bike route: sidewalk?

brink said:

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that riding on
the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)

Well, I think for certain areas, riding on the sidewalk is okay.

Many bridges, for example, have large walkways/sidewalks where
bicyclists are supposed to go and it is probably safer than trying to
squeeze them into a lane with a bunch of dazed drivers who are going
much faster.

This is the same reason I won't ride on the freeway - I'd be paranoid
about getting clipped by someone from behind.

As for basic riding on city streets, I'll ride with traffic then and not
feel uncomfortable.

brink said:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a sidewalk
marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a concrete
bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as and call a
sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH arterial road.

it was a little ambiguous but let me explain: it was typical "BIKE ROUTE"
green signage that seemed to indicate that the bike route was the sidewalk.
it didn't literally say "on sidewalk," but the signage was *on* the
sidewalk* designed to be read by someone pedaling (or walking) *against* the
flow of traffic. it was not positioned for drivers since it was way over on
the other side of the road--a southbound driver would see it way way over to
his left across three of four lanes of traffic.

palm springs has a large bike route circuit throughout the city but never
verified if it is indeed a sidewalk route. anyone know anything about the
palm springs bike route?

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that riding on
the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)

brink

They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up as bike
lanes but only one one side of the street.

The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're riding
against traffic, and should you need to cross the street, it's problematic,
especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided highway, again, because
the sidewalk/bike route is typically only on one side of the street.

You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic or using
the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this route to
assess the utility of single side of the road double sidewalk riding.

-jj

denver's cherry creek trail uses a sidewalk near the mall and denver
country club.

there is an option to go behind the mall, but i use the north side for
my needs.

it's definetely the most dangerous part, two mall exits with cars
lurching into crosswalks, a few bus stops with people milling about or
entering/exiting busses, and lots of general pedestrian traffic

but i just slow down and stay assertive

"brink" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a
sidewalk marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a
concrete bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as
and call a sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH
arterial road.

Thanks for confirming my sanity... I mentioned a similar thing about
Riverside previously. I guess CA does really have formal bike routes on
sidewalks, probably because so few people walk on them.

--ag

"andy gee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"brink" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a
sidewalk marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a
concrete bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as
and call a sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH
arterial road.

Thanks for confirming my sanity... I mentioned a similar thing about
Riverside previously. I guess CA does really have formal bike routes on
sidewalks, probably because so few people walk on them.

i think that's it--these are fairly low-volume sidewalks for pedestrians.
didn't see many bikes for that matter. and with all the old folks cruising
around just this side of legal blindness, perhaps the city planners have
seen the wisdom of a policy of "keep em separated"... ;-)

once you get near downtown, where there are gobs of pedestrians milling
around, bicycles are explicitly prohibited on the sidewalks.

brink

Matt O'Toole said:

But bikes
are generally prohibited from using sidewalks except where explicitly allowed --
thus the "bike route" sign.

Matt O.

Not quite, there is no STATE law in CA that prohibits anyone from
riding on sidewalks. Thus, leaving sidewalk laws up to local
municipalities. You have to check with your local authorities to see
what the ordinances are regarding sidewalks in your area. Some towns
ban all sidewalk riding some towns have some of both. See CA law click
here> http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm

Same with Florida. No STATE law against riding bicycles on sidewalks.
It's up to the local Govt. to make bicycle laws or there are none and
your free to ride wherever you want. See here>
http://www.dot.state.fl.us/safety/ped_bike/laws/ped_bike_bikeLaws1.htm

I use to obey all the laws until I just about got run over. Now I ride
wherever I feel like it's the safest. I figure I'd rather get a
ticket for riding a sidewalk then be half dead in the hospital because
I obeyed the law.

John

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:07:10 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

jj said:

They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up
as bike lanes but only one one side of the street.

Quoted message said:

The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're riding
against traffic, and should you need to cross the street, it's
problematic, especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided
highway, again, because the sidewalk/bike route is typically only on
one side of the street.

Quoted message said:

You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic or
using the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this
route to assess the utility of single side of the road double
sidewalk riding.

These are an abomination. I wish we could get a state law passed banning them.

Matt O.

Yeah, because of the frequently hedge-shielded driveways it's one of the
more dangerous areas I've ridden and I just go out on the road now. Drivers
just don't expect you there.

