Bike Pedals - Should I Go Clipless?

I don't doubt the efficiency of clipless pedals, I'm just trying to
figure out if they're right for the type of riding I do, and also
worth the $$$.

Do clipless pedals tend to pop out under rougher conditions? Do
mountain bikers use them, or just road bikers?

I had just this conversation with a lady friend of mine on Saturday. What
you and she both overlook is that the clipless pedals allow you to pedal
both on the downstroke and on the upstroke. It works more muscles, is more
efficient, and the learning curve is short (about 5 minutes!)

So, yes, clipless is better. You can get some shoes for about $55 (you don't
have to get the high end shoes to do this) and clipless pedals come with the
cleats that go on the shoes. Some Shimano SPD or even one of the imitations
can be had fairly cheaply. For example, go to a local bike store or look in
www.bikenashbar.com

It is worth it. No doubt about that. Soon, you will be pedaling in a circle
instead of just pushing down on the platform pedal. You'll be more
efficient, use more muscles, etc.

Pat in TX

I don't have any non street experience. For road riding, they do offer the
advantage of giving you a more solid connection with the pedals. This
improves confidence and allows you to be more aggressive. Your feet don't
come off the pedals accidently (or, there is less chance of that happening).
Clipless can be set so that you can get out very easily, such as when coming
to a stop or if you fall in a crash. Just the twisting of your feet relative
to the bike will get you out.

I don't really buy the argument of these pedaling systems offering any speed
advantages (apart from the more positive connection to the bike, mind you).
Yes, you can pull up and push down, but I don't think the pulling up is such
a good idea (a slight twist will get you out) and it will tire you out
quicker. In the end, it's basically best (IMO) to work on developing a
smooth stroke & high cadence. To go X mph will take the same energy and all
of it comes from your body. The pushing/pulling, circular pedalling
arguments are just theoretical for the most part. Turning the pedals in a
confident manner is what gets and keeps you moving. IMO.

Given that I know zero about mountain riding, I'd offer that if you're not
doing techincal trails & paths, the clipless pedals will offer you the same
advantages as they do for road cyclists.

I will also say that I have two friends who are long-time cyclist who don't
use clipless pedals. They seem to do just fine, too. I have clipless on my
road bike and do not will have them on my recumbent . I like them better on
the upright as I feel that since a significant part of my weight rests on my
feet when on an upright, it's better to have a solid connection there.

I dont think you need to spend so much on pedals & shoes. House brand SPDs
at performance/nashbar should save you some money. You can also get SPDs
types that have platforms on them so you can ride in normal shoes as well
has having a bigger area to spread the load of your foot on the pedal. Some
come with SPD on one side and platforms on the other, while others come with
combination SPD and platforms on both sides. There are still other types of
clipless but they may cost more.

Frankly, I'm not certain SPDs will make that much difference for you.
However, you might want to talk to people who do techincal trails for their
comments. I do believe that lots of mountain cyclist used some form of
clipless -- they certain have enough shoes sold for mountain bikers!

Oh, if you do go clipless, expect to fall a few times! 🙂

taddy wrote:
:: I thought I'd give this question a try here, since we have a few avid
:: cyclists.
::
:: I started cycling last year, normally 4x weekly for a couple of hours
:: per ride. I have an older Trek mountain bike that is in great
:: condition, since I had hardly used it previously. Last year I rode
:: in athletic shoes (the bike has pedals with clips). Several people
:: suggested that I should switch to clipless pedals and the appropriate
:: shoe. I was told that this would improve the efficiency and quality
:: of my rides. I'm trying to decide if I need to do this. I'm
:: figuring this will be somewhere between a $150-200 expenditure
:: between shoes and pedals.
::
:: I don't do any montain biking at this point, almost all of my riding
:: is on trails/paths, which are generally crushed rock, dirt and
:: occasionally asphalt. Of course I spend some time on the street. I
:: ride at cruising speed (I'm not into racing or timing my rides), and
:: my main goal is fitness and enjoying the outdoors. This summer I am
:: anticipating rides of 25-40 miles per session, maybe even a couple of
:: longer ones thrown in.
::
:: Do clipless pedals make sense for me? Would upgrading my current
:: clipped pedals be a better option (they are the originals from 1991).
:: Are the clipped pedals more all-purpose for someone like me, or is
:: clipless really the way to go? One thing that concerns me is
:: handling any bumpy or rough terrain with clipless pedals, in the
:: case that I occasionally attempt some rougher trails. Also, if I
:: use clipless pedals I am committed to shoes designed for this, and
:: if I have a shoe malfunction I'm out of luck. I have no idea how
:: durable these things are.
::
:: I'm interested in any advice, thanks.

