bike purchase question

Basically, you have already begun to answer your question.

Buy the one in which the ride, and the other benefits (as they apply to you and how you ride) are
not outweighed by the price.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

I question your decision to overlook the Trek 2300 (aluminum alloy) versus the Trek 5200 (carbon
frame). The only difference between these two models is the frame. Everything else (including the
fork) are the same except for an extra $800 for the carbon fiber 5200. Trek doesn't publish the
weight of their frames but I've been told by several dealers that the 2300 aluminum frame is
actually "lighter" than the 5200 carbon fiber so go figure? . "Dennis Vaughn" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call
it now) cause I like the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the
manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike

over

Quoted message said:

steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be
nice. Oh, the three carbon frames I've ridden

are

Quoted message said:

Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding aluminum bike I've
ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly rode nice as well. These are just the ones that I've
ridden and liked. Dennis

Dennis, check out this article by Sheldon on bike frame materials.
sheldonbrown.comframe materials.htmlOpen ↗ Don't miss the section on Vertical stiffness.
Sheldon is a bit crazy 🙂, but he doesn't just make this stuff up.

Also, (a bit long winded but a good read all the same), Keith Bontrager wrote an article on frame
stiffness. bontrager.comrants.aspOpen ↗

Sheldon's stuff should get you over your prejudices towards aluminum and on to finding your
dream ride.

BTW, I ride a titanium mountain frame and a steel road frame. It's just whatever you prefer.

"Dennis Vaughn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call
it now) cause I like the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the
manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike

over

Quoted message said:

steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be
nice. Oh, the three carbon frames I've ridden

are

Quoted message said:

Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding aluminum bike I've
ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly rode nice as well. These are just the ones that I've
ridden and liked. Dennis

And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as pretty looking.

"BillX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I question your decision to overlook the Trek 2300 (aluminum alloy) versus the Trek 5200 (carbon
frame). The only difference between these two

models

Quoted message said:

is the frame. Everything else (including the fork) are the same except

for

Quoted message said:

an extra $800 for the carbon fiber 5200. Trek doesn't publish the weight

of

Quoted message said:

their frames but I've been told by several dealers that the 2300 aluminum frame is actually
"lighter" than the 5200 carbon fiber so go figure? . "Dennis Vaughn" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I
have eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they
call it now) cause I

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the manufacture). My
question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike

over

Quoted message said:

steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be
nice. Oh, the three carbon frames I've ridden

are

Quoted message said:

Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding aluminum bike I've
ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly

rode

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nice as well. These are just the ones that I've ridden and liked. Dennis

Dennis Vaughn said:

I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein.

Hmm.

Quoted message said:

Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call it now) cause I like the smoothness of
the ride,

Uh...

Quoted message said:

or carbon fiber (composite depending on the manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to
buy a carbon bike over steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the
ride. Any help would be nice.

The words and issues you choose in asking your question indicate that you have been listening to
people who know a lot more about selling bikes than they know about bikes.

For instance, did you know that steel is 3 times stiffer than aluminum? Or that carbon fiber
reinforced plastics have no intrinsic properties that could allow them to have a
characteristic "ride"?

I will not get into it except to say this: The design of a specific bike frame will have more to do
with its "ride" than will the material in it. And the components used to build up the bike will have
more affect on the "ride" than the frame does. Tires alone can transform the ride and handling
qualities of a bike far more than any possible permutations of tubing material, shape, and diameter
in a bike frame.

The issues to consider in rough order of importance go something like this:

1. Rider fit
2. Suitability for intended use
3. Cost
4. Dealer support
5. Warranty
6. Reasonably foreseeable durability
7. Parts compatibility
8. Weight relative to comparable bikes
9. Spoke count
10. Paint color
11. Riding buddies' opinions
12. Country of origin
13. Perceived/anticipated ride quality
14. Quality of handlebar tape
15. Any residual odors on saddle
16. Mom's opinion
17. Intactness of nubbles on tires
18. Wife's opinion and so forth....

If you get hung up trying to make you decision based on factor #13, you may blow it with regard to
one or more of those top five issues. So try to do a more thorough job of sorting out what works
best for you on those criteria that will actually affect how well you will ride, how much you will
ride, and how much value you will get from your bike.

Pretty much all comparisons based on criteria like soft vs. hard ride, stable vs. nimble handling,
vibration damping etc., are straight-up [censored]. Folks who frame the choice in those terms, be they
magazine writers, salesmen, or whatever, are trying to manipulate you into making a decision
contrary to what your own top five criteria might suggest.

So don't let extraneous details like frame material or worse yet, the ride qualities you erroneously
ascribe to a given frame material, muddy your decision-making process. Reckon what you need in a
bike, what you would like anyway, and how much you wish to spend. If you wind up with a bike that
needs bigger tires to deliver the "silky smooth yet responsive, stiff yet compliant, stable yet
nimble ride" you crave, well you were going to need new treads sooner or later anyway.