On a similar note, I've had to hollar at several drivers lately. One lady
coming up a hill, gravel, similar to a driveway to my right to merge onto
my road and saw me coming, started to move out saw I continued riding by,
tried to edge out again, as though 'hey you're a bike you stop, me go'.
Fortunately she stopped when I hollared, but dammit if she wouldn't have
just watched herself drive into the side of me if I hadn't yelled.

Another driver is coming up behind me, down a long slow straightaway, and
I'm watching her in my mirror. She continues on a path to run me over,
surprisingly, and just as I'm about to dive for the hedgerows, she swerves
over, as though she was driving with eyes closed up until then.

Finally right in front of my house I'm getting ready to swing around and go
into my driveway and do a quick check mirror check and YIKES, a little red
car slowly and silently following me so closely it makes me jump to see
her. No danger of being hit, but [censored] who follows that closely, maybe three
feet off my rear wheel - and why!

A few feet further and she turns into her driveway one up from mine.
Dumbass.

jj

jj <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:07:10 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>
:> wrote:
:>
:>>jj wrote:
:>>
:>>> They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up
:>>> as bike lanes but only one one side of the street.
:>>
:>>> The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're
:>>> riding against traffic, and should you need to cross the street,
:>>> it's
:>>> problematic, especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided
:>>> highway, again, because the sidewalk/bike route is typically only
:>>> on
:>>> one side of the street.
:>>
:>>> You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic
:>>> or
:>>> using the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this
:>>> route to assess the utility of single side of the road double
:>>> sidewalk riding.
:>>
:>>These are an abomination. I wish we could get a state law passed
:>>banning them.
:>>
:>>Matt O.
:>
:> Yeah, because of the frequently hedge-shielded driveways it's one of
:> the
:> more dangerous areas I've ridden and I just go out on the road now.
:> Drivers just don't expect you there.
:>
:> On a similar note, I've had to hollar at several drivers lately. One
:> lady coming up a hill, gravel, similar to a driveway to my right to
:> merge onto
:> my road and saw me coming,

How do you know she saw you, jj? did you wave at her and see her wave back?

started to move out saw I continued
:> riding by, tried to edge out again, as though 'hey you're a bike you
:> stop, me go'. Fortunately she stopped when I hollared, but dammit if
:> she wouldn't have
:> just watched herself drive into the side of me if I hadn't yelled.
:>
:> Another driver is coming up behind me, down a long slow
:> straightaway, and
:> I'm watching her in my mirror. She continues on a path to run me
:> over, surprisingly, and just as I'm about to dive for the hedgerows,
:> she swerves over, as though she was driving with eyes closed up
:> until then.

Maybe she didn't see you. You still wearing black?

:>
:> Finally right in front of my house I'm getting ready to swing around
:> and go into my driveway and do a quick check mirror check and YIKES,
:> a little red
:> car slowly and silently following me so closely it makes me jump to
:> see
:> her. No danger of being hit, but [censored] who follows that closely,
:> maybe three feet off my rear wheel - and why!

Maybe she was spying your bums, man! 🙂

:>
:> A few feet further and she turns into her driveway one up from mine.
:> Dumbass.

hmmm...... It really could have been a judgment call in her part, however
poor.

John said:

Matt O'Toole wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But bikes
are generally prohibited from using sidewalks except where
explicitly allowed -- thus the "bike route" sign.

Quoted message said:

Not quite, there is no STATE law in CA that prohibits anyone from
riding on sidewalks. Thus, leaving sidewalk laws up to local
municipalities. You have to check with your local authorities to see
what the ordinances are regarding sidewalks in your area. Some towns
ban all sidewalk riding some towns have some of both. See CA law
click here> http://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm

This is true, which is why I used the word "generally." And it is generally the
case.

Matt O.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:50:03 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

jj <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:07:10 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>
:> wrote:
:>
:>
:> On a similar note, I've had to hollar at several drivers lately. One
:> lady coming up a hill, gravel, similar to a driveway to my right to
:> merge onto
:> my road and saw me coming,

How do you know she saw you, jj? did you wave at her and see her wave back?

She was about 3 feet away and looked me up and down through an open window
for several seconds, looked at the street, looked back at me.