Pat wrote:
::: I don't really buy the argument of these pedaling systems offering
::: any speed advantages (apart from the more positive connection to
::: the bike, mind you). Yes, you can pull up and push down, but I
::: don't think the pulling up is such a good idea (a slight twist will
::: get you out) and it will tire you out quicker. In the end, it's
::: basically best (IMO) to work on developing a smooth stroke & high
::: cadence. To go X mph will take the same energy and all of it comes
::: from your body. The pushing/pulling, circular pedalling arguments
::: are just theoretical for the most part. Turning the pedals in a
::: confident manner is what gets and keeps you moving. IMO.
::
:: No, you're wrong there, Roger. We all need to strive for a circular
:: pedalling motion. "pushing down and pulling up" is not circular.
:: Your stroke cannot become "smooth" unless you are moving your foot
:: in a circular motion. If not, you are just zigging and zagging,
:: which is a lot more tiring than a smooth motion. I even think you
:: are wrong out the "take the same energy" argument. If you are more
:: efficient, you use less energy. Try using that "same energy"
:: argument in swimming sometime. Efficiency=less tiring.
::

Pat....what other ways are there to move your feet on pedals? If your feet
go as the pedals go, then your feet are automatically moving in a circular
motion. All there is left to do is do it smoothly, which can only mean
maintaining an even motion on the pedals, which leads to an efficient
cadence. If your feet move with the pedals, then they are going in a
circular motion. Clipless enable this better than otherwise simply because
you don't have to worry about your feet coming off. On platforms, your foot
could move on the pedal, which thus will ruin efficiency. Also, your foot
might not even be positioned right on the platform, which again can sap
efficiency. If you're wearing clips, your foot could still come off, which
will always leave you more doubtful about what's going on with pedals than
otherwise.

This business about pulling up with one foot while pushing down with the
other is the argument that claims that additional muscles are used while
pedalling. Yes, it can be done but this is not at all a natural motion.
It's not any more efficient, either, but it is tiring.

::
:::
::: I will also say that I have two friends who are long-time cyclist
::: who don't use clipless pedals. They seem to do just fine, too. I
::: have clipless on my road bike and do not will have them on my
::: recumbent . I like them better on the upright as I feel that since
::: a significant part of my weight rests on my feet when on an
::: upright, it's better to have a solid connection there.
::
:: Without them on your recumbent, be careful of getting your foot
:: sucked backward. I haven't done that, but I hear it is painful.

Yes, foot suck can be an issue, but I don't think it's a problem on my
recumbent. It certainly is a problem on some recumbents, like trikes.

Do you have a recumbent? I find mine a lot of fun to ride, but it sucks
going uphill compared to my upright.

::
::: Oh, if you do go clipless, expect to fall a few times! 🙂
::
:: Huh? Didn't happen for me!

Good. I think it happens to most people who switch to clipless.

::
::
:: Pat in TX

"taddy">I don't doubt the efficiency of clipless pedals, I'm just trying to

Quoted message said:

figure out if they're right for the type of riding I do, and also
worth the $$$.

Once you go clipless, you won't go back to platform pedals. Your riding will
be better, easier, more fun.

Quoted message said:

Do clipless pedals tend to pop out under rougher conditions? Do
mountain bikers use them, or just road bikers?

