more trouble with
chafing and saddle sores in the spring every year, after two or three
months of relatively minimal riding (depending on the winter wondeland
weather), than I do in the summmer or fall even though my riders are
longer in those times of year.

Quoted message said:

I have been using diaper rash ointment on my butt for quite a while
now (only when I ride). I put a liberal amount of that stuff on my
biking shorts and I can go for several hours with absolutely no
discomfort. I buy big cans at walgreens for about $11.00. I tried
other stuff, but zinc oxide (diaper rash ointment) doesn't break down
easily. I've gone from using thick padded short to skinny padded
ones and the ointment is great. For anyone who experiences discomfort
while riding, I highly recommend it. It will prevent chaffing and
irritation, but it won't prevent numbness though. BTW, my butt feels
smooth and doesn't seem to have riding calluses. I used to have a
rough butt and calluses both on my hands and butt the first few years
of my cycling life, 24 yrs ago. Not anymore.

When I started playing guitar back in 1979, I developed thick, visible
callouses on my fingertips. Nearly 30 years later, the skin on my
fingertips is toughened but there has not been a thick callous on them
in years. I still play guitar a couple of hours a day- I use 12s on my
main guitars, 10s on the Sel-Mac copy. I think that the skin develops
toughness rather than callouses with constant exposure.

Doug Cimper said:

Quoted message said:

Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners,
riders who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher
skin in the appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put
these two together and you get chafing raspberries on the pressure
points. I am not convinced that position comes first in this
problem.

Quoted message said:

I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that
requires it.

Quoted message said:

I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting used to a saddle" is
low-level nerve damage, rather like how boxers get used to minor
concussions. Just because "it hurt at first but doesn't anymore"
doesn't mean something good happened.

This isn't about nerves but rather surface abrasion, just as skin on
the hands gets accustomed to handlebars. A new rider, if able to ride
long distances, would develop blisters from unaccustomed stress on
tender skin... on the hands and on the buttocks.

Just the same, there are lateral forces on the skin where one sits,
the smaller of these being absorbed by laterally displacing padding in
shear, whether on the saddle or in the shorts. That's why a thin
layer Spenco gel on saddles served a purpose. When riders started
choosing saddles by weight, padded shorts came to the rescue.

Jobst Brandt

Ken Bour said:

Can we assume that you are talking about perineum pressure?

No. This is about pelvic pressure on the wide part of the saddle.
Don't let's get started about saddles with fart slots.

Quoted message said:

If so, I had that problem recently on my indoor training
(stationary) bike. I was doing fine until I thought it would be a
good idea to put the front wheel up on one of those plastic risers.
That changed the position of the saddle relative to my torso
position, of course, which then placed enormous pressure on that
sensitive "nerve." My pecker went numb in just 15 minutes of
pedaling (I stupidly continued for the full hour) and normal
sensation took alarmingly long to return. I don't mind reporting
that this experience worried me! Truthfully, I didn't realize at
first that the riser was the cause, so I started researching to find
a more forgiving saddle. A lot of people were very complimentary of
the Specialized Toupe saddle for this particular symptom, so I
bought one. The final combined solution was twofold: (1) saddle
with better body geometry (excellent!) and (2) removal of the
plastic riser allowing the front tire to rest on the floor.

This is an old story of non bicyclists telling us that we will become
impotent if we persist in riding on conventional bicycle saddles.

There will always be people with special physical problems who should
not try to tell the rest of bicyclists that they also have this
problem and should, for instance, ride recumbents and the like.

Quoted message said:

I haven't experienced any "pressure" problems on my road bike which
has a Fizik Arione saddle (approx. 5 degree forward tilt).

I'm glad you found a solution to your problem.

Jobst Brandt

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

Jim Behning said:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:27:15 -0600, DougC <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> [email hidden] wrote:
>
>> Poor riding positions are most commonly found with beginners,
>> riders who have no long term mileage that would develop tougher
>> skin in the appropriate areas of contact with the saddle. Put
>> these two together and you get chafing raspberries on the
>> pressure points. I am not convinced that position comes first
>> in this problem. Jobst Brandt
>
> I don't want tough skin on my ass, and won't do anything that
> requires it. ------- I tend to suspect that a lot of "getting
> used to a saddle" is low-level nerve damage, rather like how
> boxers get used to minor concussions. Just because "it hurt at
> first but doesn't anymore" doesn't mean something good happened. ~
If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
hands. You do not find a walking person who does not have thicker
skin on the bottom of their feet. If you find a person who walks
barefoot all the time outside they may have even thicker skin than
a person who walks in shoes the same amount.

You know, I think it's not something I want to check! ;-) However,
It's quite likely that skin does toughen up. I have more trouble with
chafing and saddle sores in the spring every year, after two or three
months of relatively minimal riding (depending on the winter wondeland
weather), than I do in the summmer or fall even though my riders are
longer in those times of year....

Politically incorrect comment: I do not.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.

aka Jobst Brandt said:

...
There will always be people with special physical problems who should
not try to tell the rest of bicyclists that they also have this
problem and should, for instance, ride recumbents and the like.

Similarly, there will always be upright riders that should not try to
tell EVERYONE that proper fit on an upright will cure comfort problems
for ALL riders. Some post here regularly.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Tradition is the worst rational for action.

Per DougC:

Quoted message said:

So why the padded shorts then? Why all the different-shaped and widths
of saddles? Or does that comfort not count?

It's pain reduction, not comfort.... -)
--
PeteCresswell

Per Jim Behning:

Quoted message said:

If you were to check the skin condition of any rider who rides more
than a few hours a week I would bet you would find calloused or
toughened up skin where the saddle hits or rubs. You do not find a
carpenter who uses a hammer all day that does not have calloused
hands.

I wonder what would be found on the ichial tuberosities
themselves.

Back in my surfing days, I and my fellow surfers used to get
these large tumor-like lumps on our shins - from paddling the
board while kneeling on it. The skin wasn't all that tough, but
the lump made a pad between the board and the shin bone.
--
PeteCresswell

Quoted message said:

Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?

My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

Greatly appreciate a reply to [email hidden].

Thanking you in advance,

Trent

you should try the new selle success kevlar saddle. what you really
need is not width, but sit bone support.
carlos
www.bikingthings.com
Get Faster, Enjoy Cycling, Get Fit, Live Better.

Quoted message said:

Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?

My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

Greatly appreciate a reply to [email hidden].

Thanking you in advance,

Trent

Brooks saddles. Problems solved.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can anyone out there recommend a "dual platform" seat?

My bikes have the traditional narrow seat and I'm experiencing the
typical nerve damage and pain to the point where I can't ride
anymore. I have a "road bike" and a "hybrid" touring bike.

Greatly appreciate a reply to [email hidden].

Thanking you in advance,

Trent

Brooks saddles. Problems solved.

Are you sure? You give a refund if it doesn't solve the problem?

Lou
--
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