I've seen and read about the various methods of bike fitting and have a question about saddle fore/aft position. It seems like the general consensus with fore/aft position is that a saddle that is too far forward from the starting position (plumb line dropped from the patella, etc. etc.) will cause anterior knee pain and/or patella femoral syndrome, and will use primarily the quadriceps, while a saddle that is too far back will use primarily the glutes and hamstrings and possibly cause posterior knee pain.
My question is...has anyone experienced or does anyone know a person who has experienced posterior knee pain from a saddle that is too far back? How exactly does this posterior knee pain occur and is there a clinical name/description for what can happen here?
I have my saddle pretty far back and still have yet to experience any posterior knee pain, but when I put my saddle even a little bit forward my knee is back in front of the pedal axle again. Everything feels good on the bike, but just thought of this question as I was getting it set up.
I have my saddle pretty far back and still have yet to experience any posterior knee pain, but when I put my saddle even a little bit forward my knee is back in front of the pedal axle again. Everything feels good on the bike, but just thought of this question as I was getting it set up.
If moving the seat forward puts your knee in front of the pedal axle, then it sounds like the seat is currently in the correct position. You shouldn't expect any posterior knee pain in that position. The seat may seem "pretty far back" if you have long thighs and big feet, but if the knee is directly above the pedal then it's really in the right position for you.
As your feet move around the entire pedal circumference, the fitting should take this into account - not just referencing a single point on the circumference (ie pedals at 3 o'clock & 9 o'clock).
I've generally associated tenderness behind the patella with an excessively high seat position. Fore/aft position of the saddle has a greater effect on how & which muscle groups are used in my experience.
This is interesting, I have never really thought about it before. Regarding the knee pain, is it even possible to have a road saddle far enough forward that the position would be similar to a TT bike? Is TT geometry known for causing knee pain? I always thought it was supposed to be better, but that having it further back allowed you more power 😕 FWIW I have mine way way back (as far as it will go), but like frenchyge pointed out, I have long femurs and feet...I have never had any knee pain.
This is interesting, I have never really thought about it before. Regarding the knee pain, is it even possible to have a road saddle far enough forward that the position would be similar to a TT bike? Is TT geometry known for causing knee pain? I always thought it was supposed to be better, but that having it further back allowed you more power 😕 FWIW I have mine way way back (as far as it will go), but like frenchyge pointed out, I have long femurs and feet...I have never had any knee pain.
I know I feel more powerful when I slide back on the saddle, but TT bikes all seem to be pretty straight over the pedals. Maybe it's because the torso is bent over so far during TT that shifting the saddle forward helps open the hips back up.
I tried a training TT the other night (which I seldom do) on my "trainer bike" because I couldn't get my aero bars on to my regular ride. I noticed during the TT that I was really sitting "on the rivet" (front of the saddle), and decided that next time I was going to try shifting the saddle further forward to try to achieve more of a TT bike geometry. I'll probably have to tilt the saddle down slightly too.
I know I feel more powerful when I slide back on the saddle, but TT bikes all seem to be pretty straight over the pedals. Maybe it's because the torso is bent over so far during TT that shifting the saddle forward helps open the hips back up.
I tried a training TT the other night (which I seldom do) on my "trainer bike" because I couldn't get my aero bars on to my regular ride. I noticed during the TT that I was really sitting "on the rivet" (front of the saddle), and decided that next time I was going to try shifting the saddle further forward to try to achieve more of a TT bike geometry. I'll probably have to tilt the saddle down slightly too.
Authorities on time trialling position tell me that you really want to rotate your bike position for a time trial compared to your normal RR position. That is because TT bars put you a bit further forward with your head down, you need to bring your seat forward a bit. I'm not sure if you need to change the seat angle much, probably a personal choice. Otherwise your set up geometry is pretty much the same, you have just rotated your position a few degrees.
I'm no authority on this myself, so stand to be corrected.
I've generally associated tenderness behind the patella with an excessively high seat position. Fore/aft position of the saddle has a greater effect on how & which muscle groups are used in my experience.
That's interesting. I was having that problem with one of my knees last week and sorted it out by moving my saddle up.
That's interesting. I was having that problem with one of my knees last week and sorted it out by moving my saddle up.
One thing about that I know for sure is that according to USA Cycling (2005.1), posterior knee pain can arise from a saddle height that is too low, while anterior knee pain can arise from a variety of ways, but a saddle that is too high can be one cause.
I have had patella pain from my seat too far back. I was having pain on a hard hill and had to sit on the nose of the seat for the pain to go away. Once the ride was over, I realized my seat had slipped all the way back because I didn't have the seat bolt tight enough. I have a tendancy to push back on my seat when riding and must have moved the seat over time. I moved it up and tightened it very tight. No problems with the knee since.
That's strange. Unless this info is outdated. Although it's from 2005, so I dunno. I just checked again and found that a saddle too far forward puts undue stress on the patellar tendon (i.e. anterior knee pain). There could be other issues (such as seat height) that were causing that problem. When you shift forward or backward on a saddle you effectively increase or decrease the saddle height, so that could be an issue as well.