No, they don't "pop out" and all cyclists use them, not just road bikers.
Check out the mountain bike shoes. I have mountain bike shoes but use them
on my road bikes. Why? They are easier to walk in. They don't mar the
floors, and they don't make you "skate" across the pavement unexpectedly
like the road bike shoes. I don't understand the anxiety over your feet
coming out unexpectedly. It just doesn't happen. For one thing, you have to
consciously twist your ankle to unhook the mechanism. Sort of like getting
out of skis.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't really buy the argument of these pedaling systems offering any
speed advantages (apart from the more positive connection to the bike,
mind you). Yes, you can pull up and push down, but I don't think the
pulling up is such a good idea (a slight twist will get you out) and it
will tire you out quicker. In the end, it's basically best (IMO) to work
on developing a smooth stroke & high cadence. To go X mph will take the
same energy and all of it comes from your body. The pushing/pulling,
circular pedalling arguments are just theoretical for the most part.
Turning the pedals in a confident manner is what gets and keeps you
moving. IMO.

No, you're wrong there, Roger. We all need to strive for a circular
pedalling motion. "pushing down and pulling up" is not circular. Your stroke
cannot become "smooth" unless you are moving your foot in a circular motion.
If not, you are just zigging and zagging, which is a lot more tiring than a
smooth motion. I even think you are wrong out the "take the same energy"
argument. If you are more efficient, you use less energy. Try using that
"same energy" argument in swimming sometime. Efficiency=less tiring.

Quoted message said:

I will also say that I have two friends who are long-time cyclist who
don't use clipless pedals. They seem to do just fine, too. I have
clipless on my road bike and do not will have them on my recumbent . I
like them better on the upright as I feel that since a significant part of
my weight rests on my feet when on an upright, it's better to have a solid
connection there.

Without them on your recumbent, be careful of getting your foot sucked
backward. I haven't done that, but I hear it is painful.

Quoted message said:

Oh, if you do go clipless, expect to fall a few times! 🙂

Huh? Didn't happen for me!

Pat in TX

OK, I'm convinced. Clipless pedals it is.

I understand the "eggbeater" is very popular. I'll check that out
among others. As far as shoes, I have no idea. I can't buy them over
the internet, though, I've got to try them on.

Quoted message said:

Pat....what other ways are there to move your feet on pedals? If your feet
go as the pedals go, then your feet are automatically moving in a circular
motion. All there is left to do is do it smoothly, which can only mean
maintaining an even motion on the pedals, which leads to an efficient
cadence. If your feet move with the pedals, then they are going in a
circular motion. Clipless enable this better than otherwise simply
because you don't have to worry about your feet coming off. On platforms,
your foot could move on the pedal, which thus will ruin efficiency. Also,
your foot might not even be positioned right on the platform, which again
can sap efficiency. If you're wearing clips, your foot could still come
off, which will always leave you more doubtful about what's going on with
pedals than otherwise.

Yes, your feet are more or less going circular, but your muscles are not
evenly engaging around the entire circle when you have platform pedals.
That's what I mean by pedalling in a circle--even pressure and muscles being
engaged all around the 360 degrees of the circle. Feet on platform pedals
are not being used efficiently. In your example above, you forgot the
problem that some people have with positioning their feet too far forward
(or backward) on the pedals resulting in knee pain as well as sapping
efficiency. People who pedal with their instep on the pedals instead of the
ball of the foot can wind up with muscle or knee pain and maybe even plantar
fasciitis. Plus, people who pedal that way tend to set the saddle much too
low, resulting in the ol' knee hitting the chin effect (or so it appears to
an onlooker).

Quoted message said:

This business about pulling up with one foot while pushing down with the
other is the argument that claims that additional muscles are used while
pedalling. Yes, it can be done but this is not at all a natural motion.
It's not any more efficient, either, but it is tiring.

I didn't mean that. Your description makes it seem as if one leg is resting
totally while the other is working. Both legs have to work equally all
around the circle. Of course, this is done spinning, not gnashing under a
high gear.

Quoted message said:

Yes, foot suck can be an issue, but I don't think it's a problem on my
recumbent. It certainly is a problem on some recumbents, like trikes.

I don't have first-hand evidence. I have heard some stories about it, that's
all. It's certainly something to watch out for.