Quoted message said:

started to move out saw I continued
:> riding by, tried to edge out again, as though 'hey you're a bike you
:> stop, me go'. Fortunately she stopped when I hollared, but dammit if
:> she wouldn't have
:> just watched herself drive into the side of me if I hadn't yelled.
:>
:> Another driver is coming up behind me, down a long slow
:> straightaway, and
:> I'm watching her in my mirror. She continues on a path to run me
:> over, surprisingly, and just as I'm about to dive for the hedgerows,
:> she swerves over, as though she was driving with eyes closed up
:> until then.

Maybe she didn't see you. You still wearing black?

Always wear a red shirt. Broad daylight, treeless street, 2pm, bright
sunshine.

Quoted message said:

:> Finally right in front of my house I'm getting ready to swing around
:> and go into my driveway and do a quick check mirror check and YIKES,
:> a little red
:> car slowly and silently following me so closely it makes me jump to
:> see
:> her. No danger of being hit, but [censored] who follows that closely,
:> maybe three feet off my rear wheel - and why!

Maybe she was spying your bums, man! 🙂

If I had a bobble and had fallen over, she'd have slowly run me over at
that distance.

Quoted message said:

:>
:> A few feet further and she turns into her driveway one up from mine.
:> Dumbass.

hmmm...... It really could have been a judgment call in her part, however
poor.

Judgement hell. Shoulda been ticketted for reckless endangerment. Fsking
a-hole. ;-)

-jj

brink said:

question:

i was in palm springs, CA this week and noticed what appeared to a
sidewalk marked as a bike route. no it wasn't a mixed use trail or a
concrete bikepath... it was quite clearly what we'd all recognize as
and call a sidewalk, immediately adjacent to a busy four-lane 45 MPH
arterial road.

it was a little ambiguous but let me explain: it was typical "BIKE
ROUTE" green signage that seemed to indicate that the bike route was
the sidewalk. it didn't literally say "on sidewalk," but the signage
was *on* the sidewalk* designed to be read by someone pedaling (or
walking) *against* the flow of traffic. it was not positioned for
drivers since it was way over on the other side of the road--a
southbound driver would see it way way over to his left across three
of four lanes of traffic.

palm springs has a large bike route circuit throughout the city but
never verified if it is indeed a sidewalk route. anyone know
anything about the palm springs bike route?

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that
riding on the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)

If it has one of those little green "bike route" signs then that sidepath is
indeed a bike route. Such routes are often provided near busy roads for the
benefit of timid/casual cyclists who don't want to use the roadway. You're not
required to use them if you don't want to though. Bikes are allowed on all
roads in CA except where explicity prohibited, as on most freeways. But bikes
are generally prohibited from using sidewalks except where explicitly allowed --
thus the "bike route" sign.

Matt O.

jj said:

They have this in Va Beach - almost double wide sidewalks marked up
as bike lanes but only one one side of the street.

Quoted message said:

The problem is, when you come back along the same route, you're riding
against traffic, and should you need to cross the street, it's
problematic, especially if the sidewalk/route borders a divided
highway, again, because the sidewalk/bike route is typically only on
one side of the street.

Quoted message said:

You're left with trying to cross the street going against traffic or
using the crosswalk or some kludge. Doubt the 'planners' rode this
route to assess the utility of single side of the road double
sidewalk riding.

These are an abomination. I wish we could get a state law passed banning them.

Matt O.

Bill Henry said:

brink said:

i know this seems a little paranoid but i can't easily shake that
riding on the sidewalk was "wrong"... ;-)

Well, I think for certain areas, riding on the sidewalk is okay.

Many bridges, for example, have large walkways/sidewalks where
bicyclists are supposed to go and it is probably safer than trying to
squeeze them into a lane with a bunch of dazed drivers who are going
much faster.

This is the same reason I won't ride on the freeway - I'd be paranoid
about getting clipped by someone from behind.

As for basic riding on city streets, I'll ride with traffic then and not
feel uncomfortable.

Yeah,
There are bridges in my area where you ride on the sidewalk or else. The
or else can mean getting splatted or having a cop write you up for being
on a road that is just making the transition from freeway to 45 MPH. We
have 3 bridges like that and nobody takes a bike on the car part of the
road. That would invoke the 'Darwin' clause on some of the 'claim the
lane' riders on here.
1.) Both bridges between Yuba City and Marysville.
2.) The bridge from Marysville to highway 65/70.
Those are 3 bridges that you MUST ride on the sidewalk.
Bill (100% correct on this) Baka