Chalo Colina

Quoted message said:

And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as pretty looking.

However, the Klein incorporates the carbon fiber seatstays that are currently in vogue. The geometry
is radically different as well; the TREK is pretty much classic Italian road race geometry as it's
existed for many years, while the Klein has steeper angles and a considerably longer top tube.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

I stand corrected on the carbon stays. Are all the Klein road bikes this year doing that?

/the shame of working at a Trek dealer that does little or no Klein business.

Kurd

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as

pretty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

looking.

However, the Klein incorporates the carbon fiber seatstays that are currently in vogue. The
geometry is radically different as well; the TREK is pretty much classic Italian road race
geometry as it's existed for many years, while the Klein has steeper angles and a considerably
longer top tube.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Dennis-<< My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike over steel? The prices for carbon
are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride.

Custom steel Nobilettes are $1200, Calfee carbon Luna is $1300....

<< Any help would be nice.

Get a bike fit first!!. On a fit cycle with a well trained fit person, then look at those framesets
that fit ya.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

I was in your shoes two days ago. I went to 6 different LBSs and one sports store and tried 9
different entry level bikes. I selected for the first bike I tried out, the Jamis Aurora, and
changed out to 25 mm tires (from 30) for free thanks to the LBS. The Raleigh Grand Sport was the
only bike that came close to the ride (in my opinion), but they couldn't come close to the Jamis
price. The fitting by an experienced LBS owner (Bluto's first issue) is the MOST IMPORTANT thing!
Don't spend hours upon hours trying to resolve issue 13 (see below in Bluto's email). After going
through all the BS I did, I can say, Bluto's issues 1-8 (and 15! 🙂 are satisfied, buy it!

"Bluto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dennis Vaughn said:

I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I
have eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein.

Hmm.

Quoted message said:

Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call it now) cause I

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the smoothness of the ride,

Uh...

Quoted message said:

or carbon fiber (composite depending on the manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to
buy a carbon bike

over

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would
be nice.

The words and issues you choose in asking your question indicate that you have been listening to
people who know a lot more about selling bikes than they know about bikes.

For instance, did you know that steel is 3 times stiffer than aluminum? Or that carbon fiber
reinforced plastics have no intrinsic properties that could allow them to have a
characteristic "ride"?

I will not get into it except to say this: The design of a specific bike frame will have more to
do with its "ride" than will the material in it. And the components used to build up the bike will
have more affect on the "ride" than the frame does. Tires alone can transform the ride and
handling qualities of a bike far more than any possible permutations of tubing material, shape,
and diameter in a bike frame.

The issues to consider in rough order of importance go something like this:

1. Rider fit
2. Suitability for intended use
3. Cost
4. Dealer support
5. Warranty
6. Reasonably foreseeable durability
7. Parts compatibility
8. Weight relative to comparable bikes
9. Spoke count
10. Paint color
11. Riding buddies' opinions
12. Country of origin
13. Perceived/anticipated ride quality
14. Quality of handlebar tape
15. Any residual odors on saddle
16. Mom's opinion
17. Intactness of nubbles on tires
18. Wife's opinion and so forth....

If you get hung up trying to make you decision based on factor #13, you may blow it with regard to
one or more of those top five issues. So try to do a more thorough job of sorting out what works
best for you on those criteria that will actually affect how well you will ride, how much you will
ride, and how much value you will get from your bike.

Pretty much all comparisons based on criteria like soft vs. hard ride, stable vs. nimble handling,
vibration damping etc., are straight-up [censored]. Folks who frame the choice in those terms, be
they magazine writers, salesmen, or whatever, are trying to manipulate you into making a decision
contrary to what your own top five criteria might suggest.

So don't let extraneous details like frame material or worse yet, the ride qualities you
erroneously ascribe to a given frame material, muddy your decision-making process. Reckon what you
need in a bike, what you would like anyway, and how much you wish to spend. If you wind up with a
bike that needs bigger tires to deliver the "silky smooth yet responsive, stiff yet compliant,
stable yet nimble ride" you crave, well you were going to need new treads sooner or later anyway.

Chalo Colina

Quoted message said:

I stand corrected on the carbon stays. Are all the Klein road bikes this year doing that?

Yes, this year all Klein road bikes have carbon stays.

Quoted message said:

/the shame of working at a Trek dealer that does little or no Klein business.

You'll just have to sell more Kleins! Unfortunately, that's not easily done this year; Klein has had
terrible delivery problems for some time.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Kurd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I stand corrected on the carbon stays. Are all the Klein road bikes this year doing that?

/the shame of working at a Trek dealer that does little or no Klein business.

Kurd

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as

pretty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

looking.

However, the Klein incorporates the carbon fiber seatstays that are currently in vogue. The
geometry is radically different as well; the

TREK

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is pretty much classic Italian road race geometry as it's existed for

many

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years, while the Klein has steeper angles and a considerably longer top tube.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Hey Chalo, where does "cool factor" go on tour list? ;-3)

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