Quoted message said:

Do you have a recumbent? I find mine a lot of fun to ride, but it sucks
going uphill compared to my upright.

I do. Lord knows I've got a whole stable of bikes out there. (arrows in a
quiver, that's what they are!)

Quoted message said:

:: Pat in TX

taddy wrote:
:: OK, I'm convinced. Clipless pedals it is.
::
:: I understand the "eggbeater" is very popular. I'll check that out
:: among others. As far as shoes, I have no idea. I can't buy them
:: over the internet, though, I've got to try them on.

I've been thinking about moving over to eggbeaters...specifically, the
quattros.

taddy said:

I thought I'd give this question a try here, since we have a few avid
cyclists.

I started cycling last year, normally 4x weekly for a couple of hours
per ride. I have an older Trek mountain bike that is in great
condition, since I had hardly used it previously. Last year I rode in
athletic shoes (the bike has pedals with clips). Several people
suggested that I should switch to clipless pedals and the appropriate
shoe. I was told that this would improve the efficiency and quality
of my rides. I'm trying to decide if I need to do this. I'm figuring
this will be somewhere between a $150-200 expenditure between shoes
and pedals.

I don't do any montain biking at this point, almost all of my riding
is on trails/paths, which are generally crushed rock, dirt and
occasionally asphalt. Of course I spend some time on the street. I
ride at cruising speed (I'm not into racing or timing my rides), and
my main goal is fitness and enjoying the outdoors. This summer I am
anticipating rides of 25-40 miles per session, maybe even a couple of
longer ones thrown in.

Do clipless pedals make sense for me? Would upgrading my current
clipped pedals be a better option (they are the originals from 1991).
Are the clipped pedals more all-purpose for someone like me, or is
clipless really the way to go? One thing that concerns me is handling
any bumpy or rough terrain with clipless pedals, in the case that I
occasionally attempt some rougher trails. Also, if I use clipless
pedals I am committed to shoes designed for this, and if I have a shoe
malfunction I'm out of luck. I have no idea how durable these things
are.

I'm interested in any advice, thanks.

I think the pedals and shoes are very durable. I have had some cleats
that haven't been durable (speedplay), but my current cleats for my
current system (Time) are much longer lasting. Having ridden both with
toe clips and with clipless, I'd never go back to toe clips. I've ridden
both on the trail and road. I do use different styles of Time pedals for
the different terrain, though.

--
Bob in CT

Pat wrote:
::: I understand the "eggbeater" is very popular. I'll check that out
::: among others. As far as shoes, I have no idea. I can't buy them
::: over the internet, though, I've got to try them on.
::
:: Here's some thing to consider: float. I used to have some
:: eggbeaters, but I gave them up because they don't have any float.
:: What's that? Well, when your feet are on the pedals, you can move
:: your heels back and forth a little without disengaging the shoe from
:: the pedal. That's float. If you cannot move your feet at all while
:: on the clips, you have 0 degrees float. IIRC, eggbeaters do not have
:: float.
::
:: Why is that important? I have learned that for my knees to be happy,
:: my left foot must point straight ahead but the right foot likes to
:: have the toe pointing outward from the bike just a little. My Spd
:: pedals have, I believe, 4 degrees of float + I have turned the
:: cleats on the shoes just a bit so that foot can point wherever it
:: finds most comfortable. I neglected this once and came down with
:: some knee pain. I went around for days puzzled about the knee pain
:: until the next time I went riding and discovered my foot is
:: connected to my shin bone is connected to my knee bone.....
::
:: Pat in TX

6 degrees!

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: Pat wrote:
::::: I understand the "eggbeater" is very popular. I'll check that out
::::: among others. As far as shoes, I have no idea. I can't buy them
::::: over the internet, though, I've got to try them on.
::::
:::: Here's some thing to consider: float. I used to have some
:::: eggbeaters, but I gave them up because they don't have any float.
:::: What's that? Well, when your feet are on the pedals, you can move
:::: your heels back and forth a little without disengaging the shoe
:::: from the pedal. That's float. If you cannot move your feet at all
:::: while on the clips, you have 0 degrees float. IIRC, eggbeaters do
:::: not have float.
::::
:::: Why is that important? I have learned that for my knees to be
:::: happy, my left foot must point straight ahead but the right foot
:::: likes to have the toe pointing outward from the bike just a
:::: little. My Spd pedals have, I believe, 4 degrees of float + I
:::: have turned the cleats on the shoes just a bit so that foot can
:::: point wherever it finds most comfortable. I neglected this once
:::: and came down with some knee pain. I went around for days puzzled
:::: about the knee pain until the next time I went riding and
:::: discovered my foot is connected to my shin bone is connected to my
:::: knee bone.....
::::
:::: Pat in TX
::
:: 6 degrees!

Sorry, I meant the Quattro's have 6 degrees float. They work with SPD
shoes, too.

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::: Pat wrote:
::::::: I understand the "eggbeater" is very popular. I'll check that
::::::: out among others. As far as shoes, I have no idea. I can't
::::::: buy them over the internet, though, I've got to try them on.
::::::
:::::: Here's some thing to consider: float. I used to have some
:::::: eggbeaters, but I gave them up because they don't have any float.
:::::: What's that? Well, when your feet are on the pedals, you can move
:::::: your heels back and forth a little without disengaging the shoe
:::::: from the pedal. That's float. If you cannot move your feet at all
:::::: while on the clips, you have 0 degrees float. IIRC, eggbeaters do
:::::: not have float.
::::::
:::::: Why is that important? I have learned that for my knees to be
:::::: happy, my left foot must point straight ahead but the right foot
:::::: likes to have the toe pointing outward from the bike just a
:::::: little. My Spd pedals have, I believe, 4 degrees of float + I
:::::: have turned the cleats on the shoes just a bit so that foot can
:::::: point wherever it finds most comfortable. I neglected this once
:::::: and came down with some knee pain. I went around for days puzzled
:::::: about the knee pain until the next time I went riding and
:::::: discovered my foot is connected to my shin bone is connected to
:::::: my knee bone.....
::::::
:::::: Pat in TX
::::
:::: 6 degrees!
::
:: Sorry, I meant the Quattro's have 6 degrees float. They work with
:: SPD shoes, too.

Here's why you need to clip-in

http://tinyurl.com/y3784y

🙂

Quoted message said:

I understand the "eggbeater" is very popular. I'll check that out
among others. As far as shoes, I have no idea. I can't buy them over
the internet, though, I've got to try them on.

Here's some thing to consider: float. I used to have some eggbeaters, but I
gave them up because they don't have any float. What's that? Well, when your
feet are on the pedals, you can move your heels back and forth a little
without disengaging the shoe from the pedal. That's float. If you cannot
move your feet at all while on the clips, you have 0 degrees float. IIRC,
eggbeaters do not have float.

Why is that important? I have learned that for my knees to be happy, my left
foot must point straight ahead but the right foot likes to have the toe
pointing outward from the bike just a little. My Spd pedals have, I
believe, 4 degrees of float + I have turned the cleats on the shoes just a
bit so that foot can point wherever it finds most comfortable. I neglected
this once and came down with some knee pain. I went around for days puzzled
about the knee pain until the next time I went riding and discovered my foot
is connected to my shin bone is connected to my knee bone.....

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

::
:: 6 degrees!

Sorry, I meant the Quattro's have 6 degrees float. They work with SPD
shoes, too.

Oh. I thought you meant we are related to each other.

Quoted message said:

Pat wrote:
::::: 6 degrees!
:::
::: Sorry, I meant the Quattro's have 6 degrees float. They work with
::: SPD shoes, too.
::
:: Oh. I thought you meant we are related to each other.

🙂

Pat said:

without disengaging the shoe from the pedal. That's float. If you cannot
move your feet at all while on the clips, you have 0 degrees float. IIRC,
eggbeaters do not have float.

All eggbeater pedals have float. The float also increases slightly as
the pedals break in and the cleats wear. Their float is also "freer"
than SPDs because, once clipped in, the eggbeater cleats aren't
retained by spring tension. The only no-float option is provided by a
special, modified Quattro cleat they offer which only works with that
particular model.